Myst Online: URU Live Forums

Re: Behavior in the City...A Lost Opportunity

Nalates — Fri Nov 04, 2011 7:37 pm

Author: Nalates

Posted: Fri Nov 04, 2011 7:37 pm

Every so many months we go through this discussion. All the opinions and actions described and discussed are common human actions and reactions. So, if this is new information to you or you have the idea things should be different then you must be new… either young or new to online games and communities.

What happens in our online community and game is a mirror of RL in a small community. We have an enforcement team (police & justice system), vigilantes, victims, counselors, the oblivious, the ideologues, party people, griefers, and all the other descriptive types one can think of. It is a complex environment with numerous factions just as in real life.

We see people with expectations of how things should be and what they want. We can watch to see how well they cope with what they find. Some persist, some rage quite, others silently fade away, and some abuse others that don’t conform to their expectations or ideals.

How a person deals with all of this can reveal who a person is. I never paid attention to who posted and idea as I only cared about the idea and its merit. Then I realized for others who posted what was a major consideration of any idea. As I began to pay attention to who were abusive, thoughtful, helpful, ridged, curmudgeons, young, elitist, arrogant, and all the attributive adjectives I saw patterns. The patterns reveal noble and ignoble aspects of people and their level of self-awareness.

MOULa has changed little since it opened. We can pretty well predict what is going to happen in a given situation. When it is going to happen is unpredictable. Those have been around awhile can predict who is going to take what position. It is even possible to make reasonably accurate predictions of how new fans will handle issues based on their initial reaction to problems.

So, when we see:

Keiya wrote:

Then shut down the cavern. If you're not going to allow people to give others an accurate assessment of the risks of being in game, it is *hideously* irresponsible to keep it running.

It isn’t the first time we’ve seen the attitude and sentiment. Many old timers seem to have a problem recognizing this is not a single person posting an identical sentiment for the umpteenth time. People do get tired of repetition. I am perpetually amazed Cyan and the moderators tolerate such repetitions so well.

The only questions left are whether Keiya, or whoever is filling the role of incredulous, outraged, irate, or [whatever appropriate adjective here] fan at the time, will figure out what is going on while gaining some self-awareness and how people will handle them.

Each post reveals more about who a person is. If Main_Avvie chooses to stop posting, it is certainly his right. It reveals something about his nature. Whether you see that as good or bad reveals something about you.

Since posting reveals you, the final question distills down to how you want to be seen, who you want to be, and what you hope to become. Doesn’t that affect how you post and behave in-Cavern?

Re: Behavior in the City...A Lost Opportunity

Red Gunner — Fri Nov 04, 2011 5:09 pm

Author: Red Gunner

Posted: Fri Nov 04, 2011 5:09 pm

I know we sometimes get unsavoury people in the cavern who can and will do irritating or even unpleasant things. But let's not get things out of proportion here. The overwhelming majority of visitors are friendly, welcoming and helpful. I know we all have real-life frustrations, but I'd like to think we don't vent these frustrations on our fellow explorers.

As I've said before, my experiences in MOULa are usually very good, and if I do get pestered by someone (which is extremely rare), they quickly go on the 'ignore' list.

We have a great community in MOULa, exemplified by how we all pulled together to raise the CAVCON level from 2 to 4. So please, let's not continue to paint this picture of doom and gloom.

We have a great thing going here; let's not spoil it.

Re: Behavior in the City...A Lost Opportunity

adi — Fri Nov 04, 2011 4:10 pm

Author: adi

Posted: Fri Nov 04, 2011 4:10 pm

I agree with the above post of Marten, and Alien as well.

Our biggest problem most of the time is that we can't help ourselves when we feel one of our buddies is being attacked and we jump in to give justice, making things worse of course. And that we get online all fed up and moody and needing to escape from our stressful real lives, sometimes so much we have no patience to deal with our fellow explorers' cr#p. Or way too bored and wanting to stir things up, same result in the end.
Oh well, we learn eventually...!

Re: Behavior in the City...A Lost Opportunity

Marten — Fri Nov 04, 2011 6:29 am

Author: Marten

Posted: Fri Nov 04, 2011 6:29 am

Keiya wrote:

Mac_Fife wrote:
While it's important to be aware that there are "risks" in a relatively unregulated cavern, and RAWA made that point at the opening of MOULa, we do not really want to see specific incidents discussed on the forums: That inevitably leads to speculation and witch hunts, whether or not that is the intent.

Then shut down the cavern. If you're not going to allow people to give others an accurate assessment of the risks of being in game, it is *hideously* irresponsible to keep it running.

I understand Keiya's concern. Still, asking that specific incidents not be discussed does not prevent the discussion and assessment of risks. It is, after all, possible to discuss crime rates, the odds of being a victim, and good safety practices without getting into the specifics of individual crimes.

It *is* important that players understand that Myst Online - much like the real world - is largely an unregulated environment. It is possible that the "Play" page would benefit to have a legal disclaimer about this. As the ESRB says of all the games they've rated with online components, "Game Experience May Change During Online Play."

It is also important that parents whose children play Myst Online should monitor their activities on the computer. This is true for any game, even if it may be slightly "more" true for MOULa than others. I know that parents can feel overwhelmed by all of the responsibilities they have in raising a child, and they sometimes seek relief by asking that others share that responsibility (including the companies that run the games); while it's good for the rest of us to help, that doesn't shift where the real responsibility still rests.

Parents that are uncomfortable with the risks can disallow their children from playing. That is all that is necessary. Shutting down the game would accomplish nothing in the end but annoy the people who enjoy it; there are a million-plus places on the internet that are less safe for children than here, and shutting down this place would just mean an unsupervised child would move on to something potentially worse.

Re: Behavior in the City...A Lost Opportunity

Trekluver — Fri Nov 04, 2011 5:45 am

Author: Trekluver

Posted: Fri Nov 04, 2011 5:45 am

AdamJohnso wrote:

Trekluver wrote:
no one with a sane mind wants you to leave.

AdamJohnso wrote:
By the way, in any debate, calling someone a moron is unacceptable and is just not cool.

I AM NOT A MORON!

Re: Behavior in the City...A Lost Opportunity

AdamJohnso — Fri Nov 04, 2011 5:38 am

Author: AdamJohnso

Posted: Fri Nov 04, 2011 5:38 am

Trekluver wrote:

no one with a sane mind

AdamJohnso wrote:

By the way, in any debate, calling someone a moron is unacceptable and is just not cool.

Re: Behavior in the City...A Lost Opportunity

Trekluver — Fri Nov 04, 2011 5:32 am

Author: Trekluver

Posted: Fri Nov 04, 2011 5:32 am

If it has not been said yet, when these things occur immediately start a chatlog by typing

/startlog

That way these debates do not persist. Submit your log to Cyan Support or the community manager, RAWA. (Or inversely, Chogon) Don't expect Burger King style service; this is a donation supported game and should be treated as such. If sexual harassment occurred there's not a lot we can do; we can ban such players, but that damage has already been done. Remember, it's like the ESRB says "Online interactions not rated by th ESRB." Please don't let bad experiences ruin Uru for you; come back, there's always kind people waiting to have fun. Or, if no one is online, OHBot will be there for some fun and/or company.

@Main_Avvie

I hate to hear your considering leaving. Please remember that your opinions are welcome here and no one with a sane mind wants you to leave.

Re: Behavior in the City...A Lost Opportunity

AdamJohnso — Fri Nov 04, 2011 4:40 am

Author: AdamJohnso

Posted: Fri Nov 04, 2011 4:40 am

While kaelis's initial post might seem a bit off-the-wall to many of the new Uru players, there was a time in Uru's history where sexual harassment and sex clubs were a very real thing [Side Note: I have no idea if there are any sex clubs in MOULa nor is that a matter I wish to know about]. This was several years ago, of course, so many of you were not exposed to them... Unfortunately, the "it's not an issue" posts seemed (to a few of us) that you guys were dismissing the idea of sexual harassment of children in general, which can be quite a sensitive topic for some, hence some angry responses.

By the way, in any debate, calling someone a moron is unacceptable and is just not cool.

EDIT: Sorry about the redacted post I made above. It was unwise in wording and imagery.

Re: Behavior in the City...A Lost Opportunity

Zardoz — Fri Nov 04, 2011 4:40 am

Author: Zardoz

Posted: Fri Nov 04, 2011 4:40 am

I think what we got on our hands is a dead shark...

Re: Behavior in the City...A Lost Opportunity

Tomala — Fri Nov 04, 2011 4:23 am

Author: Tomala

Posted: Fri Nov 04, 2011 4:23 am

Keiya wrote:

Mac_Fife wrote:
While it's important to be aware that there are "risks" in a relatively unregulated cavern, and RAWA made that point at the opening of MOULa, we do not really want to see specific incidents discussed on the forums: That inevitably leads to speculation and witch hunts, whether or not that is the intent.

Then shut down the cavern. If you're not going to allow people to give others an accurate assessment of the risks of being in game, it is *hideously* irresponsible to keep it running.

No I see where he's coming from. If you have a bad experience in game why talk about it? The only exception would be if it was a positive experience. Otherwise it's too dangerous to bring up anything negative because in turn it's just as bad as the people who started it in the first place. Even THINKING about it is wrong. Just let them do what they do and go about your business because eventually people who don't know will stumble upon it themselves. Then a bunch of people will know and not know that each other know about it.

Makes perfect sense to me anyway.

Re: Behavior in the City...A Lost Opportunity

Main_Avvie — Fri Nov 04, 2011 4:19 am

Author: Main_Avvie

Posted: Fri Nov 04, 2011 4:19 am

Quote:

Then get off the forum. Seriously, if you don't want to hear what people think, there is no point in you being here.

i believe i shall. and it's not because i don't want to hear what some people think, it's because i don't wish to suffer the quality (or lack there of) of the discussions present in these forums. hence the reason why anyone with sense stepped out long ago so such discussions could continue without them having to be troubled by them. like how good neighbors move out when the neighborhood turns to trash.

Quote:

Then shut down the cavern. If you're not going to allow people to give others an accurate assessment of the risks of being in game, it is *hideously* irresponsible to keep it running.

this is pathetically ignorant. do you really listen to your own words when you write stuff like this?

i'm tired of hoping that there will be discussions worth having here without worrying about them being tarnished by all the trash. i'm done with pleading with people to leave all the garbage out. i won't let the company here be a source of frustration for me any longer. so instead of pleading and trying to have civil discussion, which obviously hasn't worked, i'll stop and let it continue without me. and i have no regrets.

for goodness sake have fun and enjoy yourselves would ya?

Re: Behavior in the City...A Lost Opportunity

Karkadann — Fri Nov 04, 2011 4:08 am

Author: Karkadann

Posted: Fri Nov 04, 2011 4:08 am

I guess we are just not mature enough to moderate our own behavior

Re: Behavior in the City...A Lost Opportunity

AdamJohnso — Fri Nov 04, 2011 4:03 am

Author: AdamJohnso

Posted: Fri Nov 04, 2011 4:03 am

$ git reset --hard HEAD~1

Re: Behavior in the City...A Lost Opportunity

Keiya — Fri Nov 04, 2011 4:00 am

Author: Keiya

Posted: Fri Nov 04, 2011 4:00 am

Mac_Fife wrote:

While it's important to be aware that there are "risks" in a relatively unregulated cavern, and RAWA made that point at the opening of MOULa, we do not really want to see specific incidents discussed on the forums: That inevitably leads to speculation and witch hunts, whether or not that is the intent.

Then shut down the cavern. If you're not going to allow people to give others an accurate assessment of the risks of being in game, it is *hideously* irresponsible to keep it running.

Re: Behavior in the City...A Lost Opportunity

Keiya — Fri Nov 04, 2011 3:54 am

Author: Keiya

Posted: Fri Nov 04, 2011 3:54 am

Main_Avvie wrote:

i am not interested in popular opinion. this topic has no point and no one stands to gain from it.

Then get off the forum. Seriously, if you don't want to hear what people think, there is no point in you being here.