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PostPosted: Sat Sep 01, 2007 5:58 pm 
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I have 3 (or 4) important questions directed at anyone who is interested in forming a guild of messengers (AOC or other groups).

1. If the council that is being created (interim or not) on the other forum (simulcast here) is to represent those explorers in cavern that may show up wearing yellow tee shirts in the cavern, how will any council representation be truly represented, if you don’t know who these explorers are?

In other words if I show up in my yellow tee shirt and say I represent the Colonel Mustard Uru Wire Service, will I be allowed to vote? If I am not allowed, I think the whole idea of a cavern communication council is moot and certainly not representative of cavern newscasters on the whole. Where is the explorer democracy in this, and who decided this was a representative GOM action?

2. If several members of one team or established group such as CCN (or any group) decide one representative cannot duly speak for each member, does that team need to send each representative separately to the council to vote? Our CCN team is made up of several producers with very different ideas of how the guild should go. Who gets to decide how to lump us together, because we share a love for Uru and the community?

3. What are we voting on, if there is an interim council to vote? This is a fairly simple question. A list will suffice. If there is nothing on the list, why do we need a voting council?

4. In my prior experience a document/constitution/letter of purpose/mission statement or other was drafted before representatives are elected to positions by various factions or individuals, who are interested in forming a group or guild. How do we know who might best represent us? We have no idea what representative plans might be, or whether representative’s talents match the requirements needed by the individual representing each current concern?

I don’t even know whether my being elected representative by the Colonel Mustard Uru Wire is in the best interest of my group? I don’t know what to tell them about what I will be doing or voting about? Are you electing guild masters or creating a platform that requires votes by a limited few who do not mirror the cavern population, who may be in support of the GOM? So much depends on who joins and what those who join want and want to vote for or against. Any ideas? Just because we’ve been around awhile, doesn’t mean any (or all) single group(s) of us is the only show in cavern, right? What about all those free lance media types?
Has anyone sent out an invitation to all the yellow shirted explorers? I never got one. Oh dearie :shock:

I have more questions, but this is a good long start.

Ruby
(Been here all along, producing away, and only posting when its a bit urgent). I knew an old song ---about a locomotive---

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PostPosted: Sat Sep 01, 2007 6:24 pm 
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I'm not proposing anything, but these are my opinions on the questions.

1: If the group is just an absurd idea like the CMUWS, then they shouldn't be allowed to vote. IF that group makes CONTENT (as in, if it makes honest, regular content [satisfaction in those areas should be voted on by the council]). So, in other words, if you just want to make a group to make a group, you get no voice. You have to make something, give something to get that voice.

2: I firmly believe any voting council should be made up of one representative per group. No exceptions. Two people would make good reps? Make a poll and get it down to one. Either that, or have reps rotate. That should be up to the group. However if there's going to be a guild-wide vote, it should be equal votes for each group. Groups sending two or more reps would potentially get monopolies on voting.

3: As I'm not in this pre-guild/whatever, I don't know what any Guild organization is planning or has planned, but a list off the top of my head would go like this:

Membership, guild organization, hierarchy (whether or not to have one, if so what it consists of, if not what will take its place), distribution, sharing of stories, in-cavern presence, as well as votes regarding any issues to take up with the DRC (means of news distribution, etc.)

4:The group should decide who represents it. If they elect a bed rep, they should have some recall structure, etc. But this isn't a guild issue. The groups should just have to send one rep however they like.

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PostPosted: Sat Sep 01, 2007 6:59 pm 
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2.TCT has three seperate projects and each is run by three seperate people who do things in their own way. We have no problem choosing a single representative for our interests. Equal representation makes sure no one group can become too large and force its own way.

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PostPosted: Sat Sep 01, 2007 8:49 pm 
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I repeat a question that comes out an unanswered question above? Are the other guilds now in the process of creating a voting council selected from who the "someone(s)" feels are the representative standing groups in the cavern? Or are these new guilds putting together some sort of structure with input from all their members (new and just showed up in their respective colored shirts).

I suggest we find out who the yellow shirted GOM membership is and elect representatives at some future time from that group. Why does anyone have the right to decide at this time who representatives should be? Why are we excluding so many members of the cavern community, who may choose to join the messengers? Does someone have lots more information than I do, and does that someone know what the membership in the GOM is? I honestly don't know of a democratically elected delgation that is elected from a group of persons who are not officially known to be members of the electing body. In most cases the "pre-council", "interim council" or even the "seasonal council" is elected by the membership of the group (the whole group).

This whole process of giving any kind of nod to a council voted in by handful of people impressed with their own contributions suggests something altogether different than democracy to me. I think of hopping animals and pouches when I consider the work of council who turns out decisions without considering their membership. The group I would like to be a part of would at least wait until they saw who showed up in yellow shirts carrying banners that read I support the GOM.

Yes, the DRC liaison situation was a mess, but it was step above whatever is going to be created out of a few self-nominated choosers. Again what is the rush? Trying is fine, but there really is no fire just because someone shouts it. There is plenty of time to get to know one another in cavern, hash things out, find out who has leadership and writing mission statement potential. Do they do things so differently in other countries? Here in America we are not born into things. I don't know. Maybe I see this all backwards. While I know guilds have great potential to go sour (lack of spirit and vision), I am hopeful guilds don't start out as bad examples to follow.


Ruby

Edit: and I don't think my idea for a Colonel Mustard Uru Wire Service is so bad. I think its fairly good, and I may use it. I do like the acronym. I may have to use that too. It is so much easier than spelling it all out everytime. At least the CMUWS is my own idea and not the idea of any other cavern producer (that I know of). Not everyone can say that about their org :wink:

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PostPosted: Sun Sep 02, 2007 1:46 am 
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Well, I'm not entirely sure about all the proposed inner workings of the Guild (bureaucracy isn't really my thing ;)) but I do know that all the known groups in the cavern have been extended invites to join this interim council-thingy. Other independent people, such as Mike Fitz, Samsbase, Thend and others have also been extended invites, as their respective works are well known in the community. Of course, if there are other groups/people who we've missed (hey, it does happen ;)) then I'm sure if they posted their interest here or on the AoG, where all the banter and discussion about the Guilds is taking place.

Quote:
I suggest we find out who the yellow shirted GOM membership is and elect representatives at some future time from that group.


I wholeheartedly agree. Indeed, I think the intention is, in the future (as you said)to have a person/s who aren't part of an orgainisation or media group (so, essentially, a representative of the beneficiaries of the media output) on the Council at some stage, so as to have some level of oversight, and also to allow even greater ease of communication between the media producers and the media receivers. All of this has already been discussed, or is in the process of being disscussed here and at the AoG, and is open to be read by anyone. Everyone can post their thoughts/ideas/qualms/theses on the subject ad nauseum, due to the very transparent nature of the organisation currently underway.

Of course, if you don't go out of your way to enter into the discussion, then how can it be expected for your opinion to be heard? At this stage, obviously, it is the pre-existing groups that have shown the greatest level of interest, and thus are doing a fair amount of the preliminary legwork. Again, however, the general public is free to enter into the discussion at any time.

In any case, I think the sole purpose of the council at this early stage is to have a formal means by which organisation can be streamlined. This is likely not going to be the final shape of the council, which is completely open to tweaking, or wholesale change, whichever the majority deems appropriate. If individuals or groups decide that they would actually like to actively participate in the this council formation, then they, of course, would be able to have a voice in its construction.

It is the desire of everyone involved (I would assume ;)) to see the Guild of Messengers become the best it can be, and be truly representative of the community, by having as many people involved as possible, without degenerating into squabbling. But in the end, its only fair to have groups/individuals have a real say in the direction of the Guild (as they do the work) but the community at large, as is the case now, will always have an opportunity to pitch in ideas or questions, or even properly join, if they are prepared to help out.

I think that's it...

Oh dear. :( I appear to be rivalling you in post length, there, Ruby. I hope it is somewhat sensical ;)



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PostPosted: Sun Sep 02, 2007 10:25 am 
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Narym wrote:
but I do know that all the known groups in the cavern have been extended invites to join this interim council-thingy. Other independent people, such as Mike Fitz, Samsbase, Thend and others have also been extended invites, as their respective works are well known in the community.


Thank you Narym for trying to answer some of my questions. I do appreciate the answers being given here on MOUL where most explorers happen by. One of my real concerns is that the discussion was being carried on at a forum where there is no moderation for "decorum." Here I feel I can safely say I what I need to say, and I will. So thank you for acknowledging us "independents" have the right to make up our own proposals and suggest our own suggestions.

There is a definition problem already. What is an independent newscaster, show person, cavern storyteller, etc? I am a member of a very active network and I contribute work and my few cents to that concern in support of Uru and community, but I consider myself an independent producer. I am the editorial producer at Lakewater Distribution. I am its only member too. Lakewater (a wholly separate division of CCN) houses CCN independent producers and often distributes news material including videos and audio. It has no creative purpose (except fun & humor & lots of work), but it does ensure that news gets out. I think that deserves a vote in something -- not the council perhaps--I pretty much figure that the council has chosen their membership and I would not be invited by the "starters" of that group.

I am not hurt, and my no invite is no problem (fine), but I do think there is a real issue about who is in and out. It has been one of the issues I have been dealing with for years in the cavern. How will you all decide? If the creation of the council is any indication of how it will look in the future, I see a very small and intentional council with a limited purpose making policy for all other news types in the cavern. That is a problem I do not feel fine about.


Quote:
Indeed, I think the intention is, in the future (as you said)to have a person/s who aren't part of an orgainisation or media group (so, essentially, a representative of the beneficiaries of the media output) on the Council at some stage, so as to have some level of oversight, and also to allow even greater ease of communication between the media producers and the media receivers.


The issue is as Ghaelen pointed out much better than I have (other thread) ---any pre-council set up sounds like it is trying to become the official guild. It may hamper perfectly respectable, talented news and storyteller explorer types. They may get the idea their input into a forming guild is already foregone--gone. I would think so myself at this point, but I have been around awhile and see this attempt in a whole other light. It does not impede me from posting my opinions and questions. It forces me to post my questions, even though it is a bit messy to go up against an intrenching grain.

Quote:
Of course, if you don't go out of your way to enter into the discussion, then how can it be expected for your opinion to be heard? At this stage, obviously, it is the pre-existing groups that have shown the greatest level of interest, and thus are doing a fair amount of the preliminary legwork. Again, however, the general public is free to enter into the discussion at any time.

I am no johnny come lately. I have been watching this thread(s) for the entire time. I wanted to wait until I had something to say before I posted. It is not my purpose to post for post sakes. If you will notice my post count. It is very low. Instead of posting I have been working (when surface time permits) on cavern media projects instead of saying this or that.

Quote:
In any case, I think the sole purpose of the council at this early stage is to have a formal means by which organisation can be streamlined. This is likely not going to be the final shape of the council, which is completely open to tweaking, or wholesale change, whichever the majority deems appropriate. If individuals or groups decide that they would actually like to actively participate in the this council formation, then they, of course, would be able to have a voice in its construction.


This is the section that makes me most nervous. Streamlined is an excellent choice of words. At this time I don't think the council or the guild membership should be streamlined at all. The unofficial GOM should be looking for members --- lots of members with all kinds of notions about what a GOM looks like. The unofficial GOM should be talking about what it means to be a cavern messenger, what tools you have to use, how to use those tools, and what kinds of talents might most benefit from and with membership. Streamline what? and final shape of what? Some of the council members are saying not to worry - this is a pre something that doesn't count in the long run.

Narym, you are saying this is not the shape of what will be. I know its controversial, but I would like to go on the record to say this "streamlined" "self appointed" and "invited to a few only" council is not the shape of a GOM I would like to see. Who decided that these groups and independent producers were the ones to be represented, while other explorers were deemed parts of other groups and or not important enough at all to matter?

Quote:
It is the desire of everyone involved (I would assume ;)) to see the Guild of Messengers become the best it can be, and be truly representative of the community, by having as many people involved as possible, without degenerating into squabbling.


Narym, I am sure you do want to see a GOM become a best GOM. I don't doubt that one minute, and I am four square against squabbling, but sometimes it is necessary to stop and take a look at what came swishing by so fast that someone forgot to say ---"hey, wait a minute. What are you all exactly saying here?"

One of the reasons it is so important that we discuss the unofficial GOM here is that the majority of us at CCN are adverse to squabbling. I don't represent CCN, but I can at least say that without upsetting my fellow producer friends. A couple of us went so far to say that we would like to be part of a GOM discussion for the future, but we won't engage in discussion unless its a "mature discussion" with a slow build that everyone can take time to see and review.

Many of us at CCN work on the surface and it takes time to read the posts, discuss the meaning of what is being said, and decide for ourselves if the suggestion is plausible and works for everyone. I am still not sure why the hurry about all of this? Since I did not take part in the other forum's discussion I have no idea who started this surge for a pre-interim-seasonal council? It really doesn't matter I guess, because my argument is not with who started the thing, it is with what got started and how fast it is moving to become "the final shape" to persons still desiring to become a part of the GOM. Thank goodness there will be a Cyan to come in and fix what gets broken along the way, so that everyone can participate in the guild when it is official.

Until then I am stuck making these long question posts. Even though I've been promised nothing stays the same and everything will change, I don't want anyone to be able to say "well you said nothing at the time." This is my saying something at the time :D

Ruby

EDIT - OOOPS - one last question Nayrm - (since your answers tell me things, :D ----If I wear my yellow shirt in cavern and in the pub I see on the new things in URU (if there is one for messengers) will I be considered a fellow member, whose work is determined by the council? Exactly how does that work, if I am only a member and not a contributing voting member? Will there be lots of us ant types?

Edit Edit - For the persons who support the 1 vote mandate. I agree 1 vote X 1 member of the GOM supporters = 1 vote, whereas 1 vote X a group of any number of members of a cavern group = something unknown.

or

1 independent producer X 1 vote = 1 vote if that producer is a member and wearing a yellow shirt, but 1 vote x 1 group may represent the voices of several members of the group or none of the group, if the members of the group are not yellow shirted supporters.

or how does one producer like me (if I were mistakenly invited to join :wink: ) X 1 vote = the same as 1 Relayers vote X all those yellow shirted relayers?

I need a little math help here. I think its all those yellow shirts we don't even know about it. Any pre-pre-pre council oughta consider, or why in the world did the shirts come about in the first place? If I were playing a game with clues from the game creator, I would think about what those clues might mean.

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Last edited by Ahvree on Sun Sep 02, 2007 10:54 am, edited 2 times in total.

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PostPosted: Sun Sep 02, 2007 10:51 am 
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Ok, so I have read here and on the AoG - GoMess forum section.

I think this whole "council" and "voting" and "rules" stuff is just getting in the way. At most, discussing a mission statement makes sense to me (aside from the actual guild work), but thats about it.

I like the idea of people interested in the future GoMess getting together and discussing what the future GoMess could do.
I also like the idea of people starting to work on these areas of work immediately (if technically possible). I like that different groups and individuals are getting together to cooperate and work hand in hand on those areas of work they are interested in, split work-loads and have fun together. I like that people are getting together to work for the players at large, so information reaches them, processed in different formats (Remember the work is not only a creative playground, but a service, think of your customers).

What I don't understand why any rules or voting (thus perceived decision making) has to be involved at all at this point in time. It's not necessary at all for the above. It creates friction between groups of people and individuals that has nothing to do with the actual work itself. And it has no validity anyway.

I am not saying those working on the preliminary steps can't make any decisions, of course they can, but only for themselves and pertaining the immediate (collaborative) work they are about to start.

Why not just focus on the fun part, being "messengers", however you see what that is. Possible model structures of what kinds of work-fields the GoMess will include and how people can work together effectively within the guild will evolve anyway, same goes for interaction between "messengers" and the other players. Don't waste enthusiasm and energy on bureaucracy, politics and meta-disussion. Just focus on processing and spreading information with both your customers and your own interests in formats in mind.


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PostPosted: Sun Sep 02, 2007 11:49 am 
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This "council" is concerned primarily with creating a platform for the existing messaging groups to work out how to work together. It's not created any real friction between any of the groups so far the most logical arguement against it has come from Eleri:

Quote:
Mmm, I think some of the hang up may be in calling it a council, having nominations, etc... That makes it seem much more official and structured and final than what it appears you want.

What it seems you want, is a group of people from the various messegery-type groups to commit to sitting down and talking about what the GoM could be, and how to get that ball rolling. Am I at all correct?


Personnally I think her assement of what the people are looking for is completly correct, all the messaging groups (apart from CCN and MO who have yet to give final opinions and Bladelakem who has declined an invitation to send a representative) seem happy with the idea of a council:

Mikefitz:
Quote:
Hello, MikeFitz, Editor-in-Chief of the URU Action News.

I'd like to nominate the editor-in-chief of the URU Action News.

I actually tried to start something like this a little while ago ... here

Side note: I don't think we should start of with policies of exclusivity or "news-only" organizations (as a 1/2 news-1/2 comedy organization myself). Anyone interested in messages should be allowed to participate. So I think Thend (Ki-Tunes) should be allowed a seat as well, if he so desires. My $0.02.

-MikeFitz


The Psion
Quote:
Sorry for coming late to the party all (there was a lot to read to get here too!), I've was working at a summer camp and internet access in the middle of the woods is a bit hard to come by

Anyway, the folks at MO/UO will be getting back to you in a day or two, and I would like to thank everyone for thinking of me, I'd love to have mystlive involved, I've been trying to make it more useful and accessible since I started working on it in May, so hopefully being part of the GoMess (as mentioned elsewhere) will be mutually beneficial.

I also wanted to add that I'd be happy to work on anything, I have a lot of experience with news writing and layout, so I'd be happy to help in that capacity if needed, just let me know!

Thanks again, and I'll keep watching here, and I'll be able to get into the Cavern again, so hopefully I'll see you all there as well!

Talk with everyone soon!


Lynnutte:
Quote:
Thend has agreed to accept a seat on the council.


The messaging groups all have different aims, desires and fears. The council is there for us to work out what we want. Some people have expressed concerns that a entirely new Guild would harm existing groups as current members clamoured to be offical and listeners tuned into GoMes instead of them, others think amalgimation of groups is a bad idea in media but like the idea of a central contact point. Personnally I'm hopeing we can create a D'ni Network on steriods and then hopefully from there move on into bringing in individuals and letting things evolve

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PostPosted: Sun Sep 02, 2007 12:04 pm 
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Maybe I am asking too many questions at one time Steve. I will ask one 1/2 first. Who has been invited and why?

Who has been left out of being invited and why?

A list will suffice.

Edit - oops. A list with your criteria will suffice.

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PostPosted: Sun Sep 02, 2007 1:18 pm 
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Just a light hearted teensy correction here :D :

Ahvree said:
Quote:
or how does one producer like me (if I were mistakenly invited to join ) X 1 vote = the same as 1 Relayers vote X all those yellow shirted relayers?


Those of us in the Relayer Corps don't wear yellow shirts and you probably won't see us change our red shirts since we had decided on those long before the guild thing was announced. Besides.....we'd have to take a vote amongst ourselves before we decided to change that. :)

As for the voting. I have very mixed feeling about that at this point. I agree with Ireenquench. It is too soon to be allotting votes to groups or individuals. We need to continue our discussions, and continue to bring in all the interested parties whether they be independents working totally alone or working with a known group. I think the start has been good by contacting all the known groups and asking for them to have someone represent their interests. Face it, it is a lot easier to get one person who can gather the consenseus of his group to come to a meeting. The organized groups, and I throw out the Relayers as an example, have one executive officer, our founder, and a board of officers. But we ask the whole membership before we make a decision. So we are comfortable selecting one of our number to represent our interests because we know she will bring her ideas and thoughts to us and we can give her our input.

The idea of independents working together such as what Ahvree describes under CCN is another thing to consider and should be discussed. If a group of independents get together to collaborate under an "umbrella" are they considered one organization or not? How do they get represented? Or because they work under such an umbrella should they work out their differences for representation amongst themselves and only the umbrella organization be recognized? I think there is still a lot to be discussed here and maybe the first meetings need to address the different types of groups and independents here and how we can get them ALL involved and what type(s) of representation are needed to proceed further. Then we can go on to looking at what we are hoping to get out a Guild and what we hope to accomplish. And hopefully a Mission Statement and a Code of Conduct.

I am in absolutely no hurry to make a lot of structure appear, though I am totally comfortable with whom my group has selected to represent our interests. Besides, we really have no idea what the DRC plans are ultimately for this and I am afraid some might be really disappointed if it ends up not being as structured or in the form as they imagined. The only Guild I see not having any changes is Guild of Greeters. They are established and have been for quite a long time.

Just my two cents here (and I haven't even had my coffee yet!)

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PostPosted: Sun Sep 02, 2007 2:45 pm 
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Ireen, Dudemom, I should have read your posts before Iposted here again. Or maybe not. There are so many discussions now, going on at once -- exciting and daunting trying to keep up. Thank goodness they are all in one place now!

Anyway, I will just say a few things here.

First: Ruby's questions posed are important ones to consider and should in no way be slighted or discounted, even by those who do not understand them.

Ireen, Dudemom, I agree with you. Politics is already in the way of the work, mine included. Besides, Cyan gave us all lots of time to think and discuss. I want to do that.

I would like to do my own thinking for myself, keep my own council if I choose, and agree to act on behalf of others (if requested and appropriate) according to my own timetable, not according to the schedule of someone else who has no authority to hurry me.

I am breathing a little easier now about some kind of group meeting. Maybe... if the guild pubs look the way they look.... we could all just meet (with no titles or labels) and just get to know each other and talk a little more. Maybe keep a little log and post it here so everyone can see who we are and what we do. (after the episode is over, please?)

Just that one step.

Oh yes, and keep asking those hard questions, Ruby. Some of them are the very questions I have had as well.

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PostPosted: Sun Sep 02, 2007 9:03 pm 
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My list started by using this one My criteria was simple, anything which attempted to fulfill a messaging function either in cavern or out. Primarily that was news based although anyone attempting to get a message (creative works such as thends cartoons) into the cavern was contacted. The list is welcome to grow and change as people join in the discussion and may wish to enter or leave. Since I don't know every group in existance I relied on MO:UL's communnity listings and some google searching if you are aware of an unrepresented group encourage them to get in touch. Lynnutte informed me she PM'd Ghaelen (who we figured was the most vocal on the matter so best to contact for CCN(go check the discussion)) who then asked us to post the CCN request publically:

Lynnutte's post:
Quote:
I did send the original message using MOUL. I did get a reply. She basically asked me to publically post the invitation. So I posted it on MOUL this morning. If for no other reason than to show them that we are not trying to hide what we are doing from anyone. I think that may have been one of the concerns, but I could be wrong.
We will see if they accept or not.


So please don't give me the "wheres my invitation" speech, the process has been quite open with an invitation extended to all groups.

Why bother arranging voting? If an impass is reached a quick vote can easily help overcome difficulties. It never hurts to be prepared does it? I can think of several issues which will require full agreement from the groups involved, all of which are logisitcal issues (website creation, forum management,information sharing & in cavern presense.)

A group of us have got together we've come up with a council which gives every group an equal vote in the interest of fairness has the support of every group we contacted (except CCN now), it is open to expanding its membership, it will be able to vote on matters if needed and will exist to create the foundation of a GoMes which will enhance the current messaging groups in the cavern. We have done this publically on a forum non of the interested parties have moderation abilities on and will continue to do so.

Let me ask you something what would you do instead? If you've got a better idea then say it. We're happy working and if Cyan or DRC choose to pull the plug, then so what? We will have atleast either started or setup a way for the interested groups to discuss matters which can only be a benifit to those in a cavern. As you seem to be constantly trying to poke holes rather than get involved and suggest improvements then you must have a better idea. I'd love to know what it is.

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PostPosted: Sun Sep 02, 2007 9:18 pm 
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At this point Steve there are many ideas floating about. Some will work and some won't. The main thing to remember - there is no rush to vote on a thing. We have to get to know who we are -- us Guild of Messengers supporters and all of the other ideas and notions will come through that crowd of messengers. I don't think you are the only man with a plan. There are most likely lots of different ones, and those plans will come about naturally without a push.

For example: At TCT you apparently have a structure that calls for one representative to represent the whole concern. At CCN the structure is much looser. Each producer is a producer with the same equal footing. Sometimes we work as actors or writers on one another's projects. One of the reasons TCT and CCN are no longer collaborating is that we did not see how we could mesh our structural organizations. We are independent voices at CCN, who may work on projects not CCN related. Marten works with us sometimes. I don't think Marten should be forced to accept an appointee from CCN's representation. If he wants representation, he would be his own representative as a fine cavern film maker.

I see your trying to structure the council in the same way TCT is structured as a "will not work" for the GOM. I am not sure what will work, but you can't force CCN or any other concern into your idea of what representation should like. I am not sure you mean to do this, but it appears that way to me.

The only idea I have right now I want to share echos those offered up by Dude Mom, Ireen, Ghaelen and some others. Since there is no rush, there is no need to vote on anything. First we need to talk. A real sit down and around the campfire ongoing series of talks in the cavern where this game is supposed to happen.

Have you considered rethinking this matter? Sometimes it is good to listen and read, as well (instead) as make recommdations that are so exclusive.

Ruby

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PostPosted: Sun Sep 02, 2007 10:40 pm 
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So you have no alternate suggestion you just wish to attack this one, very positive of you.

I've said everything I think needs saying, everything I have posted here and on AoG should answer any questions I can think of. If people have any suggestions or idea's please make them

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PostPosted: Sun Sep 02, 2007 10:59 pm 
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I think a group should be a "publishing group". The seat on the council (read my comments for reasons for not letting everyone possible in on the council and listen to the URU Radio shows for more discussion) should be given to a publishing group, or in other words, the banner that your independant group falls under to get it's content out.

I'll use URU Radio as an example, the first example where it is awarded a council seat, the other where it isn't.

1. URU Radio has it's own website where all content is posted independently from the rest of the net. URU Radio doesn't rely on anyone elses funding, URU Radio has it's own server and domain. URU Radio offers an original angle on messaging in URU.

2a. URU Radio joins with The cavern today. URU Radio is listed as a cavern today division and is accessed via a link on the nav bar on their site. URU Radio uses their servers, URU Radio may donate to The Cavern Today but the main funding and organisation for the project (eg.. website and forums) is run by the cavern today.

2b. URU Radio is a pod casting service, and bears little difference to the cavern today other than it has slightly different topics and a different schedule. (the council will decide on the difference between 1 and 2b by a council vote that will determine all decisions in the guild)


In the 1st hypothetical situation, URU Radio gets a seat on the council. the other two, the seat is not given. In 2a, the parent publishing organisation (in this example The cavern today) votes on behalf of URU Radio. In 2b no vote is given for URU Radio but may still be considered a member organisation at the council's discretion.


My answers to some of your comments (thinking ahead):

Yes there is a possibility that organisations will not get to join the guild. There must be some exclusivity to the guild, otherwise everyone who wants a council vote will just split off from their parent publishing organisations and declare themselves independent and worthy of a council vote.

Individuals do NOT get a vote on the council, each organisation gets 1 vote each.

It will not necessarily be easy to join the guild !! However if you join an organisation that has a seat on the council, you can call yourself a guild member. Otherwise you have to create a NEW and ORIGINAL and INDEPENDENT organisation and submit yourself to a council vote which decides on eligibility for a vote.

Forward Thinking:


Council members may have ranking (lvl 1 council members being highest etc. may have 2 votes when a new council member at lvl 2 may only have 1, some issues will only be voted on by lvl 1 members). This will counter new groups having too much power in the guild. Organisations being promoted from lvl 2 to lvl 1 will be promoted on a lvl 1 council vote.

There may be open votes for anyone in a member organisation (equal votes for all).

The original council, when decided upon will be put to a community vote with a binary outcome "yes" or "no". the vote will not give the option "yes, but as long as such and such a group doesn't have a seat". On the outcome the vote is given a "no" THEN the council will be rewritten, and put to the vote again (multiple times possibly to get it right)

Operations in the guild will be put to a set of votes AFTER the council is made.

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Last edited by Samsbase on Sun Sep 02, 2007 11:16 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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