Myst Online: URU Live Forums

Re: Oru Uru

Zardoz — Sat Mar 05, 2011 7:17 pm

Author: Zardoz

Posted: Sat Mar 05, 2011 7:17 pm

dragossh wrote:

We know Cyan plans to finish their story. I think the best they could do right now is to talk with the Grey Hats and allow them to continue bits of the story. While the people at Cyan might be reluctant to do it for various reasons, like they were before with the hacking that's been going on, maybe experimenting with this for a bit and see if it works would be a good idea. After all, The Fun House was a successful experiment so far

Successful, yes - if origami is what you're looking for. But to date, the Fun House/Hood of Illusions experiment is devoid of story, which is not to say that makes it a failure because it was never intended to have anything to do with continuing the story. Which is also the way I see the Grey Beards - having nothing to do with continuing "the" story, but having everything to do with enabling more stories.

Personally, I will be much happier if I never see another Bahro as long as Uru lives (but that's a subject for another day). And I don't think Cyan is capable of giving up control of their story, nor have I seen anything to convince me that handing over control of the DRC, etc., to the rabble would be anything other than a disaster. Instead, I see such huge potential in the structure of the D'ni universe, in that there are so many possibilities for great stories on the other side of a linking book.

But we'll never get there until Cyan lets us get beyond the Fun House. It's entertaining for the moment, but there are only so many origami tricks that will keep you busy.

Re: Oru Uru

Zenoc2 — Sat Mar 05, 2011 6:20 pm

Author: Zenoc2

Posted: Sat Mar 05, 2011 6:20 pm

dragossh wrote:

We know Cyan plans to finish their story. I think the best they could do right now is to talk with the Grey Hats and allow them to continue bits of the story. While the people at Cyan might be reluctant to do it for various reasons, like they were before with the hacking that's been going on, maybe experimenting with this for a bit and see if it works would be a good idea. After all, The Fun House was a successful experiment so far

That would give Cyan time to work on their projects that could bring in money. Like Frictional Games, Cyan is a relatively unknown game company these days. However, unlike Cyan, Frictional continued to create their fourth game, a new fourth game, Amnesia, while they were not in the best financial situation. Turns out this game was so good that they are now a very stable company, can work on their next game, pay the bills and have some cash to spare. Maybe a new adventure game from Cyan wouldn't be so bad. It doesn't need to be Myst, it needs to be LIKE Myst -- immersive, exciting and for intelligent people. But for 2011

Well said, well said! That's exactly what I think Cyan should do (although I'm not opposed to more games like Stoneship as well).

Re: Oru Uru

dragossh — Sat Mar 05, 2011 5:34 am

Author: dragossh

Posted: Sat Mar 05, 2011 5:34 am

We know Cyan plans to finish their story. I think the best they could do right now is to talk with the Grey Hats and allow them to continue bits of the story. While the people at Cyan might be reluctant to do it for various reasons, like they were before with the hacking that's been going on, maybe experimenting with this for a bit and see if it works would be a good idea. After all, The Fun House was a successful experiment so far

That would give Cyan time to work on their projects that could bring in money. Like Frictional Games, Cyan is a relatively unknown game company these days. However, unlike Cyan, Frictional continued to create their fourth game, a new fourth game, Amnesia, while they were not in the best financial situation. Turns out this game was so good that they are now a very stable company, can work on their next game, pay the bills and have some cash to spare. Maybe a new adventure game from Cyan wouldn't be so bad. It doesn't need to be Myst, it needs to be LIKE Myst -- immersive, exciting and for intelligent people. But for 2011

Re: Oru Uru

Zenoc2 — Sat Mar 05, 2011 3:43 am

Author: Zenoc2

Posted: Sat Mar 05, 2011 3:43 am

Nalates wrote:

When a writer has story in their head it has an energy and wants to be told. As long as Rand is this side of the grass there is a chance he will find a way to tell the story.

MQO is paying the bills. But, I doubt it providing a complete outlet for Cyan/Rand creativity. It may be some time but there is a chance the story will eventually be written.

Optimism! Now there's something I haven't seen in a while. I whole-heartedly agree with Nalates, but remember that Rand isn't the only one that's telling the story; all of Cyan Worlds deserves credit for Uru.

If I may throw in my two cents:
I've stayed quiet on this issue (and, well, quiet in general), but I think that one of the best parts of MOUL going open-source is that Cyan can move on to other things.

Now, before you start stoning me for such blasphemy, think about it: Cyan has been working on the Myst/D'ni universe for over a decade now. That's a long time for one story-universe, huge as it is. I love the Cavern and the Ages as much as the next fan, but what I really want to see Cyan do is get back into doing what they do best: making unique, clever games for unique, clever people. That's why we all fell in love with Myst in the first place, right?

Over in the thread about the Headspin demo, I found something that Chogon said:

Chogon wrote:

Brice, Brice, Brice, Brice <shaking head>
You should know that nothin' *ever* dies around here.

--Chogon

I love Uru, and I love this community, but above that, I love Cyan Worlds. For challenging players to think, and to explore! For always keeping us wondering what's behind the next door! They put everything they had into Uru, and it truly is something unique- that's one of the reasons this community is so strong. But beyond a gesture of gratitude to the fans for sticking with Uru, I think that Cyan's strongest reason for open source is so that they can move on. Chogon's words even show a desire to move on. And in the long run, this is not only best for them as a company, but best for us as players, too. In moving on, they can put their time into new outlets for their amazing creativity. Good for them, and good for us.

All of that said, I still think that Cyan will find a way to tell this story. Even if it means completely handing over the reigns to the fans. Consider what they did with Myst III and IV: as I understand it, they drew up an outline for the story, and let the developers fill in the blanks. I think that, with the right kind of controls built in by Cyan, this could work for Uru too.

Re: Oru Uru

Nalates — Fri Mar 04, 2011 5:54 pm

Author: Nalates

Posted: Fri Mar 04, 2011 5:54 pm

When a writer has story in their head it has an energy and wants to be told. As long as Rand is this side of the grass there is a chance he will find a way to tell the story.

MQO is paying the bills. But, I doubt it providing a complete outlet for Cyan/Rand creativity. It may be some time but there is a chance the story will eventually be written.

Re: Oru Uru

Carl Palmner — Fri Mar 04, 2011 4:21 pm

Author: Carl Palmner

Posted: Fri Mar 04, 2011 4:21 pm

Ditto what Tai'lahr said, although I am much less optimistic that Cyan will ever finish the story.

msv--right, the point I was making is that Cyan's story was still incomplete when they had to stop telling it. I doubt we'll see more, but this is because external factors have prevented Cyan from finishing the story, not because the story reached a logical ending point.

Re: Oru Uru

Tai'lahr — Thu Mar 03, 2011 6:30 pm

Author: Tai'lahr

Posted: Thu Mar 03, 2011 6:30 pm

I don't believe we can say without a doubt that the official storyline is done. We know Uru is beloved by Cyan, and if Yahvo were to smile down on them with a cash windfall, you know they'd jump right back in. But, that aside, the way they left it was with an intentional and concerted effort to open the way for player-created ages and fan fiction to flourish. Now, IMO, or maybe it's just IMFW (in my fantasy world), there's always a chance that Cyan will return to Uru and, if good UCC has been produced in the interim, they'll incorporate it into their storyline.

Re: Oru Uru

mszv — Thu Mar 03, 2011 4:28 pm

Author: mszv

Posted: Thu Mar 03, 2011 4:28 pm

Carl, all I meant was that the official story was done. Of course you can tell stories in the game universe -- it's an open ended world. What you end up with, though, is fan fiction, which is fine with me.

Zardoz will have to say what he means, but I don't think he thinks of open source as the next chapter. Open source is a way for fans to tell stories -- there is no "official" story continuing.

Now, I'm not in the head of Zardoz. Did I get it wrong?

In my ideal world, we'd also have story being driven by gameplay. That doesn't seem to be a thing around here, but we'll see.

Re: Oru Uru

Carl Palmner — Thu Mar 03, 2011 3:30 pm

Author: Carl Palmner

Posted: Thu Mar 03, 2011 3:30 pm

I've got some good story ideas (at least, I think they're good), but I'm waiting to implement them for full open-source. There are just too few people on the UU-based shards to try anything there.

Re: Oru Uru

JWPlatt — Thu Mar 03, 2011 2:46 am

Author: JWPlatt

Posted: Thu Mar 03, 2011 2:46 am

Carl Palmner wrote:

Nevertheless I agree that the proper direction for fans is to create and participate in new stories. Of course, it will be difficult to garner an audience for these stories until Cyan officially authorizes full open-source.

Zardoz's post points to this. At least, in my world view it does. I'm curious about what exactly the community and the world will do with open source, and how we'll do it, in terms of not making "Oru Uru" the last act but the means to something more after the novelty wears off like toys a week after Christmas. The software is only a start.

Re: Oru Uru

Carl Palmner — Thu Mar 03, 2011 2:32 am

Author: Carl Palmner

Posted: Thu Mar 03, 2011 2:32 am

mszv wrote:

Whatever the opinion on Uru's story and backstory, the story and the backstory are finished, done, complete. There is no continuation of story or backstory. It's done.

I am not entirely certain what you mean here. If you mean simply that we will never see any more of the Uru story, then I agree with you--at least, I think it highly unlikely that we will. If, however, you mean that the story has reached a logical conclusion and stopping point, I have to disagree.

Yeesha made it very clear that her solution--leading the Bahro away from the cavern--was only temporary, and that destruction was still coming. Watson also made it clear that a viable way to end the Bahro war has not yet been found, and so it is important for us to Write Ages and explore them, looking for anything to end the war or at least protect ourselves. The central conflict and problem of the story has NOT been resolved, at least not more than temporarily.

Furthermore, there are still too many mysteries IMHO. We still don't know the nature of the cave that Wheely found, or the purpose of the Minkata symbol, which has appeared and disappeared mysteriously in various places and which seems to have an unknown meaning.

To say that the story of Uru has reached an ending is like saying that the television series Flash Forward reached an ending, or that The Brothers Karamazov brings all elements of the story to a logical resolution, or that the game series Gabriel Knight and The Longest Journey came to a conclusion. Like all of these things, the story of Uru was clearly intended to go further, but did not due to material circumstances.

Uru's story did not end, it merely stopped early.

Nevertheless I agree that the proper direction for fans is to create and participate in new stories. Of course, it will be difficult to garner an audience for these stories until Cyan officially authorizes full open-source.

Re: Oru Uru

mszv — Thu Mar 03, 2011 1:37 am

Author: mszv

Posted: Thu Mar 03, 2011 1:37 am

The "official story" is one way to look at Uru, as it it with all games that tell a story. It's not the only way.

Uru is not all that story driven, if you ask me. Uru has an interesting backstory, the D'ni, restoration. Yeesha and the Bahro -- I liked them, all the other members of the restoration, not so much. And gameplay didn't drive story all that much. Particularly in the recent incarnations of online Uru, it seemed like solving the puzzles gave you nothing in terms of story. I think that story, as Zardoz calls it, was and was not a part of Uru. The live events in particular, they just felt tacked on to me. Also, as we know, online worlds are always about more than the official story. There's some debate out there on whether games are even a good medium to tell story, particularly online multiplayer games -- but I digress. That's for a different discussion.

Whatever the opinion on Uru's story and backstory, the story and the backstory are finished, done, complete. There is no continuation of story or backstory. It's done.

So -- what to do? One thing to do might be to not play the game, because the story is done. The other thing to do might be to replay the ages as they exist. Both are responses to the static nature of Uru.

The other thing to do, something that happens in most virtual worlds -- you continue via two things, fan fiction and your experiences in the game. That's what the player driven stories are -- and that's the setting for what the Hood of Illusions and the Fun hood do-- we use Uru to have our own experiences, tell our own stories. Some of the stories may just be "look what fun thing happened in the hood last night". That's one story. Some may have more of a fictional narrative component. Uru, particularly the Hood of Illusions and the Fun Hood - that's the setting for our experiences, our stories.

All games always have you as the center of your story, what happened to you, the player, apart from any overarching world story or backstory. This is core to the experience. It's what makes it a game and not a novel or a movie. In Uru that's all we have left -- what happens to you, the player. Since nothing else continues (there is no new official story), I think it makes sense for the backdrop of our personal stories, our personal experiences, to change, so that we can have new experiences, new personal stories. That's a good way for Uru to continue.

Re: Oru Uru

lunanne — Wed Mar 02, 2011 10:07 am

Author: lunanne

Posted: Wed Mar 02, 2011 10:07 am

pokemon71096 wrote:

Does "the ending can never truly be written" mean anything to you people???

It does to me, but I don't take it literally.

Re: Oru Uru

pokemon71096 — Wed Mar 02, 2011 12:53 am

Author: pokemon71096

Posted: Wed Mar 02, 2011 12:53 am

Does "the ending can never truly be written" mean anything to you people???

Re: Oru Uru

Carl Palmner — Wed Mar 02, 2011 12:24 am

Author: Carl Palmner

Posted: Wed Mar 02, 2011 12:24 am

My own opinion is that Cyan will never finish the story. You have to remember that Uru does not really turn a profit, and Cyan is a company that has to stay afloat in a competitive industry. As I've said before, Cyan's priorities, in order, are:

1. Create iPod stuff.
2. Make it 1994 again, through science or magic.
3. Magiquest
4. Everything else
5. Uru

So, for that reason, I don't think we'll ever see the official "next chapter", much as I would like to. If Cyan ever gets around to fully open-sourcing Uru as they've promised (at this point I'm no longer even certain that will happen), we might see some pretty interesting fan-stories, but even those may not be successful given that many fans are not interested in anything having to do with Myst if it is not "official".

Maybe I'm being overly pessimistic, though.