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Re: Monthly Kirel Guild & Group Fair

Doobes2 — Sun May 05, 2013 12:40 pm

Author: Doobes2

Posted: Sun May 05, 2013 12:40 pm

And this is why I love this community. Due to the timely nature and generosity of our fellow explorers, we have recovered what was lost in our chatlog!

Many thanks to Christian Walther, Korov'ev and KathAveara for helping us out.

Re: Monthly Kirel Guild & Group Fair

Tai'lahr — Sun May 05, 2013 12:19 am

Author: Tai'lahr

Posted: Sun May 05, 2013 12:19 am

Doobes2 wrote:

Apologies to rarified and shokhootahn Rehn. Lyrobot ignored you for some reason.

Awww, geez, the very ones I would have liked to have read. I hope someone else chatlogged and will share those bits.

Re: Monthly Kirel Guild & Group Fair

Doobes2 — Sat May 04, 2013 10:21 pm

Author: Doobes2

Posted: Sat May 04, 2013 10:21 pm

Well, Lyrobot had a bit of a...uh..."malfunction"...and as such, the chatlogs we have are incomplete.

If anyone happens to have the complete log from today's meeting, please contact us at guild@guildofmessengers.com. You will get full credit for the help!

Anyway, here's what we have...to hopefully be updated later: http://www.guildofmessengers.com/en/content/all-guilds-meeting-may-2013

(Apologies to rarified and shokhootahn Rehn. Lyrobot ignored you for some reason. Eeek!)

EDIT: Everything is fixed (see post below)!

Re: Monthly Kirel Guild & Group Fair

Annabelle — Tue Apr 30, 2013 2:13 am

Author: Annabelle

Posted: Tue Apr 30, 2013 2:13 am

Already ?!? My My... I haven't enough time, April tricked me, it went too fast .

I won't be able to present anything this month there's something cooking though ...it had to simmer a lot (more) . Maybe if I chain myself to my computer for the next month (not really, it will soon become nice outdoor...I saw flowers today...April 29th awesome when you know the flowers SHOULD be out by April 15th where I live ) I might be able to finish my project.

Re: Monthly Kirel Guild & Group Fair

Doobes2 — Tue Apr 30, 2013 1:10 am

Author: Doobes2

Posted: Tue Apr 30, 2013 1:10 am

We've got May coming up, so that means another All Guilds Meeting is on its way too! We'll be in the usual place and time this Saturday, May 4th at 13:00 KI time in Kirel.

PLEASE remember to PM me here on the forums or in-game all the way up to the beginning of the meeting if you'd like to present something. I'd like to have all requests in before we start to avoid confusion like last time.

Just refer to the proposed guidelines I posted above. Remember, while they're not required, they ARE preferred in order to keep the meeting running smooth so everyone can get informed and get back to their various pursuits with little hassle.

Re: Monthly Kirel Guild & Group Fair

Rhee — Mon Apr 08, 2013 6:16 pm

Author: Rhee

Posted: Mon Apr 08, 2013 6:16 pm

JWPlatt wrote:

Rhee wrote:
3. This has always been a request of the AGM moderator and I don't see why it should ever change.

If people are new to the community or even the forums or the meetings, they've never seen these requests and don't know there's a procedure or a bot to send questions. They might even arrive after introductions when instructions are given. And it's not like you can set up an easel at the link-in point like you could at an entrance in real life. The imager could be used, but there's no guarantee they'll go look. As far as they might know, it's just a bunch of people in an open format event. So it's really about patient education and letting people learn and feel welcome without embarrassment so they'll come back and enjoy. With cut/paste the format guidelines could easily be restated (by one responsible person who maybe is not already a busy moderator) when necessary without a fuss.

You're right, there may be newcomers or those unfamiliar about the rules. I have missed the last few AGMs, so i don't know how long it has been happening, but when I arrived, Lyrobot greeted me most pleasantly and gave that very request to me (that is, to pm the moderator if I had any questions during one of the presentations and I would be added to the queue). I was 45 minutes late for the beginning of the meeting (timezones! aiee), but had I been a newcomer, I would have had no excuse.

I don't know if Lyrobot speaks languages other than English, so perhaps in the case of those for whom English is not a first language (if at all), this would not be a good catchall. I suppose it would also not work if one had Lyrobot on their ignore list (a scenario that i find unlikely for a newcomer).

Anyway, I'm not trying to fight about this, sorry if it comes across that way. I just really don't think that this partiular request by the moderator should even be an issue; it's just a no-brainer.

Re: Monthly Kirel Guild & Group Fair

adi — Mon Apr 08, 2013 9:29 am

Author: adi

Posted: Mon Apr 08, 2013 9:29 am

I wasn't there, I only read the chat log, and maybe I shouldn't be allowed to speak because I tend to lose my patience quite easily and had my fair share in disrupting the meeting before
Tho I think the meetings have been running smoothly and pleasantly in general, the GoMe has been doing a good job hosting them and the attendees have been behaving well. It may not be Open Mike night at the local tavern (lawl I loved that) but it's not a military exercise either, judging by the amount of people present it could've been WAY worse, but it's not. (I'm tempted to ask if it ever was). A little comment here and there or a last minute addition or someone who for one reason or another ignored or bypassed the 'rules', always spices up the evening a bit and is funny to watch.

Oh and, number 4 should be promoted from last of the guidelines to golden rule #1, im-not-so-ho.

Re: Monthly Kirel Guild & Group Fair

Doobes2 — Mon Apr 08, 2013 4:38 am

Author: Doobes2

Posted: Mon Apr 08, 2013 4:38 am

Nev'yn wrote:

For those who were upset at his phrasing, please don't take Doobes' request to have his job be a little easier the wrong way. He's simply seeking an end result to make the meeting a bit more productive, time efficent, respectful to the presenters, and inclusive to all. I feel this is an a desirable end we all wish to strive for as members of a larger community.

Exactly THIS. That pretty much sums it up. And yes, guidelines is a better choice of word...basically respectful requests to the community from the moderator(s) for a better, more efficient AGM.

Re: Monthly Kirel Guild & Group Fair

Nev'yn — Mon Apr 08, 2013 4:12 am

Author: Nev'yn

Posted: Mon Apr 08, 2013 4:12 am

As Guild Archivist for GoMe I unearthed a few records which might be of interest to this discussion*.

If Leonardo was here, he would also likely point out moderating the AGM is not a "job" within GoMe itself. (There is no "moderator badge" which appears on our forum signatures...Yes, each of those do mean something. ) Instead it is a duty the Messengers have "traditionally" done as part of our madate of ""See a need, Fill a need."

By the same token, when Doobes said "rules" he likely ment "guidelines"...Basic social conventions which facilitate communication between parties....Which is exactly the job of AGM moderator is trying to achieve.

JWPlatt wrote:

As far as [new explorer] might know, it's just a bunch of people in an open format event. So it's really about patient education and letting people learn and feel welcome without embarrassment so they'll come back and enjoy. With cut/paste the format guidelines could easily be restated (by one responsible person who maybe is not already a busy moderator) when necessary without a fuss.

As always JWPlatt, you provide an extra bit of insight some others may have missed. For those who were upset at his phrasing, please don't take Doobes' request to have his job be a little easier the wrong way. He's simply seeking an end result to make the meeting a bit more productive, time efficent, respectful to the presenters, and inclusive to all. I feel this is an a desirable end we all wish to strive for as members of a larger community.

(/slaute)

*****

Montgomery wrote:

I have great need of a Moderator for the All-Guild Meeting to be held at 2pm and 7pm on 8-20...I need someone to manage the Q&A and to keep a log. I'll keep a log, too, of course, but it's best to have 2 just in case.

Also it would be very helpful if the Moderator could familiarize themself with the schedule and during the meeting help me manage the time so all tiopics get touched on and any speakers who want the floor can have it.

I think this is a good example of the incredible value the Moderators can bring to cavern communications. Meetings, no matter how well planned, so easily devolve into a mob without someone to take the reins. If enough people agree to become Moderators, I can see a time when people gather on the spur of the moment -- perhaps a noted person shows up or a certain topic becomes popular -- a flash-crowd, to use Niven's phrase, and a Moderator who is available can be called upon to step in and smooth the waters. DRC visits, etc, would be so musch more informative and pleasant (and frequest?) if they were Moderated.

*****

DudeMom_2000 wrote:

Montgomery that is the general idea. Because we end up where the action is, if we can bring a Moderator in with us, the service can be offered then and there. If it is wanted then we don't waste any time with people having to decide who is going to do it, getting organized etc. and can get quickly down to getting what answers we can to the questions we have...If someone is already there and wants to moderate, we certainly have no problem with that either. We just want explorers to have a good time and get information.

*****

MustardJeep wrote:

I like that idea, I like it a lot.

Something like that is the stamp I can see the Messengers putting on things to make them different from the orginizations that the Guild grew out of.

I would be happy if the Messengers were coordinators extraordinaire. The Messengers Guild is going to have one of the harder jobs; They are going to have to work with everyone else. There are three top things that I would like a Messenger to be able to do for groups in general.....

Group Duties
*Have a basic knowledge of the groups out there, and how to get ahold of them.
*Have translators available upon request. (We have to learn to play well with others, being able to talk is the first step.)
*Be the Ad agency for Groups, if there is a meeting or event the Messengers can be counted on to get it "out there".

There is a lot more that I think should be kept out of the more successful "Messenger Groups" that are currently running, like the relayers, or the moderators tasks.

[From seperate post:]

The two most visable groups (The Relayers, and The Moderators) I used in my earlier example. I can see both of those groups spearheading Messengers Duties, and yeah I know they are only one group really but they serve different purposes. Up front acting as a Relayer/Moderator is going to be what most explorers will "See" a Messenger doing.

*****

Sources:
http://forums.drcsite.org/viewtopic.php?p=43032&sid=f38a536419b594364610690949832b0c
http://mystonline.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=12664

(*Nevyn's Note: If one of the forum mods/admins need to move this to a new thread, I understand.)

Re: Monthly Kirel Guild & Group Fair

JWPlatt — Mon Apr 08, 2013 2:40 am

Author: JWPlatt

Posted: Mon Apr 08, 2013 2:40 am

Rhee wrote:

3. This has always been a request of the AGM moderator and I don't see why it should ever change.

If people are new to the community or even the forums or the meetings, they've never seen these requests and don't know there's a procedure or a bot to send questions. They might even arrive after introductions when instructions are given. And it's not like you can set up an easel at the link-in point like you could at an entrance in real life. The imager could be used, but there's no guarantee they'll go look. As far as they might know, it's just a bunch of people in an open format event. So it's really about patient education and letting people learn and feel welcome without embarrassment so they'll come back and enjoy. With cut/paste the format guidelines could easily be restated (by one responsible person who maybe is not already a busy moderator) when necessary without a fuss.

Re: Monthly Kirel Guild & Group Fair

Rhee — Sun Apr 07, 2013 11:22 pm

Author: Rhee

Posted: Sun Apr 07, 2013 11:22 pm

I don't see anything wrong with these rules as suggested.

1.This isn't Open Mike night at the local tavern, it's an informational meeting. We don't want MOUL to be a super-strict environment such as one might find in business industry, but even so, no one would just invite themselves to a meeting and get up and present something without at least mentioning somehow to the chairman ahead of time. I totally understand that there might be last-minute presenters, but they could still be polite enough to give the moderator a head's-up before they come up and speak.

2. I know I personally tend to poke in the odd bit of chatter, but I always try to do it in a way that doesn't truly interrupt or derail the subject matter. Again, I think we all want a slightly more casual gathering than Parliament or the Senate, but even there most folks manage to take their turns while speaking and keep their comments to themselves (in our case, PM to a friend or just save it for later).

3. This has always been a request of the AGM moderator and I don't see why it should ever change.

4. Short, concise presentations are ALWAYS more preferable. No one wants to spend 20 minutes listening to something that can be explained with just as much detail in 5 or 6 minutes. This is what the questions are for: if there /is/ something you want to know more about, ask. Granted, there will be times where more than 5 minutes are needed, especially if there is a lot going on within one presenting group, but those should be the exceptions to the rule.

This seems like good sense to me.

Re: Monthly Kirel Guild & Group Fair

Doobes2 — Sun Apr 07, 2013 3:37 pm

Author: Doobes2

Posted: Sun Apr 07, 2013 3:37 pm

Alright, while I'm all for having fun at these things, running them can get hectic if there isn't a bit of order to them. As far as unrelated conversation, I don't mind newbies asking around about what's going on. That's bound to happen, so I can let that slide (also, thank you for talking with Skuavi. I would have answered myself, but I was on stage, IIRC). And like I said above, a few comments and applause here or there isn't bad either. It's only when the chat is flooded with stuff so much that what the speakers say is drowned out is when I have a bit of a problem with it. If nothing else, it's disrespectful to those speaking if they can't get a word in edgeways.

Also, throwing out questions when they haven't even finished their presentation yet is not good either. This is why we've always had people PM the moderator and why we keep a queue.

And again, I certainly wouldn't have minded giving face in puddle man time on stage...if he'd asked me properly. I am very open with that as you've all seen. However, having him jump up there without any sort of notice disrupts proceedings, which is why I constantly tell people to PM me if they'd like to present. I'm happy to give pretty much everyone time up there.

As far as people getting their requests in before the meeting starts, that's mostly for my benefit as well as everyone else's. Alien asked before the meeting this month why I don't provide an agenda so they can tell how long the meeting will be and they'll know what to expect. It's because there's always a last minute entry or two...or sometimes several. So while it's not required, it's preferred.

Anyway, these are just my thoughts as moderator. Leo described similar problems to me when he did this, so really, some of this stuff is sorely needed.

Re: Monthly Kirel Guild & Group Fair

lunanne — Sun Apr 07, 2013 3:18 pm

Author: lunanne

Posted: Sun Apr 07, 2013 3:18 pm

Doobes2 wrote:

1. If you would like to present something, you MUST PM the moderator first. We don't need people just rushing onto the stage when they feel like it. Also, please try to PM the moderator BEFORE the meeting so there isn't a ton of late additions and so explorers can have a set agenda of what to expect at the meeting. Requests for time at the meeting are taken from right after the previous meeting all the way up until the next one starts, so there is plenty of time to PM the moderator (usually me unless stated otherwise in this thread), either here on the forums or in-game.

I wasn't at the meeting, but to me it seems like it wouldn't be very hard to PM the moderator first before taking stage so it can all go somewhat orderly? Doobes /asks/ here that this be done before the meeting he doesn't say this is a requirement. So if you suddenly think during the meeting that you also wish to take stage you can easily PM him and he can add you to the schedule. Is that really too much work?

Re: Monthly Kirel Guild & Group Fair

Tai'lahr — Sun Apr 07, 2013 1:12 pm

Author: Tai'lahr

Posted: Sun Apr 07, 2013 1:12 pm

I didn't see a real issue with either Skuavi or 'face in the puddle man'. What was truly annoying was when two people in one group seemed to be making two separate announcements at the same time and the audience responded to one, thus disrupting the other announcement before it was done. So, perhaps you should add:

Groups of speakers should determine in advance who speaks in what order.

Re: Monthly Kirel Guild & Group Fair

Rayhdeeyoh — Sun Apr 07, 2013 10:52 am

Author: Rayhdeeyoh

Posted: Sun Apr 07, 2013 10:52 am

Alien wrote:

I know I answered Skuavi, but to be fair
1) The guy has not been at an AGM before
2) He is Spanish and has trouble following normal conversation in the city never mind an AGM
3) I didn't want him to feel like he was being ignored, which he does feel most of the time.

Thanks for answering Skuavi, Alien. I can imagine he feels ignored often. Ignore him too often and he will leave, so obviously it's important to include non-English speakers. That's why the 'International Hood' initiative clearly serves a need. (Disclaimer: Dutch myself.)