Myst Online: URU Live Forums

Re: My MOUL beginning

ThedStranger — Sun Jan 25, 2009 7:20 pm

Author: ThedStranger

Posted: Sun Jan 25, 2009 7:20 pm

The meter idea is nice, however there's a "problem". If you choose a side, you are completely in that side. You can't be 70% yeesha and 30% DRC. Once you take a relto, you are 100% yeesha. Once you finish the descent you are 100% DRC. Of course, you can always change your side later.

Also, my idea changed a bit. No leveling anymore. At least no "mastering explorer" or things like that. Instead, here's a better idea:

Story screen. Yeah, I said it before, but now I really developed it. It's "your story" screen. It shows a timeline: when you joined the cavern, when you finished the 1st journey, when you first arrived in the 'hood. It shows a pic of you. Ages you explored. What side are you, and if you have ever been in the other. People you usually explore with. Last place you have been in. Place you can be often found. What kind puzzles are you mastering at. Things about you. Now, there are less IEs, and they work differently. They will be pics, which can be viewed through the story screen. A pic of the cleft tree and you going inside it (if you began as a yeesha follower) or a pic of the d'ni entrence (if you began as a DRC follower), entitled "Into D'ni". Such things.

Re: My MOUL beginning

Rehmihro — Sun Jan 25, 2009 5:26 pm

Author: Rehmihro

Posted: Sun Jan 25, 2009 5:26 pm

I got an idea when i read the follower vs unfollower thing... Have you ever played starwars knight of the old republic? In that game they have a meter that says weather you are a jedi of the dark or the light side. I was thinking that maybe that would work with uru? When you do a thing that supports yeesha you get a point in the followers side. But if you do something else you will get points in the unfollowers... Later maybe 70% of your points are in the followers and 30% are in the unfollowers or maybe you are a 100% follower?

Anyway, still love the leveling. I just hope that people don't ruin it by making walkthroughs that makes everybody mastering explorer...

Even if the professions doesn't work i would still like titles... As awards perhaps? For example when you've got al the IE's for seeing every plant in the game you get a title herbologist or something like that.

-Rehmihro

Re: My MOUL beginning

ThedStranger — Sat Jan 03, 2009 3:31 pm

Author: ThedStranger

Posted: Sat Jan 03, 2009 3:31 pm

The problem is keeping the balance. Let's say we give journey followers the ability to create and be a member of the 'hoods, or go to d'ni. They also have the journey-only puzzles and stuff.

So what autherized explorers (DRC followers) get? they have no journey, and the journey followers get everything they have anyway.

So there's why autherized explorers can't go to the tunnels or make a 'hood. To keep the balance. Yes, I know, even without the tunnels AND 'hoods journey followers have more stuff than autherized, but at least autherized will ave their own unqiue stuff too.

Notice: one can easily change his side, at any point during the game. If you are autherized, you can go to the cleft, do the puzzle and take a relto book- which makes you a journey follower- and than you get everything that only journey followers get, and lose what only autherized get. If you are a journey follower, you can go to the cleft, put down the relto book on the table in the room under the tree- which makes you autherized- and than you get everything only autherized get, and lose what only journey followers get. All your progress- at both sides- are saved, no matter how many times you leave a side and return to it.

Also notice: autherized can do what only journey followers can do, if he links to their personal version of an age. Once there, he can link through stones, glyphs, yeesha signed books or whatever is yeesha and bahro object, that he can't use at his version of the age (this does not include special followers clothing). Same thing with the other side- journey follower journey follower can do what only autherizeds can do (this does not include clothing or 'hood opening/membership), if he links to the autherized version of the age. He can do the descent- if the autherized invites him. In both cases, doing the other side's stuff through his version of age counts more as "helping", not as your own progress.

Re: My MOUL beginning

Anaerin — Sat Jan 03, 2009 12:54 am

Author: Anaerin

Posted: Sat Jan 03, 2009 12:54 am

There are some great ideas here, but I can see one problem with it.

You say followers of Yeesha can't do the descent. IMHO, they should, but they should be starting in the city and following the D'ni as they quested upwards, rather than starting on the surface and exploring downwards. This would then give Yeesha's followers a chance to see how the DRC is taking over and corrupting D'ni from what it once was. And why not allow Yeesha's followers to have their own neighbourhoods, but rather than their 'hoods being Bevin, let them have Kirel instead.

Just a thought.

Re: My MOUL beginning

MustardJeep — Sat Jan 03, 2009 12:30 am

Author: MustardJeep

Posted: Sat Jan 03, 2009 12:30 am

Just wanted to say to the Stranger, Nice story line.

Re: My MOUL beginning

Abjab — Sun Dec 21, 2008 2:33 pm

Author: Abjab

Posted: Sun Dec 21, 2008 2:33 pm

Nice Response Nath, Thanks; but I was trying to address your claim that :

Quote:

Once people completed the content available nobody had any reason to go back and play.

Some of us clearly did...unless we believed that the theme park ride was just completed, and that was the end of it..

I understand your marketting frustrations too, as a Fan, we all want to see Cyan Worlds back at No1. But I'm not qualified to advise there; but I do trust Cyan Worlds to act in their own best interests and ours, which has been above and beyond expectations in our favor. I see some things I recognize in your thread; Poster of the route to the Cavern, debates (ongoing) about starting in Cleft, and other stuff. My take on the history is that we were'nt growing fast enough for the venture capitalists who sponsored us all last time; Rand said it's tough to build a National Park, and I take it as an enormous compliment that he did the next best thing and let us loose again with the OS. Now its up to us to help make it grow, so I hope we succeed ! (Keep the ideas coming !)

(I can also comment on the Band anology, having known the Beattles producer briefly, and who introduced us to some of the grittier sides of Liverpool.....Its not an easy story. The common denominater here might be quality, talent and configuration control, mebbe..oh, and exposure (of course). But I understand your points, I think. Styles change. But the cost of present survival must be canon as a baseline, it seems).

You might want to give Cyan Worlds some credit for having nursed things this far tho, rather than rationalize the crits (valuable as they are). Reverse engineering the crits will not lead you to suppose that you have derived the the correct history or motivations, I would caution. There was more to the plan than we might suppose, if you research it..and the constraints of realities imposed on that.

If you want to take the long view, let's imagine a world where someone has married Telegraphy with Holography for the masses. People will visit in home settings "Virtually", therebye avoiding the charms of (Airport) Homeland Security. Now marry that to the Virtual modelling world; People will be taking Vacations together in these places...Uru may have a longer life than we ever expected..if code obsolescence does'nt get us. Its a dry run for really big things, eventually, IMHO.

I probably should have PM'd all this to start with, but you put a lot of effort into your contributions, it was worth some small challenging exposure..but we seem to be in violent agreement (?).

Perhaps the distinctions we are making are between "Pull" (outsiders) and "Re-Pull" (insiders). I can only claim exposure to the latter (I are one). You are trying to improve the former (or both), and I'm trying to maintain or improve the latter. If we make both happen, we got it made....... Sounds like we need better packaging and advertisement....Thats your stuff too (Marketting), isnt it ?

Abjab

Re: My MOUL beginning

Nath5000 — Sat Dec 20, 2008 4:34 pm

Author: Nath5000

Posted: Sat Dec 20, 2008 4:34 pm

I was looking at the news article links posted on Tweek's blog about uru being released to the fans and I found a lot of comments I agreed with in many of those articles.

"squarejawhero
16-Dec-08 11:39:35 CYAN - MAKE A NEXT GEN GAME that isn't set in the now sadly bloated, overly complex Myst, using your fantastic visualisation for other worlds, and I'm in. "

"kingdumpalot
16-Dec-08 14:13:33 squarejawhero: I think Myst is the only game cyan know how to make!

Tbh, I can't believe Cyan are still around! "

"squarejawhero
16-Dec-08 14:29:07 They've been basically living off the fanbase and last decade's successes. It's a shame because they're chock full of fantastic artists and it'd be nice to see more non-violent next-gen games. They may need to kowtow slightly to a more action-based genre (without shooting, no need) and create something purely based around exploration and puzzles. Myst V was pretty good and I really want them to do more... sadly redoing Cosmic Osmo twenty years after the event isn't it. "

"levitate
16-Dec-08 14:50:17 Myst Online seemed like a daft idea anyway "

Some of these people are harsh but I hope that their comments dont offend people from Cyan or get dismissed as nonsense. These types of comments aren't worth dismissing becuase these are the types of people who buy games and exist outside of the small fanbase that exists on these forums. I think that this is a good example of what people outside of this forum think about where the Myst series has gone. My college major was business administration and marketing, so maybe I'm one of the few fans here who see the Myst series as a product and not just a great game. I think its important to see it as a product, otherwise it is destined to flounder. Developers have to see their games as a product as well, otherwise they wont get any funding from publishers who only care about whether or not it is going to sell. If they dont get that funding, the game doesnt get made. Even if it somehow does get made it doesnt get marketed well and eventually becomes what URU is today. All the while the small fanbase doesnt understand why it all didnt work out.

Re: My MOUL beginning

Nath5000 — Sat Dec 20, 2008 4:02 pm

Author: Nath5000

Posted: Sat Dec 20, 2008 4:02 pm

Abjab, personally I love URU and I think that it was great for what it was but this small of a niche market fan-base wasn't enough to keep the game afloat. There was no compelling "pull" to bring in outsiders who didn’t know what the Myst series was all about. Sure there were many people who came on to URU who hadn’t played anything else Myst before, but it wasn’t enough. As an artistic and beautiful and fun game for the incredibly small niche market, the game was amazing and didn’t need to change at all. The thing is, publishers don’t care about those games because they want games that bring in the bacon. In the case of MMOs, publishers want games that continually make money and grow and bring in more and more people. URU wasn’t that type of game. When talking to people in these forums or on URU in the past, I’ve said these types of things but people never agree with me. Everyone loves it for what it is, but look where we are now. Look where Cyan is now. Obviously URU wasn't the "dream game" to keep Cyan Worlds up and running the way they'd envisioned it to be. Some of the people here think the game was more than enough, but now we're stuck with only the option to take the server source code and run it for ourselves. All the while, Cyan or any publishers aren’t making any money. I can't see anyone else purchasing URU just to join in on what the die-hard fans are already playing except for the really limited word of mouth that has brought people into the cavern in the past.

I think URU should've been the game that brought the mainstream back to the Myst franchise in a way that only Myst had accomplished in 1993. I don’t think it was enough to create a Myst game for Myst fans without changing the formula that much at all except to add in the ability to sometimes run around with another person.
Hopefully Cyan Worlds doesn’t give up on the Myst series and sees URU as opportunity to learn how to adapt the series in a way that can be successful.

URU should’ve had more gameplay for the mainstream audience that is more along the lines of what the mainstream audience is used to playing today. Maybe it could’ve been a linear scripted story that brought you down yourself into the cavern without linking in. It could’ve had ages with real compelling gameplay that isn’t like a traditional Myst empty puzzle area but an area alive with people that still has all of the traditional Myst stuff spread around for people who care enough to stop and smell the roses. Once the mainstream have a reason to come in and a reason to play the game and keep playing, then Myst would be something the mainstream could get back into. But the thing that would make URU feel different is that while it might feel like riding in a theme park ride at Disney World. People can stop and smell the roses and divert from the obvious path all along the way. They might find that in the racing age I talked about, other people have upgraded their vehicle by finding some chamber somewhere where puzzles and a compelling mysterious story are between you and what you're searching for.

The Myst series is much more compelling than Narnia or other similar "travel to another world" type of fictional series. URU could’ve been the game to bring the mainstream audience back into the Myst series in a way that Myst Island did in 1993. Why are they so afraid to adapt what Myst IS? Would they rather have it stay the type of series that publishers really don’t care much about? What’s wrong with making a linear opening to the plot that involves NPCs and scripted events and sequences of running and jumping and action that doesn’t involve violence? The whole concept of discovering this long forgotten civilization with links to different worlds is absolutely awesome. There should be a game for the mainstream audience that ushers people through a compelling journey like a ride at Disney world, but always offers the option to stop and smell the roses and explore and discover and unlock mysteries and that by doing those things it unlocks other ages with other types of games that people can play.

You disagree with my saying that URU needed to be more, but isn’t it the reason why URU is now practically dead enough that the developers are considering giving away their dream (a project that would've kept them employed). Even if they made new expansions for the already existing fans, it’s not enough for a publisher to justify investing a large amount of money that allows Cyan to do so.

Cyan Worlds has an amazing franchise that has a lot of potential but maybe they are too unwilling to innovate in a way that brings in the mainstream audience. The concept is definitely amazing but the game is made for a 1993 market where people played and loved games like Day of the Tentacle, Monkey Island, Myst, etc... As much as I and others love those games just the way they were, I'd rather see them modernized WELL (emphasis on this) than just die off and become a distant memory for anyone but a small niche market that is so small that no modern publisher cares enough to put any money into publishing a game about it. I would love to have a Myst game that I could tell all my friends about, my cousins, people at work, but URU wasn’t enough for anyone but the small niche market. They weren’t interested like I was. Back in 1993 a lot of those people were interested. The niche market was too small to justify keeping a persistent MMO running.

I hope that Cyan Worlds has at least a few visionaries who are not afraid to re-imagine the concept of what the Myst series can be. Clinging to what Myst has been and not changing the concept of what a Myst game is about isn’t going to help anything. Sometimes talking to diehard fans or developers of these types of games can be is like talking to a small local band who thinks they're the best and going to become the next Beatles. Even when that band tries for years and doesn’t get anywhere, they don’t listen to anyone else’s constructive criticism or think of how they can learn from their experience. They dont think about how they can learn from other successful bands. They just want to be who they are and stay true to themselves, but with that mindset they probably won’t ever become rich and famous or achieve their dreams. Maybe they'd rather stay true to themselves but is Myst really like that? Is Cyan Worlds a classic example of "I'm with the band syndrome"? Are the people at Cyan so offended and think changing the Myst series is akin to a band "selling out"? Maybe the developers at Cyan enjoy closing the book on Myst and closing the doors of the studio. Who knows...?

Re: My MOUL beginning

Abjab — Sat Dec 20, 2008 2:07 pm

Author: Abjab

Posted: Sat Dec 20, 2008 2:07 pm

Nathan5000...said:

Quote:

URU needed more than what it had. Once people completed the content available nobody had any reason to go back and play.

I cant quite agree there, Nath....The gameplay puzzles may seem sterile, once resolved; but the charm is in returning and discovering all those things that were'nt supposed to happen...or were sneaked in by the designers, perhaps...Endless fun and creativity can be to be found....Not to mention learning curve.....sharing this to learn from or help others adds a whole new dimension. I tried to express this earlier at :

http://www.mystonline.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=16064&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=30

Follow the links in the last post there too, for EthanEver's example.

Spoiler warning ?
Lately, I've been back to URU:CC (solo, I regret) to glean opportunity from all the lesser known corners there, as well. Not as many, but some.....and of course, The "eggs" . I never found the reported Hut outside of the cleft fence yet, with Breakfast served on the table behind the window.(it wasnt there in later MOUL, I believe)..I'd been saving that ...... Of course I tried to use the Zamboni to crash the Mountain, and actually got it inside the compound once or twice; my intent in UL was to try and follow the Bahro over the top in it (when we used to be able to get above the top fence), but that didnt work......ah well, someday....I'l be looking for em all again when OSMOUL(?) surfaces again, and they better be there...LOL (likely even more !..given the likely bandwidth constraints..) ..And there will be someone there to tell us to stop, for the engine's sake.

All this is not to deny your creative ideas noted above (and thank you for that..), but merely to point out that there was more in there than we thought. Ask any UL Skydiver.

Here's an example for you: Try to setup the Teledahn cages so you can run straight thru it solo, without having to reset the bamboo controls, for instance...then see if you can find a way to explore the cliffside off the beaten path..There was a couple of hidey holes to be found there too, once; good for "Sardines". Dunno yet...See you there if they are. LOL

Abjab

Re: My MOUL beginning

ThedStranger — Sat Dec 20, 2008 9:04 am

Author: ThedStranger

Posted: Sat Dec 20, 2008 9:04 am

Truth is, in many ways, uru is very different than any other myst game.

Re: My MOUL beginning

Nath5000 — Sat Dec 20, 2008 6:52 am

Author: Nath5000

Posted: Sat Dec 20, 2008 6:52 am

URU needed more than what it had. Once people completed the content available nobody had any reason to go back and play.

URU shouldve been the game that brought the mainstream audience back to the Myst universe. It needed some kind of age with a real game of some kind, not just rock paper scissors.

Has anyone here seen an announced social MMO called Blue Mars made using CryEngine2(engine behind Crysis)? The concept is basically that mars is terraformed and you can go there and once there there are different destinations like futuristic cities, underwater cities, giant race tracks where giant robotic greyhounds the size of 6 story buildings that you can race around massive tracks. You can play golf, dive in submarines for deep sea treasure. Travel by futuristic monorail between the cities/places.I think the concept for that Blue Mars MMO looks great and looks like it might be sustainable/profitable if the actual games (golf,racing,treasure hunting etc) are worth pulling people into that universe beyond just the social chatting aspect.

Back in the day it seemed like everyone knew about or had played myst, but now myst exists in an almost completely dead genre. I think the genre needs to evolve. I dont think todays games are all that great and are honestly worse in a lot of ways, but they're good in a lot of ways too. At the same time, myst's formula from 1993 isnt exactly the most amazing gameplay experience in the world today either, even if it was at that time. Thats the problem with popular concepts/products, usually the first one is the innovative amazing one and then the developers publish sequels not much different to give the fans more of what they like, but often they never re-invent the wheel like they had when they amazed gamers the first time around.

Here's the link to the blue mars thing http://www.virtualspaceentertainment.com/

Re: My MOUL beginning

Rudolfson — Wed Dec 10, 2008 11:59 pm

Author: Rudolfson

Posted: Wed Dec 10, 2008 11:59 pm

I like it. One reservation only. There must be an award. If I can't win the title Twit of the Year, I'm not sure I'm on!

Re: My MOUL beginning

ThedStranger — Wed Dec 10, 2008 8:04 pm

Author: ThedStranger

Posted: Wed Dec 10, 2008 8:04 pm

OK, I got an idea I got a good idea!

Explorers Story!

This is how it works: every player has a "Story window". Remember the MUL moto? "it's your myst story" (or something like that). So, now you can do it in a more orgenized way, and it's also really cool.

Back to the point- one can see his "story" through a button in the options window. This opens a new window:

"The stranger's story:

The stranger is a Mastering Explorer. He had 109 Interesting Experiences.

The stranger followed Yeesha's Journeys, and finished 13 Journeys by now. The last places he explored are Teledahn, the Spyroom and Kirel.

He owns a personal age.

The stranger is involved in the recents events. He usually can be found in Ae'gura.

At 12.4.2010, The stranger met Victor Laxman and Dr.Watson, and at 12.5.2010 The stranger met Dr.Sutherland.

The stranger usually explore alone."

The same could go to another player:

"BobOGoobo's story:

BobOGoobo is a New Explorer. He had 14 Interesting Experiences.

BobOGoobo followed the path to D'ni, which means he his following the DRC or not following anyone. The last places he explored are The Desert, Descent and the Neighborhood.

He is a member of DRC Neighborhood 34.

BobOGoobo in not involved in the recent events. There is no certain place he can be found, yet.

BobOGoobo didn't meet any very interesting man yet.

BobOGoobo is usually exploring with SomeExplorerName123 and The stranger."

Thing change as you do more things. To see other explorers' story, you write "/ask<name>story" than a window opens at this someone, asking if he would like the give you his story. He can accept or not.

That's it! true "Mysty" character development, fun, and.. fun.

Re: My MOUL beginning

ThedStranger — Mon Dec 08, 2008 1:38 pm

Author: ThedStranger

Posted: Mon Dec 08, 2008 1:38 pm

Tweek:

Exploration in front of the screen is different than real exploration. It's less exciting. There need to be some constant push.

MUL is not a regular game. Cyan Worlds need players who won't quit after a month because they finished everything.

So the final word is: constant push. Pellet dropping won't keep people playing for sure. Ayo'heek and jalak dador arena won't work too. Clothing, sparks and such things are only extras. So my mind always kept coming back back to leveling.

And this is the best way of leveling, which would fit the MUL mood, I could think about. And I actually think it's pretty cool too. If you have any better idea to "leveling in the MUL mood", feel free to tell me.

Back to professions: deleted from original post. Deleted from my mind. Maybe titles are nice and won't hurt anyone, but they don't really help in anyway. Beside, no one ever wanted any kind of titles, so no real reason for them.

Good work vid. You finally convinced me at something. But don't worry, it won't happen a lot .

Re: My MOUL beginning

Tweek — Sat Dec 06, 2008 5:40 pm

Author: Tweek

Posted: Sat Dec 06, 2008 5:40 pm

The stranger wrote:

Tweek:

About professions- why not? how can it hurt? I just find it as a nice addition. A title, if you will.

About levels- why do you think so many people dropped the er'cana pellets into the water? because they wanted to have more points, and they wanted to see the lake lighting up. It didn't happen, but people believed it will. As I already said in my post, MUL's leveling isn't like WoW's leveling. Here, you are encouraged to explore more. It's not the "kill 10 monsters and level up" leveling. You actually see more things, even very small ones. When you talk about your level in WoW (yes, I KNOW it works like that, I played a trial), you say "I leveled up because I killed 20 trolls and 10 mages, and now I'm level 75". When you talk about the your level in MUL, you say "I leveled up because I saw the south gate, visited teledahn with friends and saw a skeleton of a dead d'ni dude in the old factory in the tunnels to d'ni city. Now I'm a learning explorer". It's more... Mysty, if you ask me.

I think it can be nice.

I never said it would hurt, I said it would be somewhat pointless.

I am also aware of how the pellets started off and that at the start people enjoyed doing it, my point was in the end is was a grind that people didn't enjoy.

Also not all grinding in WoW is about killing stuff, there is grinding for collecting things for reputation, grinding for levelling up profession skills etc.

I can see the concept you're getting at, but I think professions and levels are probably not the best levels to apply to them, I'd see them more as "achivements"

For example, WoW has an achivement where when you have uncovered all the map locations on all the areas you can play you get a title of Explorer (Tweek the Explorer for example) and a nifty little tabard to wear. But then items like that are already covered by Canen tracks, Relto pages, Calendar Roses and Clothing items.

I like the idea of an occupation more so than the concept of titles, but then I kind of feel that it's a bit pointless if you can just refer to yourself as an Explorer of Archaeologist etc as it is.

I like elements of your concept, but not necessarily the execution which is rare, as usually I don't agree with you on many things