Myst Online: URU Live Forums

Re: Garternay Age Creation

Faewn — Mon Jul 09, 2012 10:14 pm

Author: Faewn

Posted: Mon Jul 09, 2012 10:14 pm

I haven't been able to start work on a Garternay age properly due to some things out of my control. I do hope to continue this project but I might need some help, More so than I anticipated. It looks like it will involve a lot of work and I'm not sure I'm technically skilled enough to do it entirely on my own.

So if anyone is willing to help set something up that would be great. I think such an age has great potential it would be a shame to waste the vast amount of ideas we could use in this age.

Re: Garternay Age Creation

Abjab — Tue Jul 03, 2012 9:43 am

Author: Abjab

Posted: Tue Jul 03, 2012 9:43 am

@ Faewn: Great Ideas !.... You may have more potential resources (Artwork, Story, Modelling ?) than you know You might want to check out the History of the ongoing Garternay saga Giles has been writing here since 2008........presently at http://garternay.com

I posted a note of your interest there :-

It's July now, and I just wanted to stop by with a word of encourgement, fond memories...and hope:) It's no small thing to have brought this thread as far as Giles, Will and Fans have... and any number of theoretical challenges for fans to hook into...So it cought my attention when other Myst avies propose to build a Gartenay, seemingly without knowledge of the path blazed here, or even it's existance: specifically from here:-
http://mystonline.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=25704&highlight=gartenay
Hope this helps

The original Garternay thread cheered many of us up when Gametap MOUL folded, and can be found at ...... http://mystonline.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=14999&highlight=garternay.

It started as a 'Private' set of interactive puzzles, with character and history development, and when Gile's Garternay went "Public", I tried to summarize its transition here....http://mystonline.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=14999&postdays=0&postorder=asc&highlight=garternay&start=570

Subsequently the Giles Garternay story line has been carried entirely at http://garternay.com, as best I know...ask Giles...Giles' ambition was to write an age called Luminesce.

Go for it

Re: Garternay Age Creation

Tai'lahr — Thu May 10, 2012 10:38 pm

Author: Tai'lahr

Posted: Thu May 10, 2012 10:38 pm

Faewn, there are many fine lines and gray areas regarding this topic, and even many explorers who have been around longer than you still don't understand all the nuances of canon and Cyan's guidelines. But Zardoz & Sideshow do and have offered you some good advice. I'd like to add to it, along with my encouragement to continue your age creation.

Part of the storyline during MOUL included Dr. Watson & Yeesha each encouraging explorers to learn how to write ages in hopes that an answer to the Bahro war could be found in one of them. (Dr. Watson's speech in Sept 2007; Yeesha's speech in Nov 2007) You are an explorer and are learning how to write an age. There's no reason why your story can't be that you attempt to write a link to Gartenay. The possible explanations are endless. How can it be confirmed or denied whether or not you succeeded? What an interesting debate it could start.

Good luck!

Re: Garternay Age Creation

sideshow118 — Thu May 10, 2012 5:22 pm

Author: sideshow118

Posted: Thu May 10, 2012 5:22 pm

Faewn, I have a strong suspicion that if you get a response from Cyan, and I'm afraid that's kind of a big if, (although I could be wrong), they're going to tell you what others on this threat have already said: Cyan is not going to sanction any attempt by fans to add to the offical canon of the established story. And writing a link to the "real" Garternay would be a huge addition to said canon. But so what? As Zardoz pointed out, you can still write a link to what you think is Garternay. It wouldn't be the "offical" Age, but it would be your version of it. And I, for one, would jump at the chance to explore it. I think you're not making an important distinction between canon and lore. They're not the same in my opinion. Canon is all the stuff about the D'ni and the DRC. Lore, on the other hand, encompases not just canon, but all of Uru. Every time you visit the cavern, every time you visit an age, every time you sign into the game, you become part of the lore. We're all a part of it. Every writer whose written and Age is part of it, even if that Age never makes it into MOUL. After all, the very fact that you've mastered the Art is enough to write your name large in the annuals of Uru explorers. There's an infinate number of worlds to explore, an infinate number of Garternays, and yours is no less valid than Cyan's. I'm sure Cyan would heartily agree. And who knows, maybe someday someone from the DRC will mention a certain explorer who has a remarkable talent for writing Ages any D'ni would envy. Then you'd be part of the canon as well as the lore.

Re: Garternay Age Creation

Faewn — Thu May 10, 2012 4:30 pm

Author: Faewn

Posted: Thu May 10, 2012 4:30 pm

Trekluver wrote:

Faewn wrote:
I feel pretty lost now as to where to go from here. I'm passionate about the lore, I'd like to make something to do with that lore, Not just for myself but for all of you. To make something that has nothing to do with it.... I wouldn't know where to begin, To start on such a huge task from nothing, No initial spark of motivation because there is no passion there to set fire to the wick of creativity. I don't know...

Don't get discouraged! From what you've revealed so far it looks to me as you have stayed entirely inside those guidelines. Aside from the naming of your age, it appears to me that you're perfectly fine. (And as I said before, Cyan may decide it's alright for you to use that name.) Just keep at it; we all are eager to see what you come up with and are really excited to see you so eager to make an age.

Thanks for the support but I guess I will have to wait with this project till I hear back from Cyan as to whether I'm allowed or not so I can proceed.

Re: Garternay Age Creation

Trekluver — Thu May 10, 2012 12:55 am

Author: Trekluver

Posted: Thu May 10, 2012 12:55 am

Faewn wrote:

I feel pretty lost now as to where to go from here. I'm passionate about the lore, I'd like to make something to do with that lore, Not just for myself but for all of you. To make something that has nothing to do with it.... I wouldn't know where to begin, To start on such a huge task from nothing, No initial spark of motivation because there is no passion there to set fire to the wick of creativity. I don't know...

Don't get discouraged! From what you've revealed so far it looks to me as you have stayed entirely inside those guidelines. Aside from the naming of your age, it appears to me that you're perfectly fine. (And as I said before, Cyan may decide it's alright for you to use that name.) Just keep at it; we all are eager to see what you come up with and are really excited to see you so eager to make an age.

Re: Garternay Age Creation

Faewn — Wed May 09, 2012 11:53 pm

Author: Faewn

Posted: Wed May 09, 2012 11:53 pm

Mac_Fife wrote:

For guidance, RAWA created a post on Guidelines for Official Story/Age Creation which contained his "Five Rules of Writing."

This was originally created for MORE when the expectation was to get fan created ages into some form of MOUL but I think they're still generally applicable: Obviously, in work you do for yourself you can choose to ignore the rules but you run the risk of being called out on any inconsistencies .

With those rules they might as well have said 'Don't make anything remotely related to the Myst story'. I thought the point of allowing fans to make ages was to get more content for the game since they won't be releasing any more Myst games or that much content for it. Why would they want to implement ages that have nothing or barely anything to do with the Myst lore? To me that would feel like a waste of time to the people who work hard on the ages being made because their work wouldn't be as important to the story as the ages already in the games.

Wouldn't it be nicer for the fans to experience new content/stories that are exciting and are of importance to the Myst lore? I mean I can understand they wish to control the content of such ages but if we can come up with a really good solid story line for such an age can we not at least relay it to them for approval? Seeing as they won't be making any significant new content for Myst it's not like it would go against any future plans. As long as they like the story and would've wanted to make it themselves why not let the fans do so voluntarily?

Those rules basically mean that the making of a Garternay age (or related) won't be allowed and the ideas for the story we've come up with so far. It basically means that any ages the fans make will be pretty much irrelevant to the story of the Myst games. The only thing that would make it have anything in common with Myst is the linking books and vague mentions of people/places. I don't really see the point then of allowing fans to make such ages. Ages take a lot of work to make and I'd personally would want the work I'd do to be meaningful to the people, the fans of Myst playing it and the lore.

Of course it's nice for those who don't care about it relating to Myst in any way, To be allowed to show case their ages, to have that freedom and I'm happy they at the very least allow that. Yet it still feels very limiting in light of how much work is involved in creating an age. I'm pretty sure most writers of ages would've liked to be able to pitch ideas for story lines that are of importance to the Myst lore for approval.

I feel pretty lost now as to where to go from here. I'm passionate about the lore, I'd like to make something to do with that lore, Not just for myself but for all of you. To make something that has nothing to do with it.... I wouldn't know where to begin, To start on such a huge task from nothing, No initial spark of motivation because there is no passion there to set fire to the wick of creativity. I don't know...

Re: Garternay Age Creation

Zardoz — Wed May 09, 2012 8:51 pm

Author: Zardoz

Posted: Wed May 09, 2012 8:51 pm

As I suggested over at the GoW, it might be acceptable to create a pseudo-Garternay - that is, imagine a D'ni Writer who attempted to create a link back to Garternay by writing a Garternay descriptive book. Now, because of the vagaries of writing, the chance of this Writer creating a link to the real Garternay is vanishingly small. But one could then cast it in a story of intrigue about a group of disgruntled D'ni who regret leaving Garternay, impending destruction not withstanding, and so seek to return. There could be lots of Bahros for extra drama, too.

This tact might still founder on the rule about not revealing new information, but at least according to a strict interpretation of the Rules of Writing, an Age that is close to Garternay would still not be the real Garternay. And the Bahros, man, all those Bahros, oh the horror, the horror....

Re: Garternay Age Creation

Mac_Fife — Wed May 09, 2012 8:35 pm

Author: Mac_Fife

Posted: Wed May 09, 2012 8:35 pm

For guidance, RAWA created a post on Guidelines for Official Story/Age Creation which contained his "Five Rules of Writing."

This was originally created for MORE when the expectation was to get fan created ages into some form of MOUL but I think they're still generally applicable: Obviously, in work you do for yourself you can choose to ignore the rules but you run the risk of being called out on any inconsistencies .

Re: Garternay Age Creation

Gondar — Wed May 09, 2012 8:09 pm

Author: Gondar

Posted: Wed May 09, 2012 8:09 pm

It's that or the atmosphere was blasted away by expanding nebula ejected from the sun. It happens. Still, it has only been ten thousand years, so true it's uninhabitable not nescessarily gone (assuming time moves linear in step across all ages, I'm suspecting not always, but just a feeling so far).
I think that'd be far more eerie than otherwise.. a dim-red harsh landscape, barren of all life, a faint whistling of the hot wind blowing past your suit.. while the buildings slowly succumb to a mix of gravity, heavy UV decay, and wind erosion. An abandoned dead world. That sort of age immediately makes you start watching over your shoulder as you go.. that emptiness only leads to paranoia and agoraphobia. Puzzles fixed about making the abandoned machinery and devices work just long enough to get past, or alternately to let you make paths (that giant pillar marking the square is nice, but it'll make a good bridge across the gorge of the former canal now dry..)
I like the idea!

At this point I'm now wholeheartedly behind the idea, even if Cyan says "Sorry, that's ours to play with, try something else" and it's renamed.

Re: Garternay Age Creation

Trekluver — Wed May 09, 2012 6:20 pm

Author: Trekluver

Posted: Wed May 09, 2012 6:20 pm

Rhee wrote:

Maybe we'll have to be wearing a Maintainer Suit before going to visit, not because there's no air to breathe, but because the UV rays are a bit harsh? hehehe!

I wondered the same thing, because the opportunity you have here is an amazing chance to utilize the suits in ways Cyan only hoped they could.

Re: Garternay Age Creation

Rhee — Wed May 09, 2012 3:04 pm

Author: Rhee

Posted: Wed May 09, 2012 3:04 pm

Regarding the burnt-ness: The Ronay/D'ni left some... 10,000 years ago, right? Because their sun was sying. But that takes a loooooong time, doesn't it? (I'm not an expert). So while their sun might be getting kinda large and swollen and reddish by now, would is be plausible that it hasn't actually wrecked everything yet? Another 990,000 and we'd be screwed, but the death throes are only just beginning at this point? (speculation)

Regarding the design so far: Loving the reddish/dark value you are using for it! Makes me think of the world where young Polly and Digory discover and awaken Jadiss (sp?) who will become the White Witch in the Narnia series (Magician's Nephew). Stunning architecture, utterly empty. No insects buzzing, no greenery, just a haunting whistle of wind and hissing of dry sand across cobblestones.

Maybe we'll have to be wearing a Maintainer Suit before going to visit, not because there's no air to breathe, but because the UV rays are a bit harsh? hehehe!

Re: Garternay Age Creation

Faewn — Wed May 09, 2012 12:44 am

Author: Faewn

Posted: Wed May 09, 2012 12:44 am

Also the dark secret of why the Ronay left and possibly covered up their tracks could have to do with the Bahro? I mean there is already speculation about the D'ni and Bahro on Garternay.

Re: Garternay Age Creation

Faewn — Tue May 08, 2012 8:58 pm

Author: Faewn

Posted: Tue May 08, 2012 8:58 pm

Rayhdeeyoh wrote:

Interesting. Have you seen Ahnonay? According to the book in the Watcher's Pub, Master Kadish claimed it showed past, present and future of the D'ni homeworld. Whether there is anything to those claims is anyone's guess, of course, but the part of it that's visible is very clearly a waterworld. Have you considered integrating any of that lore? There could be legends about it: a waterworld would have a very water-oriented mythology. Especially taking into account the fact that D'ni is basically a lake...

(Just ruminating here )

Yes, I've seen Ahnonay, But I don't think it means it was a waterworld, I got the impression that the water was more a part of the puzzle, A demonstration of sorts than it being what the age was about.

What I mean is, most of Earth is covered in water and there are many vast oceans with islands but the sense I get from Garternay is that it was like earth, like the map of garternay shows massive continents, It to me felt like Garternay is a Mirror to the future of our planet. That at some point the same will happen to our planet and hopefully by that time we as humans have evolved enough to be able to move to another planet.

Gondar wrote:

Slightly off or on topic.. I'm no astronomer or astrophysicist, but.. wouldn't part of a dying red sun involve it expanding as it ejected non-fusing material, which would mean it would expand and actually end up baking the remains of Gartenay in a nebula of ionized particles and heat? Implying that the result is no atmosphere and no life left? Heck, the book Atrus and company found could have linked to Gartenay for all we know, meaning you need a full suit to go there.. and the book the DRC found was sufficiently underground to just be uncomfortably hot and retain an atmopshere (as some sort of Ronay habitation bubble akin to the pod ages)?

Perhaps someone who knows more about that sort of stuff would be able to answer (the main key might be that the planet somehow was habitable when the sun was a red giant.. was that not their original planet then? Was it a 'stop-over' of thousands of years while the sun expanded?)

Yes, That's also what I thought that the planet would be burning up rather than getting cold, but perhaps the big disaster they spoke about wasn't just that the sun started to burn out but also that a giant meteorite could've come towards the planet, knocking it away from the sun into another trajectory miraculously giving the planet another 10 millennia of sustainable life but because of the meteorite a lot of the planet is in ruins and because the sun is still very hot there would be a lot of volcanic activity and water evaporating causing a lot of rain a bit like what could've happened when the dinosaurs became extinct.

It's why I started with the dark/red texturing it's what I would imagine the place to look like now. A lot of volcanic rock and not much living. Also the D'ni architecture in the Cavern seems in general quite dark in style so it would fit.

Re: Garternay Age Creation

Gondar — Tue May 08, 2012 7:59 pm

Author: Gondar

Posted: Tue May 08, 2012 7:59 pm

Slightly off or on topic.. I'm no astronomer or astrophysicist, but.. wouldn't part of a dying red sun involve it expanding as it ejected non-fusing material, which would mean it would expand and actually end up baking the remains of Gartenay in a nebula of ionized particles and heat? Implying that the result is no atmosphere and no life left? Heck, the book Atrus and company found could have linked to Gartenay for all we know, meaning you need a full suit to go there.. and the book the DRC found was sufficiently underground to just be uncomfortably hot and retain an atmopshere (as some sort of Ronay habitation bubble akin to the pod ages)?

Perhaps someone who knows more about that sort of stuff would be able to answer (the main key might be that the planet somehow was habitable when the sun was a red giant.. was that not their original planet then? Was it a 'stop-over' of thousands of years while the sun expanded?)