Islander wrote:

Moleculor wrote:

It's like only allowing people to get three of the four pillars. It's a sadistic taunt saying 'Nah nah, you can't have the cleft book!'.

No it isn't, it's simply a 'sorry, you weren't in the right place at the right time'.

Going by what you're suggesting, all content must be made available constantly from the moment it's released (or repeatedly, like the flame argument). If that's the case, where's the dynamic environment? It's completely predictable, which is bad.

I can quite believe that the sparks will be on a cycle, but I can't for a moment believe that it'd be an awful thing if they weren't.

Well, the idea is that if there's something major unlocked (which is what everyone is hedging on), then everyone should be able to get it, unless there is some reason for them not to (like it was removed). Simply saying "no, sorry, you can't have this wonderful new age because you weren't here every month four years ago" isn't going to be attractive to new gamers.

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For cowards die a thousand deaths, while heros die but one.

Well, unless they're playing video games, in which case heros die a lot too.

Maratanos wrote:

Islander wrote:

Moleculor wrote:

It's like only allowing people to get three of the four pillars. It's a sadistic taunt saying 'Nah nah, you can't have the cleft book!'.

No it isn't, it's simply a 'sorry, you weren't in the right place at the right time'.

Going by what you're suggesting, all content must be made available constantly from the moment it's released (or repeatedly, like the flame argument). If that's the case, where's the dynamic environment? It's completely predictable, which is bad.

I can quite believe that the sparks will be on a cycle, but I can't for a moment believe that it'd be an awful thing if they weren't.

Well, the idea is that if there's something major unlocked (which is what everyone is hedging on), then everyone should be able to get it, unless there is some reason for them not to (like it was removed). Simply saying "no, sorry, you can't have this wonderful new age because you weren't here every month four years ago" isn't going to be attractive to new gamers.

Oh no, I quite agree with that. However, it is for that very reason that I don't at all believe that the sparks are at all significant. I think they are just trinkets, collectables, like the Relto pages.

If something is any more significant than that, then I do object to it being a once-off.

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The one and only. The original. Accept no imitations
In other words, my posts, views and opinions are completely unrelated to those of 'islander1'.

"Never put Dolby on snake detectors"

Islander wrote:

Maratanos wrote:

Islander wrote:

Moleculor wrote:

It's like only allowing people to get three of the four pillars. It's a sadistic taunt saying 'Nah nah, you can't have the cleft book!'.

No it isn't, it's simply a 'sorry, you weren't in the right place at the right time'.

Going by what you're suggesting, all content must be made available constantly from the moment it's released (or repeatedly, like the flame argument). If that's the case, where's the dynamic environment? It's completely predictable, which is bad.

I can quite believe that the sparks will be on a cycle, but I can't for a moment believe that it'd be an awful thing if they weren't.

Well, the idea is that if there's something major unlocked (which is what everyone is hedging on), then everyone should be able to get it, unless there is some reason for them not to (like it was removed). Simply saying "no, sorry, you can't have this wonderful new age because you weren't here every month four years ago" isn't going to be attractive to new gamers.

Oh no, I quite agree with that. However, it is for that very reason that I don't at all believe that the sparks are at all significant. I think they are just trinkets, collectables, like the Relto pages.

If something is any more significant than that, then I do object to it being a once-off.

Well then I don't think any of us really have an argument with each other...

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For cowards die a thousand deaths, while heros die but one.

Well, unless they're playing video games, in which case heros die a lot too.

Fair enough. I just interpreted Moleculor's attitude as being "Nothing should be a once-off, because it's not fair on those who miss it", which I disagree with.

_________________
The one and only. The original. Accept no imitations
In other words, my posts, views and opinions are completely unrelated to those of 'islander1'.

"Never put Dolby on snake detectors"

Islander wrote:

Fair enough. I just interpreted Moleculor's attitude as being "Nothing should be a once-off, because it's not fair on those who miss it", which I disagree with.

Well, I can't speak for Moleculor, but I'd like to think that's not what he's implying, because that's a little extreme, all things considered.

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For cowards die a thousand deaths, while heros die but one.

Well, unless they're playing video games, in which case heros die a lot too.

I would assume that anything that unlocks something major, like an Age or storyline element, something really major, would at least come in a cycle. Now, if later, the storyline element is removed, that may be perfectly reasonable, but I would expect that the sparklies at least would repeat. They seem so much like a story element... And since they are part of a Relto, a thing Yeesha gives us, then thi9nk on what she calls her own journeys... "cycles."

A better solution would be for the sparklies to cycle, but after a while the relto page is removed. If you missed the page, then that is somethign that cannot be helped. But if you got it, then stick around for long enough and you'll get there. Right?

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I am very confident that the sparks will cycle forever (and the Relto page will remain forever). This is why:

Regardless of whether the Relto lamps have an effect on some other part of the game, spark-searching is a quest. It's a challenge; everybody will look forward to the beginning of the next month[*] so they can run around looking for the new spark. Or read spoilers about it, if they're in that mood -- but *getting* it will still be a regular, anticipated event. That's how I feel, certainly.

The game is ill-served by a long-term quest that excludes many players. Those players -- I mean everybody who started after Jan 31 2007 -- will still be pulled into spark-searching. It'll still be fun for them. But if the ultimate reward (even a purely decorative reward!) is denied to them, that fun will be permanently tainted with frustration. It'll be a constant reminder that you're a second-class citizen; which can only alienate new players. And Uru *needs* new players. If Uru succeeds, it will succeed by attracting a steady stream of new players who have a good time.

The first-month shirt (or beta-month shirt, or whatever you want to call it) doesn't have this problem.[**] It's purely decorative *and* it's a non-challenge; the thing was just sitting out for the taking. If you came in late, you miss out on a shirt, but you don't miss out on any questing.

Plus, it's just a shirt. We see custom shirts all the time, in real life, and it doesn't make us jealous. (Whereas I'd totally love some spark-lanterns in my apartment. :)

If the sparks *do* cycle, then as people have already said, they are a reward for playing steadily for a year[***]. Cyan *wants* people to play steadily. It clearly benefits the game to give each new player a long-term goal (in addition to all the short-term goals). Yes, it will be somewhat irritating when the whole first cohort completes their trophy and you don't; but that will be mitigated by the thought that you're going to get there soon too.

[* Or fortnight, if it turns out that way. I'm saying "month" for the sake of simplicity.]

[** Ok, I'm sure there are *some* players who will complain that they can't collect every single piece of clothing. Some players also want a shotgun. I'm willing to draw the line somewhere.]

[*** To nitpick: for eleven months and day, really.]

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Andrew Plotkin (KI#00102725)
Uru Newcomer's Guide and Answer Sheet
-- http://eblong.com/zarf/uru/newfaq.html

Isn't everybody missing the point about the extra goodies? Like the first month T-Shirt, it's a draw for you to be there. More goodies means that you will want to stick around and keep paying that monthly fee.

Hate to sound cynical, but it's supposed to be a part of the hook that keeps you coming. Also part of the reason why they've included true multiplayer Ages (aside from the fact that they are more fun when done right) - you can't simply buy a month here and there during the lifetime of the project, pop in and complete everything in one night. Not everybody will have the time for that, but if you're making use of GameTap's other games it makes the deal attractive.

Quote:

you can't simply buy a month here and there during the lifetime of the project, pop in and complete everything in one night.

I hope that never happens. This is really a game for the dedicated long-term player, not an occasional one.

I agree with you Ed.

There is one problem we haven't seen the answer to yet - what if you pay for your month but can't get in, for whatever reason? I for one don't want to end up with half finished sets of things in my relto, where the gaps stand out as reminders of months that I couldn't get in.

An obvious solution would be to make the month specific bonuses fill out sequentially, rather than have gaps if you miss one (e.g. the Feb sparky becomes the next available number - #2 if you got the Jan one, #1 if you missed it). Does anyone know if this is the case?

If it is, then you will still be able to finish the set if you miss some, it will just take longer.

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I disagree. This may very well be the most anti-negative MMO forum ever. - Kolian

Zen KI# 55764

I think you'll have to wait until March for an answer to your question, Zenguy.

Unfortunately, I've missed my log-in window for today. Otherwise, I'd fire up a new avatar and test this out myself.
All it needs is an avatar, that doesn't have the Jan sparky, to go get the Feb one and see what the effect is.

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I disagree. This may very well be the most anti-negative MMO forum ever. - Kolian

Zen KI# 55764

Moleculor, your whole assumption rests on the possibility that the twelve sparklies will release some other content. What if the sparklies ARE the content, a sort of trophy for being there since the beginning, or whenver you were there.

If collecting all 12 meant releasing some content, then I'd agree with you. We would deny someone a new Age or something because they were there the first month.

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18

There is a spiral design to go with those sparklies. We don't know how to get to the great shaft (as per To D'ni) yet. I'd say it was highly likely that walking the spiral when all of the sparklies are in place will do something.

Zenguy wrote:

I agree with you Ed.

There is one problem we haven't seen the answer to yet - what if you pay for your month but can't get in, for whatever reason? I for one don't want to end up with half finished sets of things in my relto, where the gaps stand out as reminders of months that I couldn't get in.

An obvious solution would be to make the month specific bonuses fill out sequentially, rather than have gaps if you miss one (e.g. the Feb sparky becomes the next available number - #2 if you got the Jan one, #1 if you missed it). Does anyone know if this is the case?

If it is, then you will still be able to finish the set if you miss some, it will just take longer.

It fills slot 2, not slot 1, even if slot 1 is empty.
(I know this because I missed the Gahreesen sparkly.)

I think the sparklies are just decorative. You get the spiral island page, and you go on a quest to decorate it. I'm not sure what the entire purpose of the island itself is, though.

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