Myst Online: URU Live Forums

Re: Vista - Some tips

Waethorn — Thu Feb 22, 2007 12:25 am

Author: Waethorn

Posted: Thu Feb 22, 2007 12:25 am

There was actually a reason for that. The only sound hardware that was doing it properly within all the hardware acceleration requirements that Microsoft put forth was Creative cards. Other audio processors (which are almost all AC'97 or HD Audio codecs and processors) don't fulfill the hardware acceleration requirements, nor do they offset nearly enough resources normally processed by the CPU. In most cases, the hardware acceleration was detrimental to audio because the hardware was limiting the number of audio channels while acceleration was turned on. To put it straight, in most cases it's better to use the CPU because a) faster CPU's are able to handle multichannel audio with little to no bottleneck or performance consumption, and b) Microsoft wanted to streamline DirectSound by taking out 3rd-party code ie. EAX libraries, to improve latency issues for audio applications (some programs support ASIO, but you need special drivers for it, which some hardware vendors don't include, so now you can get extremely low latency even if you can't get ASIO drivers for your hardware - Cakewalk and Cubase are really great with the new DirectSound system). For the number of people actually concerned with EAX in games will be using Creative sound cards, and they'll be using EAX Advanced HD. Creative has NOT licensed out EAX Advanced HD (EAX3+) to 3rd parties, and they themselves have deprecated EAX 1 & 2. Some older games that use DirectSound3D with EAX won't enable EAX Environmental FX in Windows Vista. Most games that have the Sound Blaster certification tag will be running on OpenAL anyway, so they'll feature EAX without any problems. Hardware acceleration with EAX on non-Creative cards is nothing special anyway, as URU and many other games don't even support it properly even though they DO use OpenAL. If you want EAX Advanced HD and real hardware acceleration, buy a Creative Sound Blaster X-Fi.

Re: Vista - Some tips

Tiran — Thu Feb 22, 2007 12:02 am

Author: Tiran

Posted: Thu Feb 22, 2007 12:02 am

Yeah

Microsoft has removed the hardware acceleration for sound card from DirectX 10. http://openal.org/openal_vista.html

Re: Vista - Some tips

Paradox — Wed Feb 21, 2007 11:56 pm

Author: Paradox

Posted: Wed Feb 21, 2007 11:56 pm

Actually, DirectSound doesn't work well on Vista. EAX is completely obsolete.

It's a good thing Uru Live is using OpenAL, rather than the DirectSound that it used previously.

Re: Vista - Some tips

Kirk — Wed Feb 21, 2007 2:22 pm

Author: Kirk

Posted: Wed Feb 21, 2007 2:22 pm

Actually, in contrary to OpenGL, OpenAL is/was quite often used. Only "recently" DirectX got it's DirectSound stuff replaced with something new and better, but it only runs on Windows XP and higher :/

Re: Vista - Some tips

Tiran — Wed Feb 21, 2007 2:04 pm

Author: Tiran

Posted: Wed Feb 21, 2007 2:04 pm

I really, really, REALLY appreciate that you are trying to help newbies and people with technical issues. You have fair knowledge and you are doing a great job. Thank you very much!

But please keep it technical and don't sound like a MS salesman or the OS war will start again. And can we agree that nobody promotes Vista until MOUL and GT officially support Vista? Thx

Re: Vista - Some tips

Waethorn — Wed Feb 21, 2007 5:17 am

Author: Waethorn

Posted: Wed Feb 21, 2007 5:17 am

Done and done. No more public posts on OS rants - I'm keeping that to PM's. Anybody looking for info on Windows Vista compatibility however, will still find I'll offer whatever help I can.

Re: Vista - Some tips

Tiran — Wed Feb 21, 2007 2:58 am

Author: Tiran

Posted: Wed Feb 21, 2007 2:58 am

Hey guys! Stop the OS war. There is no way around Windows until game manufacturs are starting to use open standards like OpenGL and OpenAL instead of propitary DirectX.

Re: see the other topid

DarK — Wed Feb 21, 2007 2:34 am

Author: DarK

Posted: Wed Feb 21, 2007 2:34 am

Quote:

That's just fine, but the majority of hardware and software vendors aren't? …

Sun Microsystems: http://www.google.co.uk/search?hl=en&q=Sun+Linux&meta=
Dell: http://www.google.co.uk/search?hl=en&q=Dell+Linux&meta=
HP: http://www.google.co.uk/search?hl=en&q=HP+linux&meta=

To name a few, to be honest more vendors support Linux than Mac OS, and even if there is no vendor support for hardware from the manufacturer, you usually will find an open source alternative

CUPS (Printers): http://www.cups.org
TI Wireless: http://acx100.sourceforge.net/
Sane (Scanners and Cameras): http://www.sane-project.org

Linux is all there provided for free and you’re not waiting on vendors to supply updates, and if you have the knowledge you can fix it yourself and help others, the source code is out there.

There is demand for linux; you just don’t see it over all the Microsoft Hoopla http://www.getthefacts.com for example

Quote:

there are a number of downsides to using it over commercial software, including legal issues with developing commercial software from code that's licensed under the GNU General Software License. The BSD license offers much more flexibility with Open Source code in respects to commercial software, but this is not the space to argue that.

Well guess is should not be argued here, but in short shouldn’t commercial software companies write their own code, instead of stealing the work that others have done in their spare time, I mean commercial software companies pay people, correct ?!

Quote:

DarK wrote:
I said IE 7, you’re ranting about vista, sure you know IE 7 was out before vista ?!

Yes I did, and all of the security issues you mentioned were never patched because they only require a bit of common sense from the user. This is Microsoft's patch policy. If you can make a point to say "Only visit trusted websites" or "Only open files from trusted sources" then common sense will prevail.

Will leave this alone, because it’s totally strayed from the point; however my first post is an exaggeration that information on the vulnerability was released “an hour later” after IE 7 went live
(Oct 18 2006: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_Internet_Explorer#Version_7),

however from this source :

http://secunia.com/advisories/22477/ dated 2006-10-19

The vulnerability was released the following day, and the solution is to “Disable active scripting support.”, now a question. Why program something into the application if you are just going to disable it so you can keep your system secure?!

To me that’s adding bloat to the program, and forcing you to disable something you might otherwise need.

Turning it on when you’re in a trusted zone? How do you 100% know to trust that zone if it’s on the internet. Many sites get hi-jacked and used maliciously every day, who to say my banks site is secured?!

In my eyes you either patch the problem, or rip the feature out totally.

Quote:

Windows Fundamentals for Legacy PC's is a far superior method to this, but it was meant as a joke in all honesty. I use Windows Small Business Server 2003 R2 to run my operations here. I operate a small computer store.

I use Slackware Linux for my services, I run a Web development server, so MySQL. Apache, PHP. A proxy server aka squid, to protect the outside world when I’m disassembling viruses for signature writing. Samba services for the house, including a windows domain, shares and printer services (via cups). SMTP services using Postfix, pop3 services using teapoper, In the past I’ve also run game servers, team speak servers and such.

All this on a AMD Duron 1.6 Ghz, 512 Mb DDR 333 Ram, the server also has 1.1 TB storage space, spread over SATA and IDE Drives, and at times I've had to replace these parts over the years.

The orginal server was a Pentium 100 with 32 Mb ram, and ran just SMTP, POP3, and Web (apache, mysql, php), however it ran reliably (though a little slugish on large SQL Querries), but it ran, and was secure, could'nt say the same for windows.

Linux got it right from the start, its taken microsoft 7 illterations for windows to get some where close!

The server has always been responsive, and as I’ve said it can be restored from a floppy disk with ease.

How much do you pay for the windows licence, and do you need to re-new it for support reasons?

But Linux, yes you loose that support safety net, but with no licence fee to pay, you can support and additional identical server as a backup with nightly copy’s to the other machine and you have near 100% redundancy, though it depends on how you want to look at it.

For a business there are pro’s and con’s on both sides.

Quote:

That's a mistake! Everybody that administers any operating system will tell you that running as an admin during normal use is a huge security risk. That goes

That was the point I was trying to make, however there are times when you need root access on any system, such as services and machine recovery!

From looking at Microsoft’s Least privileged user approach, firstly its about time they implemented it, but am I going to need to enter a password every time I need to access the control panel?!

The one thing about Linux and Mac OS X machines I like is the key chains; does Microsoft have a clone for vista, and does it work well?!

I administer machines as part of my job and the one thing that gets on my wick when trying to fault find is typing passwords again and again to access information needed to fix the machine.

Quote:

With the added security features, it's a good upgrade for anybody. Sticking with Windows XP when you have a more secure update that will run any current off-the-shelf hardware and software is just building in obsolescence. Besides that, Windows XP's free support ends at the end of 2007 anyway, so you won't be able to get security and bug fixes after that. Windows Vista, on the other hand, will have free support (and updates) for the next 5 years. Obviously being that it's commercial software you might not understand this whole concept of a support lifecycle though.

Home support doesn’t bother me so much, the instant I can switch to Linux, I’m there, Uru is the only thing keeping me on windows at the moment, and even now I’m considering using wine, the DirectX support has come on in leaps and bounds over the last year or so.

Quote:

Did you mention support for hardware and software? How about Linux vendor support costs? What about a lesson on how to recompile the kernel to add in new

Google is your friend there and they are plenty of pages on how to compile a kernel, Gentoo and other distros will now even do it for you with a few simple commands.

Quote:

DarK wrote:
Personally, Vista can die!! And Microsoft seems to be doing that themselves, so yey for that!!!

*shrug* Just another troll....and I thought this forum would be different.

Actually it’s not trolling but a personal opinion, hence the word “Personally”

I’m not keen on moving to Vista, and the reasons for this I hopefully have made clear

Why pay for something half-assed, if you can get something working and correct for free!

Re: Vista - Some tips

Waethorn — Tue Feb 20, 2007 10:05 pm

Author: Waethorn

Posted: Tue Feb 20, 2007 10:05 pm

Marcello wrote:

Ok I will keep that in mind. Hopefully a patch like that is issued soon. I don't like workarounds

Me neither.

Re: Vista - Some tips

Marcello — Tue Feb 20, 2007 9:52 pm

Author: Marcello

Posted: Tue Feb 20, 2007 9:52 pm

Ok I will keep that in mind. Hopefully a patch like that is issued soon. I don't like workarounds

Re: Vista - Some tips

Waethorn — Tue Feb 20, 2007 8:44 pm

Author: Waethorn

Posted: Tue Feb 20, 2007 8:44 pm

Marcello wrote:

Just installed Vista (Home Premium) on my laptop and installed MO:UL stand alone app (not through Gametap because I'm connecting from The Netherlands). First time round it asked for Ageia PhysX. Installed it without a problem. Put MO:UL on Windows 98/ME compatibility and that was it. MO:UL runs fine without any problems.

(I did try without W98/ME comp off course, but that was definitely a no go.)

Nice! Don't forget that Cyan will be pushing out a Vista-compatible patch that negates the need to set the compatibility mode in the future. Likely it's something to do with the emulation of Windows security functionality (or lack thereof) from previous versions. They may also need to change the way URU plays with Vista's new security privilege levels so that the game doesn't raise the user privilege beyond that of a standard user. This is the way Mac and UNIX/Linux software is often designed - it needs an administrator to install, but normal operations don't require an administrator to function unless it's a system function or some kind of operation that affects other users. Windows XP didn't have that kind of security. Anybody that works with Mac OSX or UNIX/Linux securely will say that the SAFE way to run any kind of computer is to use only standard user credentials for day-to-day tasks. This is what Microsoft has done with Windows Vista, and although it's a big change for Windows XP users, Mac and UNIX/Linux users have seen this for some years now.

Re: Vista - Some tips

Waethorn — Tue Feb 20, 2007 8:32 pm

Author: Waethorn

Posted: Tue Feb 20, 2007 8:32 pm

ToriaURU wrote:

Hmm, get the facts.com huh? Written by Microsoft, huh? Really "unbiased".

I don't need to read anything "written by Microsoft" - the customer testimonials on that page speak volumes. Microsoft was also recently rated the highest for corporate customer satisfaction, too.

ToriaURU wrote:

Microsoft has promised to support it for at least another five years

They'll support it, but you have to pay for support. Consumer versions of Windows previously would end their support lifecycle immediately after their first 5 years, whereas business versions (ie. Windows XP Professional, obtained through Volume Licensing channels) would have an extended pay-per-incident support cycle for an additional 5 years. This "promise" that you mention just initiates, for the first time, a payed extended support lifecycle policy for consumer versions of Windows. I didn't mention otherwise. I only mentioned that free support would end, and with it, security and bug fixes for the general public. For patches relating to compatibility issues, those will be addressed during extended support but will only be given out after a) paying for a support incident, and b) going through a troubleshooting process with Microsoft tech agents to determine if the patch would actually help in your situation.

So as I said before, after 2007, Windows XP will not longer be a good choice for those that want a secure computing experience. This is the same as if you had a Windows 98 computer after 2002 (which is the year that security fixes ended for it). Even now, Windows Vista is still a better choice. The Black Hat conventioners were even impressed by Windows Vista's new security functionality. The Black Hat forum is where the hacker elite gather to discuss computer security and showcase discovered security holes in software.

Re: Vista - Some tips

Marcello — Tue Feb 20, 2007 8:23 pm

Author: Marcello

Posted: Tue Feb 20, 2007 8:23 pm

Just installed Vista (Home Premium) on my laptop and installed MO:UL stand alone app (not through Gametap because I'm connecting from The Netherlands). First time round it asked for Ageia PhysX. Installed it without a problem. Put MO:UL on Windows 98/ME compatibility and that was it. MO:UL runs fine without any problems.

(I did try without W98/ME comp off course, but that was definitely a no go.)

Re: Vista - Some tips

ToriaURU — Tue Feb 20, 2007 8:20 pm

Author: ToriaURU

Posted: Tue Feb 20, 2007 8:20 pm

Hmm, get the facts.com huh? Written by Microsoft, huh? Really "unbiased". I'd rather get the facts from a Canoe Techology report link

That sums it thusly: The bottom line is there's simply no logical reason to rush into Vista. Windows XP is a robust and stable operating system, and Microsoft has promised to support it for at least another five years. Right now there are scant few things you can do with Vista that you can't do with Windows XP plus a handful of third-party applications. Or - dare I say it - with a Mac.

If that's calling me a "FUD" artist, or a "panic-stricken" person, then I'd think again.

Re: see the other topid

Waethorn — Tue Feb 20, 2007 7:34 pm

Author: Waethorn

Posted: Tue Feb 20, 2007 7:34 pm

DarK wrote:

I'll direct you here http://www.linux.org/, and then ask you to read the first paragraph. Emphasis is mine

That's just fine, but the majority of hardware and software vendors aren't supporting it because there is little to no demand for it, and there are a number of downsides to using it over commercial software, including legal issues with developing commercial software from code that's licensed under the GNU General Software License. The BSD license offers much more flexibility with Open Source code in respects to commercial software, but this is not the space to argue that.

DarK wrote:

I said IE 7, you’re ranting about vista, sure you know IE 7 was out before vista ?!

Yes I did, and all of the security issues you mentioned were never patched because they only require a bit of common sense from the user. This is Microsoft's patch policy. If you can make a point to say "Only visit trusted websites" or "Only open files from trusted sources" then common sense will prevail.

DarK wrote:

I wrote:
DarK wrote:
I re-install my server from a floppy disk

So did I, when I was running a DOS dumb terminal on a system with no hard drive.

Well yeah, but then Microsoft never actually managed to sort that out either, using a DOS terminal is like drying yourself with sandpaper.

Windows Fundamentals for Legacy PC's is a far superior method to this, but it was meant as a joke in all honesty. I use Windows Small Business Server 2003 R2 to run my operations here. I operate a small computer store.

DarK wrote:

Most users are administrator users in the home, so that they don't have any restrictions when using the computer (ooh social/security whim created by MS), but if you can't even install when your admin your points are mute, root users can write anywhere in an UNIX environment, the program file writing is just another hack to make up for a OS that is not thought out.

That's a mistake! Everybody that administers any operating system will tell you that running as an admin during normal use is a huge security risk. That goes for UNIX/Linux, Mac, AND Windows.

DarK wrote:

And now a story !!!

Oh brother....

DarK wrote:

I went to my local PC outlet the other day and they had a vista demo on display, a few people looked at it and so did I. After ordering my parts I was stood waiting for the guy to bring the stuff out from the warehouse, I’m stood waiting near the vista demo machine.

A guy walks up and starts playing with vista, after 5 minutes he turns to me and says “is there actually anything new in Vista”, I smiled and shrugged at him and said “I don’t think so”. I got some of the new effects going (btw the new alt+ tab window view is pointless, and not anti-aliased correctly) and showed him the gadgets etc.

He asked me how much it cost, I handed him one of the pamphlets on the table and directed him to the pricing options, and the system requirements pages, after he’d worked out how much he needed to spend, he said he’d stick with XP.

I disagree that Windows Vista is any complicated upgrade from XP. Windows Vista Home Basic runs fine on 512MB for basic use and Home Premium is good with 1GB. As I stated before, those are NOT unreasonable amounts of RAM in this day and age.

Respectable computer builders won't be able to get XP from Authorized Microsoft Distributors anymore (they haven't been able to since consumer launch day). You can see this in the big box stores where many just cleared their shelves of Windows XP systems.

With the added security features, it's a good upgrade for anybody. Sticking with Windows XP when you have a more secure update that will run any current off-the-shelf hardware and software is just building in obsolescense. Besides that, Windows XP's free support ends at the end of 2007 anyway, so you won't be able to get security and bug fixes after that. Windows Vista, on the other hand, will have free support (and updates) for the next 5 years. Obviously being that it's commercial software you might not understand this whole concept of a support lifecycle though.

DarK wrote:

We got chatting, and Linux came up, I showed him XGL and the effects, and the fact it was free, we chatted about how it all worked and that he wouldn’t need to upgrade his hardware to produce the effects, and that everything would be kept update with the package managers and if he so wished it would be up to him to what he wants to change.

The only thing that might put him off was the learning curve with Linux, however I said for a free OS it’s worth a try, and I pointed him towards a XGL ready distro (ubuntu), he seemed keen.

Did you mention support for hardware and software? How about Linux vendor support costs? What about a lesson on how to recompile the kernel to add in new kernel-mode drivers?

DarK wrote:

Personally, Vista can die!! And Microsoft seems to be doing that themselves, so yey for that!!!

*shrug* Just another troll....and I thought this forum would be different.

You should visit http://www.getthefacts.com. Very informative.