Myst Online: URU Live Forums

Re: A Few Lingering Questions For Anyone Proposing a GOM

Dudemom_2000 — Fri Sep 07, 2007 9:40 am

Author: Dudemom_2000

Posted: Fri Sep 07, 2007 9:40 am

Kerryth wrote:

Quote:

If a guild is ready to happen, it will happen, but it may not look like you expect. Or want. So concentrate on the work. Concentrate on the "messenger" part. Because without that, the "guild" part is meaningless.

Ahvree wrote:

Quote:

Kerryth wrote:

Let your guiding star be what you can offer and contribute to the community. Nothing else.

Quote:

I would say your answer/comment/advice is worth a whole lot more than 2 cents. - A whole lots more.

Sort of sums up what the meeting wasn't last night. I have to organize my thoughts before I say more and hopefully I will get some time today to jot down some things I observed going on and not going on last night.....

Ruby, thanks for the cookies and coffee and some well needed levity! You may have been dissenting, but you certainly were not disrupting!

Re: A Few Lingering Questions For Anyone Proposing a GOM

Ahvree — Fri Sep 07, 2007 8:59 am

Author: Ahvree

Posted: Fri Sep 07, 2007 8:59 am

Kerryth wrote:

Let your guiding star be what you can offer and contribute to the community. Nothing else.

I would say your answer/comment/advice is worth a whole lot more than 2 cents. - A whole lots more.

Re: A Few Lingering Questions For Anyone Proposing a GOM

Kerryth — Fri Sep 07, 2007 3:39 am

Author: Kerryth

Posted: Fri Sep 07, 2007 3:39 am

It has taken days, but I have finally worked my way through these Guild of Messengers threads, and I just want to say I want Zardoz to be Dictator for the Day.

Let your guiding star be what you can offer and contribute to the community. Nothing else.

Because these are GameTap's paying customers, every dang one of 'em. And they aren't going to put up with any self-serving nonsense. They don't have to. They can Ignore it.

If they want to, they can spread their own news, make their own websites, film their own films, whatever, just as you all have done. Nobody can stop them, any more than anybody stopped you. Any more than the Guild of Greeters can stop any of us from being helpful and friendly to newcomers in the Cavern. The good work will speak for itself, as it has always done, with or without some guild badge on it.

If a guild is ready to happen, it will happen, but it may not look like you expect. Or want. So concentrate on the work. Concentrate on the "messenger" part. Because without that, the "guild" part is meaningless.

Just my $.02.

So, what do I want from messengers? A way to find out, in Cavern, what's going on and what has happened. Out of cavern, too, but that's secondary.

Re: A Few Lingering Questions For Anyone Proposing a GOM

ireenquench — Thu Sep 06, 2007 7:00 am

Author: ireenquench

Posted: Thu Sep 06, 2007 7:00 am

Aside from my dream of having a central website for all chatlogs that includes some kind of indexability (term?) and search function for names, terms etc. that I already described in Sorceress' Archivists thread (don't worry, I'd be one of the people digging around collecting them and submitting them, I just don't know how to do websites and what kind of search function is possible to program), I think the following is necessary:

Just speaking from one explorer's perspective... wanting to be in the loop:
There is an gap of sorts, news wise and especially in game. Relayers are the most immediate news source, (allmost) realtime. So if I am in game, I get relay from their buddy feed. If I missed out a whole day and have time to read, I'd go to UO, if I missed out more (even a whole episode) and would like a more summaric, concised news, I'd go read the UO, Firemarble, Archiver and listen to audio stuff.
So the gap is if I missed out just a little bit, like a day or so and/or I don't want to spend much time reading and/or don't want to wait for the even more processed formats, because I just want to go into the game immediately. Then it's hard to catch up.

It'd be great if there was a news hood or something where I could go and people would tell me immediate (or older) news. The advantage would be that they could give quick summaries, but (being living people in the loop) they could also answer questions about any details.
A lot of people are doing this anyway in game, but sometimes they tire out or arent around and some newer players aren't yet familiar that news-sharing is an integral part of the game (at least to me it is). So having a designated hood to go to that's advertised for etc would be awesome.
Not sure if that's the "town crier" idea that has been floating around for a while.

Re: A Few Lingering Questions For Anyone Proposing a GOM

Narym — Thu Sep 06, 2007 3:39 am

Author: Narym

Posted: Thu Sep 06, 2007 3:39 am

Quote:

Oh, and thanks Narym again for your answer, but I still don't like the idea of putting off would be or wannabe members until some point in the future when the council feels the time is appropriate.

Copy and paste...

Quote:

I have never said that we should restrict membership. Ever. And I don't think we're jumping the gun either. We simply decided we might as well start now, and as we become aware of more groups/people who want to be involved, they will be included, but only when we know they actually exist, obviously Wink I've already covered this. I also have said that the groups should not be given special treatment, as shown by the fact that myself and others have agreed that the groups, if they were on the council, should only have one vote each. Otherwise, yes, they would end up with an advantage.

Again, they only reason particular groups and indies seem to be at the forefront is because these were the groups/indies who indicated an interest, or who are well known and easily contactable. Again, I've already discussed this ad nauseum.

When we discover exactly which groups/people are interested, or those people make their interest know, of course they will help shape the GoM/discussion groups/Poobah Council/whatever as well.

Quote:

A good general rule for institution-building is to decide first what the institution will do

I agree. So, what will the Guild do? I assume, from what people are saying, that people want some sort of central area/resource from whence can be accessed all of the caverns news (or otherwise) publications, without having to trawl?

What else?

Re: A Few Lingering Questions For Anyone Proposing a GOM

Lynnutte — Thu Sep 06, 2007 1:22 am

Author: Lynnutte

Posted: Thu Sep 06, 2007 1:22 am

Glad I could make you happy Marten.

Re: A Few Lingering Questions For Anyone Proposing a GOM

Marten — Thu Sep 06, 2007 1:05 am

Author: Marten

Posted: Thu Sep 06, 2007 1:05 am

Lynnutte and Dudemom, you're my new best friends

Re: A Few Lingering Questions For Anyone Proposing a GOM

Lynnutte — Thu Sep 06, 2007 12:49 am

Author: Lynnutte

Posted: Thu Sep 06, 2007 12:49 am

Thank you DMom for sending me instrucions on the chatlogs!

Re: A Few Lingering Questions For Anyone Proposing a GOM

Lynnutte — Thu Sep 06, 2007 12:32 am

Author: Lynnutte

Posted: Thu Sep 06, 2007 12:32 am

I can be at both meetings, but someone will have to walk me through how to get chatlogs off my computer.

Re: A Few Lingering Questions For Anyone Proposing a GOM

Stevecrox — Wed Sep 05, 2007 11:53 pm

Author: Stevecrox

Posted: Wed Sep 05, 2007 11:53 pm

If someone is able to attend a second meeting held at a later time then perhaps they could come forward and arrange it? This person would need to be able to attend both meetings to make sure the people in the second are aware of what people in the first thought. Chatlogs will be needed for both meetings

Re: A Few Lingering Questions For Anyone Proposing a GOM

Marten — Wed Sep 05, 2007 11:44 pm

Author: Marten

Posted: Wed Sep 05, 2007 11:44 pm

Zardoz wrote:

You know, these are the sorts of ideas I tried to generate eons ago, when I posted an AP-type model for the Guild. But that (or any other idea about what the Guild would actually do) got shoved aside by the stampede to create a Grand Poobah Council, and discuss membership and voting rules.

A good general rule for institution-building is to decide first what the institution will do, and then decide what institutional form best serves that purpose. At last, there seems to be some intelligent discussion (Whilyam's ideas, too) about what this Guild (as opposed to the council) would actually do.

I'm hoping, Z, that you'll join Whilyam and me over at the AoG forums in an attempt to express the importance of an AP-style model (I have the very same feeling). I do not at all like the stampede, as you delicately describe it. (No, really. I have worse things to call it.)

On a side note, and I've mentioned this elsewhere, I feel this first meeting should become two meetings, at different times... because just one meeting is going to leave some people unable to attend... Persons such as myself, who are busy working at 4pm local on a Thursday afternoon. (I probably shouldn't even be spending time on this forum right now.)

Re: A Few Lingering Questions For Anyone Proposing a GOM

Samsbase — Wed Sep 05, 2007 10:03 pm

Author: Samsbase

Posted: Wed Sep 05, 2007 10:03 pm

[quote="Narym"]

Quote:

1) Will precipitate greater quantities of news, communication and announcements from DRC/Cyan (not until official guild, obviously)

2) Will allow sharing of potential news (perhaps GoM, non-publication-affiliated 'reporters'), and will also allow a central information source for news groups/indies to access, and possibly also regular explorer access as well (thought this last bit may hurt pre-existing publications, so I'm slightly dubious regarding it)

3)Will point to various news publications that have stories on particular pieces of news from a central location accessible by the wider community

4) Will increase awareness of the various news outlets in the community

5) Will generally streamline (that word again...) communications in the cavern, allowing it to be more accesible, while still maintaing the indepence, individuality and variety of the current groups/indies.

Except for the bold section. Exactly what my model would achieve.

And yes I know you all hate it, but it works.

Re: A Few Lingering Questions For Anyone Proposing a GOM

Ahvree — Wed Sep 05, 2007 9:56 pm

Author: Ahvree

Posted: Wed Sep 05, 2007 9:56 pm

Zardoz wrote:

You know, these are the sorts of ideas I tried to generate eons ago, when I posted an AP-type model for the Guild. But that (or any other idea about what the Guild would actually do) got shoved aside by the stampede to create a Grand Poobah Council, and discuss membership and voting rules.

A good general rule for institution-building is to decide first what the institution will do, and then decide what institutional form best serves that purpose. At last, there seems to be some intelligent discussion (Whilyam's ideas, too) about what this Guild (as opposed to the council) would actually do.

Yeppers, I thought I remembered something like the aforementioned being said early on. It is one of the reasons there was no fire to post. I merrily thought the issue of forming guilds was going along merrily. Then I find out that there are pending votes and websites being discussed ~council determinations about who will be the council, and I got a little concerned (to say the least). I am happy to see that the tide is turning into a sea of sanity again.

@Lynutte: I have no intention of "offing/shooting any messengers" and it does not surprise me in the least that Steve was the person who decided on a date that came upon us, before we could freely advertise. I will not hold you at all responsible for the date, and ask him directly to move it back to a reasonable date that we can all live with and promote.

Is there any chance we could also find out who proposed the council, its voting authority and its legitmacy, or would that be going a bridge or a stalactite too far? . Oh well, maybe its best not to know. Whenever Lord Chaos says things like "now we are talking," I suspect that the talking is making sense someplace (and no further tinkering or adjustments are required).

Oh, and thanks Narym again for your answer, but I still don't like the idea of putting off would be or wannabe members until some point in the future when the council feels the time is appropriate. I think the time to bring in the masses of enthusiastic Uru guild supporters is always now. Investment is generally a good thing and brings forth a bunch of new (fresh) ideas that could fill in the gaps of the ones already proposed a couple of posts back

Re: A Few Lingering Questions For Anyone Proposing a GOM

semplerfi — Wed Sep 05, 2007 7:08 pm

Author: semplerfi

Posted: Wed Sep 05, 2007 7:08 pm

Lord Chaos wrote:

Zardoz wrote:
A good general rule for institution-building is to decide first what the institution will do, and then decide what institutional form best serves that purpose.

Now you're talking. There's not much point in discussing management until there's something to manage.

Thank you, well said to both of you.

Re: A Few Lingering Questions For Anyone Proposing a GOM

Lord Chaos — Wed Sep 05, 2007 3:38 pm

Author: Lord Chaos

Posted: Wed Sep 05, 2007 3:38 pm

Zardoz wrote:

A good general rule for institution-building is to decide first what the institution will do, and then decide what institutional form best serves that purpose.

Now you're talking. There's not much point in discussing management until there's something to manage.

In this case there are things to manage, but they're all doing pretty well on their own. What benefit comes to the various news organizations, and to the Explorers, from bringing all of these agencies under one name?

The benefit I see is that Explorers would have easier access to all the different sources of news. I hear about things all the time but there are so many different Web sites that I just don't even try to find them. Eventually the important things end up on a forum someplace, or I'll hear about it in the Cavern.

We also need a good souirce for distributing information about events. The caledar here isn't used often. The best I know of right now is the one on the Guild of Greeters Web site (link in my signature), which is kept up to date by Lial as she scans the various fora. I'd like to see this expand to more direct means, perhaps even a kiosk in the game listing events for the next week. Currently the Town Crier approach works the best, but takes a lot of time.