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PostPosted: Thu Mar 08, 2007 12:07 am 
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Eleri wrote:
Just out of curiosity, what is the goal?


If a Cyanist stops by I hope to hear why the story has been neglected so far and IF there is a purpose behind the puzzles we're doing now. (Not necessarily to tell us if there is, just if there is one or if the direction of Uru going forward is puzzles for the sake of puzzles.)


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PostPosted: Thu Mar 08, 2007 12:17 am 
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TomahnaGuy wrote:
We will be discussing where we are going with the storyline and how we can work with Cyan to alter and add to the storyline and how Cyan are going to help us by adding to the storyline.

I don't understand how anyone can expect Cyan to discuss where they're going with the storyline. If they did, it would spoil the surprise of seeing it play out in-game.

It's sort of like calling a meeting of Pirates fans and asking someone from Bruckheimer's production company to show up and discuss where the storyline is going for the next Pirates movies, and to hear complaints why Gore isn't shooting the sequels fast enough.

IMO Cyan shouldn't discuss any part of the forthcoming story -- not the plot, the characters, nor the timing with which it will play out.


Last edited by tkwiggins on Thu Mar 08, 2007 12:22 am, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Thu Mar 08, 2007 12:20 am 
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If a Cyanist stops by I hope to hear why the story has been neglected so far and IF there is a purpose behind the puzzles we're doing now.


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I would guess that we're trying to figure out what the heck is going on. Why there's no story to Delin, Tsogal, and Negilahn. What these mysterious artifacts and strange forces we're supposedly creating rumors about are.


Hmm. Maybe it's just me, but I'd think that if they were going to say anything, they would have already done so. GD keeps pretty solid tabs on these threads.

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PostPosted: Thu Mar 08, 2007 12:31 am 
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Eleri wrote:

Hmm. Maybe it's just me, but I'd think that if they were going to say anything, they would have already done so. GD keeps pretty solid tabs on these threads.


I just wonder if there's anything to say.

I mean, if they HAVE made a conscious decision to focus on content content content with no story to back it up, do you really think they would say so?


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PostPosted: Thu Mar 08, 2007 12:35 am 
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Maratanos wrote:
Eleri wrote:
Just out of curiosity, what is the goal?

What these mysterious artifacts and strange forces we're supposedly creating rumors about are.


Artifacts? strange forces? did I miss something or are you refering to the hovering dounut rings we are collecting?
I do feel like content /story line is being held back inorder for more people to "catch up" but it is only a feeling


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PostPosted: Thu Mar 08, 2007 12:36 am 
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Poor Grey. I'm sure there are quite a few posts that he gets a kick out of. But those Neghilan numerical time config threads must be making his eyes bleed.

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PostPosted: Thu Mar 08, 2007 12:38 am 
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Corona wrote:
But those Neghilan numerical time config threads must be making his eyes bleed.

Thanks a LOT.
*blots coffee off the keyboard*
:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:


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PostPosted: Thu Mar 08, 2007 1:05 am 
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Pfft! Heck I get a brain hemorage just by looking at the topic title Image

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PostPosted: Thu Mar 08, 2007 1:14 am 
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:lol: :lol: I'm glad I have finished my mug ...

macnbc wrote:
Eleri wrote:
Just out of curiosity, what is the goal?


If a Cyanist stops by I hope to hear why the story has been neglected so far and IF there is a purpose behind the puzzles we're doing now. (Not necessarily to tell us if there is, just if there is one or if the direction of Uru going forward is puzzles for the sake of puzzles.)

Knowing the depth of storyline to all Cyan's other games, I far from believe that they have *neglected* the storyline in order to push for puzzles. And I flat out don't believe that URU Live is going to be puzzles for the sake of puzzles, moving forwards.

I'm sure that Cyan will not settle for less than developing the full back story and major plot lines to the level of detail that they normally go into. With the obvious difference that this time *we* will be playing an active and ongoing part.

And that sort of thing cannot be left to a single person tap tapping away on a keyboard for a couple of days, and then bringing one voice actor in for an afternoon to cut a few lines of dialogue. The storyline will likely have been planned out in parallel to the design of the physical content, so that clues and details can be included in the age designs, but it may well be that it requires several of the new ages to be released to form the stage for whatever will occur.

My strong feeling is that all the new places we have seen so far have very definite reasons to exist, and will play their part in the storylines to come.

More than this, Cyan is breaking into very new ground, as so articulately put by Blade in his thread about Uru as an MMARG. There is no instruction manual for them to follow about how to go about this. I can't blame them for letting the storyline aspects build gradually, so that they can develop a more definite roadmap.

I certainly don't think they owe it to use to tell us anything about what they have planned ... more than that, I don't want to be spoiled about it.

You are disappointed that Live isn't hitting the ground running with a full on story to get stuck into, but unlike the original design and storyline development of Uru:ABM consider too that they haven't had 6 years to come up with this. And they have much fewer staff. And what have you paid for this so far? Probably 99 cents ...

Live did not arrive on February 15th as a fully formed entity, I'm sorry but you have got to accept that. Cyan are working as hard as they darn well can to get there. Have some patience and give them the benefit of the doubt. I know that they will deliver if we give them the chance to.

P.S. I have no special info about any of the above ... just speculation as ever ;)


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PostPosted: Thu Mar 08, 2007 2:18 am 
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C'ristan wrote:
The storyline will likely have been planned out in parallel to the design of the physical content, so that clues and details can be included in the age designs, but it may well be that it requires several of the new ages to be released to form the stage for whatever will occur.


First impressions are the most important. If they're planning something that requires many new ages in order to work, they should've held off on launch until all those ages were ready. You only get to launch once, and launching without a story ready to go is very damaging to first impressions.

C'ristan wrote:
I certainly don't think they owe it to use to tell us anything about what they have planned ... more than that, I don't want to be spoiled about it.


We're paying their salaries now, or at least Gametap is and we're the ones funding Gametap, so yes, they do owe us something.

I don't want to be spoiled either, I'd just like to know that story is coming, and coming soon, and future ages will include the story. Does it spoil that much for them to say that?

C'ristan wrote:
You are disappointed that Live isn't hitting the ground running with a full on story to get stuck into, but unlike the original design and storyline development of Uru:ABM consider too that they haven't had 6 years to come up with this. And they have much fewer staff.


While they have fewer staff, and I have tempered my expectations to content because of this, they have repeatedly advertised the player-interactive storyline for THIS VERSION of Uru. They talked about the hypothetical lighting of the cavern, they talked about the Sharper events from Prologue. Nothing remotely similar to that has occured in MOUL yet.

C'ristan wrote:
And what have you paid for this so far? Probably 99 cents ...


I paid $60 for it back in November. I paid for a game with an intriguing story blended with puzzles. I've only received half the deal. If I had known it would be like this I wouldn't have handed it over so readily.

C'ristan wrote:
Live did not arrive on February 15th as a fully formed entity, I'm sorry but you have got to accept that.


I have accepted that. Problem is its nearly a month later now, and its still not even remotely fully formed. First impressions....


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PostPosted: Thu Mar 08, 2007 10:24 am 
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Before I get started here, I'd like to ask everyone to ignore the fact that my text is green. This is coming from me entirely without support from Cyan, and should not be seen as any more official than if it were posted in black.

Almost makes me want to have a member-only account so I can blend in again ;).

macnbc wrote:
C'ristan wrote:
The storyline will likely have been planned out in parallel to the design of the physical content, so that clues and details can be included in the age designs, but it may well be that it requires several of the new ages to be released to form the stage for whatever will occur.


First impressions are the most important. If they're planning something that requires many new ages in order to work, they should've held off on launch until all those ages were ready. You only get to launch once, and launching without a story ready to go is very damaging to first impressions.

If I may...

Let's try to remember that what you're playing is an ongoing story. You're not getting a package delivery of content + story like you're used to receiving in the other Myst games. The DRC has opened these Ages, and there's some oddities and mysteries involved in them that currently have no explanations. That is not at all to say that said mysteries will never be unveiled, or that the puzzles make no sense other than to be there. The story simply has not progressed to the point where those mysteries are going to be made clear. If the content drop came complete with the whole package of story designed to be experienced with said content, people would be done with it in a matter of days, if not hours, and then spend the rest of the month+ bored. The way things seem to be playing out now, there is content, and stuff to do, and some things that we don't yet understand. People seem to be having endless discussions about these things, and I think that's exactly what Cyan wants... to get people talking about the stuff in the game in an effort to try and flesh out what Cyan is up to. As time moves by, the story will undoubtedly come out surrounding these elements. Just don't expect it to be delivered in one fell swoop... that doesn't make any sense when you're playing the game's events out in a realtime format.

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C'ristan wrote:
I certainly don't think they owe it to use to tell us anything about what they have planned ... more than that, I don't want to be spoiled about it.


We're paying their salaries now, or at least Gametap is and we're the ones funding Gametap, so yes, they do owe us something.

I don't want to be spoiled either, I'd just like to know that story is coming, and coming soon, and future ages will include the story. Does it spoil that much for them to say that?


What has possibly given you the indication that this is not, in fact, the plan? As I said, just because things haven't been explained yet doesn't mean they never will be. Cyan has repeatedly made mention of their dedication to story in Uru Live. What needs to be remembered, I think, is that cooperative, multi-player storytelling in a real-time format like an MMO takes longer to play out than traditional computer game stories, which in the adventure game category, usually run about 40 hours if you stretch the gameplay a bit.

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C'ristan wrote:
You are disappointed that Live isn't hitting the ground running with a full on story to get stuck into, but unlike the original design and storyline development of Uru:ABM consider too that they haven't had 6 years to come up with this. And they have much fewer staff.


While they have fewer staff, and I have tempered my expectations to content because of this, they have repeatedly advertised the player-interactive storyline for THIS VERSION of Uru. They talked about the hypothetical lighting of the cavern, they talked about the Sharper events from Prologue. Nothing remotely similar to that has occured in MOUL yet.

No offense, but you don't seem to have tempered your expectations at all if you're expecting massive community-driven events on the scale of re-lighting the Cavern within the first 15 days after the official launch of the game. The only time I've ever seen the scenario of re-lighting the Cavern mentioned was in the OOC forums at the DRC's website, and that was, as you said, purely a hypothetical discussion of what Live would be like once it hit full steam, with RAWA even going so far as to actively dissuade people from anticipating something similar for a while. We're not at full steam yet, and I think Cyan has done everything in their power to get that point across. For the time being (and I do stress that point... as Live ramps up, so will Cyan's capabilities), content drops seem to be carefully managed so that content and story doesn't get burned through faster than Cyan can produce it. This is an incredibly voracious audience... there need to be roadblocks to progress, I think, or everyone would end up even more bored than they may already be.

As for Sharper... give it a little time... things weren't exactly steaming ahead when Prologue got started either. It took a while for events to really start happening, and the same is true here... things are happening, but they're not as frequent as they were when Prologue was at its peak... again mainly because of the reduced staff.

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C'ristan wrote:
And what have you paid for this so far? Probably 99 cents ...


I paid $60 for it back in November. I paid for a game with an intriguing story blended with puzzles. I've only received half the deal. If I had known it would be like this I wouldn't have handed it over so readily.

I hasten to point out that you paid $60 for a full year of Uru Live, not 1 month. I don't think it's entirely fair to claim that you haven't gotten your money's worth within 15 days of launch when you don't have to pay for anything else until this November.

Now, if things haven't gotten better by November, I'd say you have a completely legitimate reason to complain about having wasted your money.

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C'ristan wrote:
Live did not arrive on February 15th as a fully formed entity, I'm sorry but you have got to accept that.


I have accepted that. Problem is its nearly a month later now, and its still not even remotely fully formed. First impressions....

Simply looking in on things from the outside as I'm being forced to do sue to hardware incompatibilities, I'd venture to say that this iteration of Live has been far more complete than what we saw in 2003/2004. It's not 100% yet, but it's a far cry from the limited interaction potential and nearly complete lack of new content that permeated the game for over 3 months. In 3 months, the only really new thing to come out after the closed beta test was the Great Zero (and maybe the Wall, but that's almost pushing it), plus a rather involved but difficult-to-participate-in story revolving around Phil Henderson. This time around, there have been 3 new Ages and numerous in-game events with a number of DRC members and staff in less than a month and a half. Story has flowed a little slower than it did during Prologue, but I think many forget that aside from the 3-to-4-week burst of activity surrounding Sharper and Phil, nothing really happened.

Again, I think you've been fairly unsuccessful job of managing your expectations. Cyan has repeatedly made mention of the fact that they've had to start the content pipeline up practically from scratch, and has only been working on new content for about a year now. I'm not entirely sure what magical switch you expected them to throw to enable them to start generating massive Ages with hours and hours of story and gameplay behind them the day of Launch, but I can tell you pretty confidently that that switch doesn't exist. The most important thing to have right now is patience... Live was gone for 3 years, yes, but Cyan wasn't exactly working on Live in that down-time... they were making expansion packs and End of Ages. The expansion pack content is being recycled and re-integrated into the story, which is mostly likely part of why you haven't seen them in-game yet. If Cyan were ditching story development at the expense of dumping as much content on us as possible, I don't think they would have fast-tracked 2 new tiny Ages and 1 old "pod" Age when they have 2 massive Ages sitting in the wings.

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PostPosted: Thu Mar 08, 2007 1:44 pm 
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Alahmnat wrote:
Just don't expect it to be delivered in one fell swoop... that doesn't make any sense when you're playing the game's events out in a realtime format.

That phrase is highly relevant.

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What has possibly given you the indication that this is not, in fact, the plan? As I said, just because things haven't been explained yet doesn't mean they never will be. Cyan has repeatedly made mention of their dedication to story in Uru Live. What needs to be remembered, I think, is that cooperative, multi-player storytelling in a real-time format like an MMO takes longer to play out than traditional computer game stories, which in the adventure game category, usually run about 40 hours if you stretch the gameplay a bit.

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This is an incredibly voracious audience... there need to be roadblocks to progress, I think, or everyone would end up even more bored than they may already be.

With the traditional format of (Myst) game, the hungriest players have often swallowed down three years worth of development work in a matter of a couple of days worth of play, or less even ... :o

In this era of entertainment on demand, I'm hoping Uru Live will be allowed the long term opportunity to buck that trend.

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macnbc wrote:
C'ristan wrote:
And what have you paid for this so far? Probably 99 cents ...


I paid $60 for it back in November. I paid for a game with an intriguing story blended with puzzles. I've only received half the deal. If I had known it would be like this I wouldn't have handed it over so readily.

I hasten to point out that you paid $60 for a full year of Uru Live, not 1 month. I don't think it's entirely fair to claim that you haven't gotten your money's worth within 15 days of launch when you don't have to pay for anything else until this November.

Now, if things haven't gotten better by November, I'd say you have a completely legitimate reason to complain about having wasted your money.

LOL and I paid for interesting puzzles blended with intriguing story in an evolving setting. Exploration and discovery. Each to their own ;)

Al: Agreed. Furthermore, I surmise that this $60 is for a *Gametap* subscription ... not Uru Live in isolation. Note the distinction. That subscription also happened to have given you access to three months of the *Open Beta*. Props to you for buying in early, but the intent of my comment still stands ... this is still the first month for which you are technically *buying* the actual product Myst Online:Uru Live.

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The most important thing to have right now is patience... Live was gone for 3 years, yes, but Cyan wasn't exactly working on Live in that down-time... they were making expansion packs and End of Ages ...

... If Cyan were ditching story development at the expense of dumping as much content on us as possible, I don't think they would have fast-tracked 2 new tiny Ages and 1 old "pod" Age when they have 2 massive Ages sitting in the wings.

Exactly. The storyline will start to gather momentum soon enough. MO:UL shows very encouraging signs that it is shaping to be a constantly growing & evolving, *realistically* presented alternate universe, within which an ongoing storyline will develop, and not an interactive soap opera.

(Edit: wording ;))


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PostPosted: Thu Mar 08, 2007 2:09 pm 
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C'ristan wrote:
Agreed. Furthermore, I surmise that this $60 is for a *Gametap* subscription ... not Uru Live in isolation.


International players are paying 12.95$ for Uru Live alone, so this is not necessarily a fair statement.

And I think some people might be taking macnbc's statements a little too far. I guess I don't know exactly what he's expecting, but a huge Age with super storyline to go with it might not be it. I, for one, don't mind the small Ages if they we had some kind of story now. Right now we've heard only of business meetings as usual, updates from the DRC on what area they are releasing next, and a "predator" in Negilahn, which is an IC way of saying they don't have all the creatures modeled yet and/or that they want to release them slower.

I, too, paid $60 in October, and normal players will be paying twice as much as that and international players even more. This isn't about being understanding with Cyan about the number of developers they have and the amount of time they've had to work on it. To use a familiar analogy:

Umbrella Man: Here's your umbrella. That will be $12.95, like what the other umbrella stores would charge you.
Woman: Thank you for the umbrella. Hey, why doesn't it open up?
Umbrella Man: Oh, I haven't had enough time to finish it yet. You won't be able to get a full blown umbrella for another couple of months. Keep coming back every month, give me another $12.95, and we'll give you whatever updates we have.

This is about buying a product as a consumer. If you aren't happy with what you paid for, you return it (and/or stop buying it). And Average Joe Player who is not obsessed with Cyan won't want to stick around for half a year to a year, I don't believe, to eventually find a story with their puzzles. I've already stated elsewhere that I would have returned my product by now if I could, but I'm in the same boat of having to wait until October to see if it picks up at all.


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PostPosted: Thu Mar 08, 2007 2:17 pm 
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I don't understand the goal...

Do you want Cyan to reveal their storyline, to prove that they have one? :roll: They can't tell you anything about the storyline IMHO, because then it's a story, not a storyline.


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PostPosted: Thu Mar 08, 2007 2:22 pm 
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Dan'nee wrote:
C'ristan wrote:
Agreed. Furthermore, I surmise that this $60 is for a *Gametap* subscription ... not Uru Live in isolation.


International players are paying 12.95$ for Uru Live alone, so this is not necessarily a fair statement.

Let me return you to my initial statement then. I'm going to be paying $12.95 for Uru Live alone, because I too am an international player.

This option has only just become available. I paid 99 cents for the first month from February 15th, and I will be charged $12.95 on 15th March. Especially given the weakness of the USD right now, I think the amount I'm paying reflects what I am getting ... and not bad value at that, and my original comment still applies.


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