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PostPosted: Sat Jul 02, 2016 6:02 am 
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HarveyMidnight wrote:
... long story short, the Art could NOT have originate in Garternay, because there would have to be a fuctioning Garternay descriptive book in order to allow linking into Garternay... and we know for a fact that the Ronay could not have written a descriptive book for their own Age-- that's nigh impossible considering the randomness of Age creation. Which means someone outside Gartnernay must have written a Garternay descriptive book, and brought the Art there.


Not necessarily. That would just mean it would be impossible to RETURN to Garternay, likely meaning that the Art was very primitive by the time they left because every experiment would be a one-way trip. They no doubt were able to write links between Earth and the other first-wave ages like Terahnee, but there's no proof that anyone ever linked BACK to Garternay after fleeing.

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PostPosted: Sat Jul 02, 2016 6:57 am 
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Twitch wrote:
It has to be Tay. There's no other way they would have gotten Tay off of Riven. She probably left Gehn's trap book on Tay during the collapse; the Tay book is the only thing she absolutely needed to take with her when she left.

I decided to take a look at the scene myself, and the book Catherine has is quite substantial - vastly more so than Gehn's thin books, and rather much like the book Atrus pulls out. It can only be a book that Atrus wrote. As for what happened to Tay, logically Catherine has a book stowed on her person somewhere, but it wasn't shown during the end sequence because it wasn't important.

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PostPosted: Sat Jul 02, 2016 12:02 pm 
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Twitch wrote:
HarveyMidnight wrote:
... long story short, the Art could NOT have originate in Garternay, because there would have to be a fuctioning Garternay descriptive book in order to allow linking into Garternay... and we know for a fact that the Ronay could not have written a descriptive book for their own Age-- that's nigh impossible considering the randomness of Age creation. Which means someone outside Gartnernay must have written a Garternay descriptive book, and brought the Art there.


Not necessarily. That would just mean it would be impossible to RETURN to Garternay, likely meaning that the Art was very primitive by the time they left because every experiment would be a one-way trip. They no doubt were able to write links between Earth and the other first-wave ages like Terahnee, but there's no proof that anyone ever linked BACK to Garternay after fleeing.


The Ronay must have been able to link back to Garternay, otherwise the Art would be fairly pointless. Ri'neref left the Guild of Writers rather than write an Age of servants for the Ronay, which wouldn't make sense if there was no way to get from that Age to Garternay.

Either the Ronay knew how to link to an observed Age lacking a Descriptive Book (a technique which would become useless after abandoning Garternay), or they had at some point written a Descriptive Book for Garternay. Given what we know about Yeesha's abilities, both of these should be theoretically possible. Her words "something that no D'ni writer has been able to do for more than ten thousand years" suggest that there was a time when the Ronay could, like Yeesha, select a single specific possibility from Terokh Jeruth.

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PostPosted: Sat Jul 02, 2016 3:12 pm 
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KathAveara wrote:
I decided to take a look at the scene myself, and the book Catherine has is quite substantial - vastly more so than Gehn's thin books, and rather much like the book Atrus pulls out. It can only be a book that Atrus wrote.


Since when are Gehn's books thin? All of the books you see are linking books, which are always thin. The only Gehn descriptive book you really see is Riven's, which is probably the largest book in the series.

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PostPosted: Sun Jul 03, 2016 8:05 am 
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Since always! Take a look at this one for example:
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PostPosted: Mon Jul 04, 2016 1:10 pm 
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That's a linking book to Riven, not a descriptive book. I'm talking about the size of descriptive books. Linking books are often pretty thin, and it's not easy to tell how thick the Tay book is from what we see in-game

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PostPosted: Thu Jul 07, 2016 10:32 pm 
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It is tricky to draw conclusions from Myst/Riven universe to URU universe as they are not the same. As stated above.

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PostPosted: Wed Jul 13, 2016 10:35 pm 
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Talashar wrote:
Either the Ronay knew how to link to an observed Age lacking a Descriptive Book (a technique which would become useless after abandoning Garternay), or they had at some point written a Descriptive Book for Garternay.

By the nature of the Tree of Possibility, every Age should have a Descriptive Book associated to it, somewhere in the Multiverse. Or an infinite number of Books. So it should always be possible to write a Linking Book, and perhaps Linking Books were developed before or along with Descriptive Books.

Testing a Linking Book could have been fairly simple: you picked a criminal and gave him the choice between execution and using the Book after linking to a desert Age. If the book worked, he was pardoned; if it didn’t, or the criminal refused to use the Linking Book... he was not.

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PostPosted: Wed Aug 17, 2016 4:45 pm 
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KathAveara wrote:
Twitch wrote:
It has to be Tay. There's no other way they would have gotten Tay off of Riven. She probably left Gehn's trap book on Tay during the collapse; the Tay book is the only thing she absolutely needed to take with her when she left.

I decided to take a look at the scene myself, and the book Catherine has is quite substantial - vastly more so than Gehn's thin books, and rather much like the book Atrus pulls out. It can only be a book that Atrus wrote. As for what happened to Tay, logically Catherine has a book stowed on her person somewhere, but it wasn't shown during the end sequence because it wasn't important.


The Tay book is the one the player finds in the cave, after solving the puzzle with "animal stones" (sorry, I don't know what else to call them).
If I recall correctly, when Catherine catches up to Atrus in the "right" ending, she tells him she had already moved the Moiety people to Tay (probably through the book in the cave).

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PostPosted: Sat Jan 21, 2017 4:57 am 
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I know this is an old topic but just checking the forums for the first time in a while (busy life). My Thoughts on Tay and Gehn.. Katran gets the Moity to Tay, leaving the trap book in Riven. The book given to Atrus is the Rebel Age (Tay). The Trap book is a linking book, not the descriptive book for the Prison Age (remember Myst 4, we find out that the books that Atrus had burned in Myst were just linking books, the descriptive books were in Tomanha). as for the book him and Katran link through at the end, If you remember the beginning he says "signal me and I will bring a linking book to bring us back". ergo, the book that falls into the fissue is the Linking book back to D'ni (from D'ni he is able to link back to Myst (thanks to your help in Myst). When Atrus made the Prison Age for Gehn, he likely (my theory) created a d'ni looking age, wrote the linking book to it, then went to another part of the age, or used a fireplace, to destroy the only escape linking book from the age as he linked out. (link out, book falls into fire, no more escape route).

As for Garternay, If I remember correctly, Linking books had to be written within the age they were to link to?.. so all the Ronay had to do was write the Linking book back to Garternay in Garternay then bring it with them to another age to be able to link back. (You don't need a Descriptive Book unless you are linking to a world you can't already get to or observe). Linking books = access to age you can already see / Descriptive books = main book to create initial link to a "new" (to you) age.


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PostPosted: Sat Jan 21, 2017 6:18 am 
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klaxen wrote:
As for Garternay, If I remember correctly, Linking books had to be written within the age they were to link to?.. so all the Ronay had to do was write the Linking book back to Garternay in Garternay then bring it with them to another age to be able to link back. (You don't need a Descriptive Book unless you are linking to a world you can't already get to or observe). Linking books = access to age you can already see / Descriptive books = main book to create initial link to a "new" (to you) age.



My belief is that linking books simply will not work, unless there is an existing descriptive book for the Age.

Look at the known facts: When a descriptive book is changed so much that it links to a different Age--- for example, after Gehn changed Age 37 so much that the book linked to "37B", a unique and different 'duplicate' of Age 37 which Gehn and Atrus had never visited -- all the existing linking books will 'follow' the descriptive book and link to the new Age.

Likewise, when you burn a descriptive book, all the linking books to that Age will stop working.

I think these facts show that linking books are 'entangled' with the descriptive book; they don't function independently. Therefore.. I believe Gehn was right about this one fact he shared with Atrus-- that linking books contain the 'essence' of the descriptive book. This convinces me that if there is no descriptive book for the Age you're in, then you cannot write a working linking book to that Age, either.

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PostPosted: Sat Jan 21, 2017 10:09 am 
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You're all basing your understanding of how The Art work from an offshoot of people who (as history has shown) severely hampered The Art via rules and regulations. Yeesha coming along and blowing it out of the water isn't magical..she's just looking past all the rules the D'ni self enforced to see what The Art is actually capable of.

We don't actually know if Descriptive Books are needed, given Garternay it's likely they might not be but then we don't know anything about Garternay. Given the Bahro 10,000 years of enslavement for all we know that's where they Ronay stole the Art from in the first place.


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PostPosted: Sat Jan 21, 2017 10:25 am 
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We know for a fact that the Age 37 descriptive book was burned.

We do not know for a fact that a descriptive book for Garternay doesn’t exist.

The possibility of its existence in the Tree of Possibilities should have allowed linking book to Garternay to work. Until its star became a red giant, at least.

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PostPosted: Sat Jan 21, 2017 6:54 pm 
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What they said. All we know is that if a D'ni descriptive book was altered sufficiently to divert the link to a new Age, or if the link was completely severed, the D'ni linking books would reflect this. All we can infer from this is that if there were no descriptive book, any linking books would always work unless damaged themselves, not that they'd never work.

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PostPosted: Tue Apr 11, 2017 7:12 pm 
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HarveyMidnight wrote:
My belief is that linking books simply will not work, unless there is an existing descriptive book for the Age.

Look at the known facts: When a descriptive book is changed so much that it links to a different Age--- for example, after Gehn changed Age 37 so much that the book linked to "37B", a unique and different 'duplicate' of Age 37 which Gehn and Atrus had never visited -- all the existing linking books will 'follow' the descriptive book and link to the new Age.

Likewise, when you burn a descriptive book, all the linking books to that Age will stop working.

I think these facts show that linking books are 'entangled' with the descriptive book; they don't function independently. Therefore.. I believe Gehn was right about this one fact he shared with Atrus-- that linking books contain the 'essence' of the descriptive book. This convinces me that if there is no descriptive book for the Age you're in, then you cannot write a working linking book to that Age, either.

I think Harvey must be correct insofar as a linking book has to be somehow ‘entangled’ with the descriptive book, or there would be no way for it to “know” that the descriptive book had been changed sufficiently to be linked to a different physical universe. But RAWA has said it does not matter what you write in a linking book to create the link, so the entanglement cannot have anything to do with what the writing “says” — in that regard Gehn must have been mistaken.

The implication (it seems to me) is that some aspect of the typical procedures the D’ni went through is what causes a linking book to become ‘entangled’ with a descriptive book. And the simplest explanation is that this happens at the point when the blank linking book is in “contact” with the descriptive book, namely when you link to the Age (by touching a Book) while carrying with you the blank linking book which you later “trigger” by writing something in it with Ink.

If this same entanglement is extended to another blank linking book when you link through an active linking book and later trigger the second book by writing in it; then it would follow that all linking books created in the Age are tied to the same descriptive book, by virtue of this chain of “contacts” occurring each time you link to an Age carrying blank linking books.

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