Myst Online: URU Live Forums

Re: License Popular Fiction And Characters For New Ages

Shranexis0 — Tue Jul 25, 2006 2:25 am

Author: Shranexis0

Posted: Tue Jul 25, 2006 2:25 am

I just read the first post in this topic and then skipped to this page. I know it's not gonna happen, but MAHN if it did! That would be like the ultimate video game! It'd be called THE GAME. It would get so much criticism, and it would steal so many audiences.

Re: License Popular Fiction And Characters For New Ages

Cycreim — Sat Jul 22, 2006 11:07 pm

Author: Cycreim

Posted: Sat Jul 22, 2006 11:07 pm

You know if someone wrote an Age patterned after the work of a D'ni artist, say Fahlee, that might be kind of interesting.

Re: License Popular Fiction And Characters For New Ages

JWPlatt — Sat Jul 22, 2006 10:32 pm

Author: JWPlatt

Posted: Sat Jul 22, 2006 10:32 pm

Maratanos wrote:

Quote:
I made it part way through page three, skipped to page four, and after three posts, just skipped to the end.

And yet you frequently make long posts...

Verrrry interesting...

I don't think he was referring to the length of the posts. I think he was referring to the quality of the posts. Such as yours. Meow. Let's stick to the topic of the discussion.

Re: License Popular Fiction And Characters For New Ages

Maratanos — Sat Jul 22, 2006 10:03 pm

Author: Maratanos

Posted: Sat Jul 22, 2006 10:03 pm

Quote:

I made it part way through page three, skipped to page four, and after three posts, just skipped to the end.

And yet you frequently make long posts...

Verrrry interesting...

Re: License Popular Fiction And Characters For New Ages

Rusty_Russell — Sat Jul 22, 2006 12:39 pm

Author: Rusty_Russell

Posted: Sat Jul 22, 2006 12:39 pm

Not to comment on a suggestion, in favour or against, is to miss the point of the forum.

Cyan asked for this. If someone puts something forward that 'everybody' loves, they might implement it. If someone puts something forward that 'everybody' hates, they definitely won't.

Please don't get personal though. You can logically and reasonably attack a suggestion, but not the person making it. By the same token, don't take it personally if your suggestion is hated. The criticism isn't aimed at you.

Re: License Popular Fiction And Characters For New Ages

Whilyam — Sat Jul 22, 2006 12:02 pm

Author: Whilyam

Posted: Sat Jul 22, 2006 12:02 pm

Of course I know Cyan gets inspiration from other places, Lee. Do you think I'm stupid? I'm not some myopic fool who can't think. Please don't paint me as one. But as you've said, the difference is that they aren't clear copies of a single book/movie/cartoon. That media it copies, its story, is not the sole thing behind the Age. It is original in that copied pieces have been jumbled around and put in to make it different.

I really like your idea of having Ages the D'ni wrote have architecture similar to Earth architecture and to cartoonish/abstract architecture.

Would I be so "rude" (which I can't see that I have, but perhaps I just can't see it.) anywhere else? Probably. Why should I argue any the weaker against something I disagree with? I cannot "simply voice your dissent and leave it be." because I come back a few weeks later and see I've been insulted by some sassy or sarcastic remark.

Re: License Popular Fiction And Characters For New Ages

Lee in Limbo — Sat Jul 22, 2006 2:48 am

Author: Lee in Limbo

Posted: Sat Jul 22, 2006 2:48 am

I made it part way through page three, skipped to page four, and after three posts, just skipped to the end.

I'll start by saying, I don't mind the idea. Oh, I don't really want to see proprietary environments and stories that were clearly an invention of someone other than Rand & co in Uru. It sounds like fun, but really, it wouldn't add to the Myst universe in any significant way, and might marginalize it a bit.

Still, I'd love to see what CYAN could do to invoke a Holmesian Victorian motif, or Oriental Palace/Temple motif, or a Hagia Sophia-type cathedral motif, or a lunar base Age motif, or even a somewhat cartoonish environment (that could only exist because the laws of physics had been deliberately manipulated in the writing of the age) in an otherwise fairly original D'ni Age setting.

But here's something some of you folks really need to stop and think about: these ages that we're all so enamoured of? Are all inspired by other works of fiction. They may not be direct rips, but they are inspired by other things.

CYAN does not create these things out of thin air, wholecloth, in an hermetically sealed vacuum, with incense burning, floating in lotus position. They simply rework ideas to fit the house style. This is nothing new. They're just really good at doing it the CYAN way, so it all looks fresh and surprising. But at its core, the ideas are successful because they come from places we've already seen or imagined, but have never seen realized so vividly and so distinctly.

That's the secret of making ages people care about. That's why so many Myst clones failed to impress. They didn't draw on anything that resonated with the audience, and were soon forgotten by all but the most inveterate of puzzle junkies.

So honestly, while the idea of playing in an age directly lifted from another piece of fiction might seem absolutely anathema, really, you're only showing how myopic you've become.

Frankly, it embarrasses me to see how many intelligent, well-spoken people who clearly love at least one thing I dearly love as well, can still be so painfully closed-minded to anything that isn't exactly the way they believe it should be.

And finally, considering how closed so many people are to the notion of change, it surprises me to see so many of them, hurling invective repeatedly at nearly every idea not proposed by themselves, in this part of the forum.

This IS the Suggestions forum. You don't have to feel threatened by these little musings. They aren't going to steal your childhood. They're just people playing with ideas. I wouldn't normally criticize peoples' rights to critique an idea, but really, some of you folks are downright rabid and not just a little insulting.

It's not called for, no matter how strongly you disagree with an idea. Where are your manners? Would you be so rude to someone in a public place? Or at a dinner table? This is a place for friendly discussion, not vicious attacks on people's cognitive faculties. Show some courtesy.

You want your thoughts and feelings honoured here, but you refuse to extend the same courtesy to anyone who has the temerity to suggest something you can't agree with. If you're not prepared to offer anything constructive to the discussion, you could simply voice your dissent and leave it be.

Or is it infringing too much on your status as Grand High Poobah of the Keepers of D'ni Lore and Culture? Because if they're handing out badges and shiny robes, I want to join the club too... although I think Groucho Marx's idea of what to do with that club comes to mind right about now.

Re: License Popular Fiction And Characters For New Ages

tkwiggins — Fri Jul 21, 2006 4:22 am

Author: tkwiggins

Posted: Fri Jul 21, 2006 4:22 am

JWPlatt wrote:

...you gain the freedom to ignore posts like mine when they have no merit.

That's the best suggestion yet!

*plonk*

Re: License Popular Fiction And Characters For New Ages

Cycreim — Fri Jul 21, 2006 4:06 am

Author: Cycreim

Posted: Fri Jul 21, 2006 4:06 am

Oh please, JW, I have no need or desire to be on the defensive. Everyone knows I have no power to squelch anyone's ideas. I could walk over to where you live and pull your phone line out of your wall, but eh, it's raining outside.

I am, however, politely requesting you take to heart some of our ideas that we put forward in this thread instead of just criticizing us for not immediately agreeing with a suggestion that was pretty provocative from the start.

A lot of people voiced their opinions over the course of this thread and you've been consistently ignoring them.

Re: License Popular Fiction And Characters For New Ages

JWPlatt — Fri Jul 21, 2006 12:06 am

Author: JWPlatt

Posted: Fri Jul 21, 2006 12:06 am

Cycreim wrote:

But can we please keep things original to D'ni? Please?

No. This is a place for suggestions. And like you said, it's up to Cyan, not us. I am the wrong person with which to plead. I'd rather see constructive and progressive suggestions here which might fit the idea in an acceptable way, such as actual D'ni entertainment, as you agreed. If you trust Cyan to do the right thing, you have nothing to fear and you gain the freedom to ignore posts like mine when they have no merit.

I'd like to thank you for mostly fair responses and valid points of view, which I do happen to understand, especially about something like Looney Tunes not being Uru. Please remember these were meant as examples which were given about two seconds of thought, some intentionally silly, to get people (and Cyan) thinking about the possibilities and I hoped there would be some high quality suggestions.

What I am about to say is not directed at anyone specifically, but to those who would try to control the expressions of others. Saying it's a bad idea is one thing and something I must accept. Trying to stop my expression of it is quite another. I will not be supressed from providing suggestions and opinions just because someone, or even everyone, disagrees. Is that what you want - to squelch ideas with which you disagree? Isn't that rather like presuming to speak for Cyan?

Re: License Popular Fiction And Characters For New Ages

Cycreim — Thu Jul 20, 2006 11:04 pm

Author: Cycreim

Posted: Thu Jul 20, 2006 11:04 pm

I don't want to be incendiary, but Whilyam is right.

Nobody's denying anyone anything. I'm not in charge of what Cyan does. But personally I believe that licencing existing characters and worlds from fiction outside D'ni would ruin the immersion experience for a lot of Uru players. I'm willing to overlook the linking books and floating statues, I still think Uru has a believable story. Having the D'ni write descriptive books based on Earth fiction is a little too far-fetched for my own personal tastes, and us explorers writing these books, in an IC sense, and having them WORK, is even MORE far-fetched.

Even if Cyan employs hundreds and hundreds of artists and programmers and writers to make Ages chained in cages 24 hours a day, it still doesn't stop being something that I think would work way better in a different game. A game that's not Uru.

NOW: like I said earlier in this thread the D'ni writing Ages whose purpose was entertainment is a good idea. A good idea for Uru, too. I'm not disagreeing with you there.

But can we please keep things original to D'ni? Please?

Re: License Popular Fiction And Characters For New Ages

JWPlatt — Thu Jul 20, 2006 7:09 pm

Author: JWPlatt

Posted: Thu Jul 20, 2006 7:09 pm

Whilyam wrote:

No, from what I read Cycreim said "It's a great idea for a game, but it's not Uru by a long shot."

That is what I meant by self-consistent. Or true to itself, you could say.

Re: License Popular Fiction And Characters For New Ages

Whilyam — Thu Jul 20, 2006 7:00 pm

Author: Whilyam

Posted: Thu Jul 20, 2006 7:00 pm

Quote:

Ok, gotcha. You want the Cavern to be self-consistent and you don't want Cyan distracted from core Uru development.

No, from what I read Cycreim said "It's a great idea for a game, but it's not Uru by a long shot."

As in no. Not in the cavern, not in Uru. Ever. Which I agree with. If you want to walk around in the world of Huckleberry Finn then read the book. It does a much better job than Cyan could do.

Quote:

Would you deny others their wish because you don't like it, even if Cyan was willing and could make both you and the others happy?

Of course not. If Cyan wants to throw away their money on a cheap way to piggyback content from other authors then that's fine by me. If age writers want to waste their time copying other worlds instead of being original and making their own that's also fine by me. You can say I'm putting words in people's mouths, but I just don't see Cyan making a Spongebob Squarepants age. Cyan seems to like to do ORIGINAL things. So I'm going to go out on a limb and say Cyan's never going to do this.

Re: License Popular Fiction And Characters For New Ages

JWPlatt — Thu Jul 20, 2006 6:14 pm

Author: JWPlatt

Posted: Thu Jul 20, 2006 6:14 pm

Cycreim wrote:

JW that's not what I asked. I'm not talking about movies here, I'm talking about D'ni Ages, which exist in a specific game (Uru).

...I really don't see why we should adapt fiction into Ages when we could spend a little bit more energy and create a world that's brand new and original.

Ok, gotcha. You want the Cavern to be self-consistent and you don't want Cyan distracted from core Uru development. You might be interested to know that I am not thinking in terms of right now when Cyan has 30-some employees who couldn't possibly do something like this without hurting their core efforts. I would also rather see new ages in the true context of Uru. However, I am really thinking in terms of where Cyan would not have to give up one thing to do another. Rand said in his last THM they have around 5 other projects that might never see the light of day, but they would like to do if they get the chance. So certainly they would also like to get to a place where development restictions are lifted by success.

My thoughts on this topic are assuming Cyan's success is such that they can hire the people necessary to publish at will. That's not realistic now. But it might be later, cautious optimism aside. I don't mean an age per month either. If it takes them 6 months with 30 people to publish a major age, or maybe 75 people to maintain a monthly pipeline of major ages, let's add a demand-based hiring system. With a few hundred people, and the success that implies, Cyan can implement things not according to current financial restrictions, but according to what their subscribers would like to have. Assume a good return on investment because of that work.

Now, anything I and others ask for does not take away from your experience or reduce the amount of new content you are expecting. Would you deny others their wish because you don't like it, even if Cyan was willing and could make both you and the others happy? I assert that D'ni could believably write entertainment ages. I doubt they were all stolid, boring people without imagination and a need for fun.

While ages created from contemporary fiction obviously would not have been created by them, it is possible they would have left similar work behind for contemporary age writers to learn from. These contemporary writers, perhaps even renegades according to the Uru storyline, could write ages based upon our fiction. These ages could be direct from Cyan or fan-created - it doesn't matter, as long as they are done well. The books could end up in a library, if not The Library. Maybe they'd be off the path, hard to find, or on a back shelf so they would not intrude on your enjoyment of Uru, but would be available to those of us who would enjoy such a thing.

Re: License Popular Fiction And Characters For New Ages

Cycreim — Thu Jul 20, 2006 5:04 pm

Author: Cycreim

Posted: Thu Jul 20, 2006 5:04 pm

JW that's not what I asked. I'm not talking about movies here, I'm talking about D'ni Ages, which exist in a specific game (Uru).

I realize that remaking a work of fiction into another format (a movie into a book, a book into a movie, a movie into a video game, a play into a musical, what have you) is a valid form of recontextualization.

Here, let me put this another way: why Uru? Why would you, JW, or anyone else who wants to answer, want to create an Age that's based on an existing work, one that's unrelated to Uru, and have it exist within the D'ni universe, so to speak?

I have a preference for original worlds in Uru for various reasons, and call me insensitive but I really don't see why we should adapt fiction into Ages when we could spend a little bit more energy and create a world that's brand new and original. I mean sure it's a novel idea, no pun intended, to have people be able to jump from Transylvania to Never Never Land with their friends.

But I'm gonna have to parrot the first reply to this topic. What darkstar said. It's a great idea for a game, but it's not Uru by a long shot.