Myst Online: URU Live Forums

Re: Ahnonay's Missing Parts

Mac_Fife — Thu Jul 28, 2011 8:40 pm

Author: Mac_Fife

Posted: Thu Jul 28, 2011 8:40 pm

OK, I'm not about to respond to all the issues here, because to do so would simply be continuing discussion which many people here have already noted are breaching Policy VII on moderation disputes. Some of the issues raised, I've already tried to answer before (in this thread: Forum Rules), but just to clear up a few things ,Tai'lahr is basically right in her assessment a few posts back:

1. All mod edits (in fact all edits) will only ever show the poster as the person who seemingly made the edit - there's nothing we can do about that, it's just the way the forum software is set up. Hence the insertion of "Mod notes" where an edit is made. The mod won't put a name on the edit because it doesn't matter - if you're unhappy with it you can raise the matter with any moderator you can find.

2. No-one has "special powers" here (beyond the regular mod capabilities to move, split, merge, lock or sticky/unsticky threads) and no-one can edit the database (not even Chogon). The "July 20" date is a typo, plain and simple. Clearly, it should have said 26th. Are you desperate that it's corrected? It'll make it look like Ehren edited the post twice.

3. Not every post will get scrutineered in fine detail right away - moderators have lives away from here like everyone else (I've been busy with RL work over the past several weeks and only ever manage to pop in for a few minutes at a time these days). So, some things that should be attended to will sit here longer that we or anyone else likes.

The reason that some images need to go, is that the methods used to get them constitute "compromises" of other products, or use tools that are capable of compromising other products. While the images themselve might not appear to be a problem there is often an inevitable "Wow, how did you get that shot?", and any discussion in answer will be a definite breach of Policy I. In that light, should this thread have been nuked at the outset? Probably, but it wasn't. So, let's just treat this as a "clearing the air" exercise, and dismiss any conspiracy theories.

Thanks.

Re: Ahnonay's Missing Parts

Ehren — Wed Jul 27, 2011 6:49 pm

Author: Ehren

Posted: Wed Jul 27, 2011 6:49 pm

###

Re: Ahnonay's Missing Parts

Artic_Wagon — Wed Jul 27, 2011 5:43 pm

Author: Artic_Wagon

Posted: Wed Jul 27, 2011 5:43 pm

AdamJohnso wrote:

Now where was this outrage for when I got removed from the explorers group by veralun?

In my case, I was not aware about this. Maybe your posts were deleted b4 I had a chance to read them and never saw one saying that you were removed from the explorers group in an offhand manner.

Re: Ahnonay's Missing Parts

AdamJohnso — Wed Jul 27, 2011 5:33 pm

Author: AdamJohnso

Posted: Wed Jul 27, 2011 5:33 pm

For once, the moderators are doing the job right, and you're attacking them? The posted images violated the forum rules, so they were removed. Now where was this outrage for when I got removed from the explorers group by veralun?

Re: Ahnonay's Missing Parts

kaelisebonrai — Wed Jul 27, 2011 5:31 pm

Author: kaelisebonrai

Posted: Wed Jul 27, 2011 5:31 pm

Artic_Wagon wrote:

Different times, different moderators, different rules.
http://forums.ubi.com/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/3471054943/m/5201044824?r=4561012924#4561012924

Different Forums.

Re: Ahnonay's Missing Parts

Artic_Wagon — Wed Jul 27, 2011 5:27 pm

Author: Artic_Wagon

Posted: Wed Jul 27, 2011 5:27 pm

Different times, different moderators, different rules.
http://forums.ubi.com/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/3471054943/m/5201044824?r=4561012924#4561012924

Btw, I am one who hit the report button to ask if flymode images had been "re-allowed" and I now guess that they saw this as a request for image deletion.

Re: Ahnonay's Missing Parts

Main_Avvie — Wed Jul 27, 2011 5:19 pm

Author: Main_Avvie

Posted: Wed Jul 27, 2011 5:19 pm

semplerfi wrote:

Main_Avvie wrote:
Sometimes I wonder how moderators make these decisions. Do they consult with Cyan or each other or take the initiative themselves?

A Mod PM i recieved on May 21, 2011.

Mod wrote:
As I'm sure you're aware, what people consider to be "offensive" here can run a pretty wide gamut. Some things are pretty clear cut, others are a bit grey. With the grey ones, the unwritten policy here is "If no-one complains, then let it ride; if it gets a report, take it out". So there's your benchmark (FWIW) - "Does it seem probable that this would get reported?"

So, then the images might have been reported (don't see how that could have offended anyone) and a moderator was obliged to respond. Otherwise, I'd imagine the images fall firmly into "grey area" in which case they would still be there provided this correspondence may be used as adequate benchmark in this instance.

To me it would be preferable that if a moderator notices a possible violation that it be practice to consult with at least any two other moderators for second opinions on what action may be taken, if any. just to get a consensus. provided that this is not what is done already. would probably be best as standard practice.

Re: Ahnonay's Missing Parts

semplerfi — Wed Jul 27, 2011 4:57 pm

Author: semplerfi

Posted: Wed Jul 27, 2011 4:57 pm

Main_Avvie wrote:

Sometimes I wonder how moderators make these decisions. Do they consult with Cyan or each other or take the initiative themselves?

A Mod PM i recieved on May 21, 2011.

Mod wrote:

As I'm sure you're aware, what people consider to be "offensive" here can run a pretty wide gamut. Some things are pretty clear cut, others are a bit grey. With the grey ones, the unwritten policy here is "If no-one complains, then let it ride; if it gets a report, take it out". So there's your benchmark (FWIW) - "Does it seem probable that this would get reported?"

Re: Ahnonay's Missing Parts

Main_Avvie — Wed Jul 27, 2011 4:48 pm

Author: Main_Avvie

Posted: Wed Jul 27, 2011 4:48 pm

Sometimes I wonder how moderators make these decisions. Do they consult with Cyan or each other or take the initiative themselves?

Quote:

We're all breaking Forum Policy VII. MODERATION DISPUTES

That's too bad...

Really though, by the way the rules are written, posting those images was in violation of the rules. Removing them was done through literal interpretation of the rules. There are problems in granting leeway but I wonder what harm was being done by posting an interesting and astute observation using those methods.

Re: Ahnonay's Missing Parts

Tai'lahr — Wed Jul 27, 2011 4:36 pm

Author: Tai'lahr

Posted: Wed Jul 27, 2011 4:36 pm

Mah observations:

1) Tanshin is correct: all post edits automatically show up as being by the post's author; I don't know if it's possible for a moderator to alter that or not, but I suppose that's the reason they include their little note.

2) You're all correct in claiming that the url-removal did NOT take place on the 20th as indicated by the mod's note, but that could have just been a typo by the moderator. Perhaps they were allowed to remain as long as they did while a moderator consulted with RAWA or Chogon to make a final decision. I don't know why the thread is being allowed to remain active at this time unless, once again, another decision is being awaited.

3) We're all breaking Forum Policy VII. MODERATION DISPUTES - In the event of a problem or a question arising concerning a moderation action, any and all inquiries must take place by PM or email. Posting of moderation issues and disputes on the forum, or reposting a deleted topic is not allowed.

Just saying'...

Re: Ahnonay's Missing Parts

Main_Avvie — Wed Jul 27, 2011 4:29 pm

Author: Main_Avvie

Posted: Wed Jul 27, 2011 4:29 pm

and a forum moderator was attempting to do good by this? seems to have had the opposite effect...
... is it so bad to just leave well enough alone sometimes?

Re: Ahnonay's Missing Parts

tanshin — Wed Jul 27, 2011 4:18 pm

Author: tanshin

Posted: Wed Jul 27, 2011 4:18 pm

It has come to my attention that mod edits will show up as the user who made the post... which puts a whole new spin on this.

Re: Ahnonay's Missing Parts

kaelisebonrai — Wed Jul 27, 2011 4:04 pm

Author: kaelisebonrai

Posted: Wed Jul 27, 2011 4:04 pm

tanshin wrote:

That would probably be because now we have evidence that we can see and ponder... if a thread is removed then it's gone and people will generally accept it with a feeling of hopelessness (nobody will try to continue the discussion for fear of that being removed as well).

Except we have commented. Loudly. And Ehren was one of the ones defending the problems. Like that little incident with Hoikas and Luna - Ehren didn't think it was an issue.

Re: Ahnonay's Missing Parts

tanshin — Wed Jul 27, 2011 4:02 pm

Author: tanshin

Posted: Wed Jul 27, 2011 4:02 pm

That would probably be because now we have evidence that we can see and ponder... if a thread is removed then it's gone and people will generally accept it with a feeling of hopelessness (nobody will try to continue the discussion for fear of that being removed as well).

Re: Ahnonay's Missing Parts

Whilyam — Wed Jul 27, 2011 4:00 pm

Author: Whilyam

Posted: Wed Jul 27, 2011 4:00 pm

I just love how a stupid link gets removed and everyone throws their toys out of the playpen, but when whole threads get nuked, no one gives two... well... I'm really not at liberty to say.

Also, I has all the inside informations. For the good of all.