Hahahahaha!

Now, how could I possibly have forgotten to reference Ancient Sumerian as a first option when reading a seemingly English word! D'oh!



Thanks for the information Zardoz. Now I do see what BAD was getting at.

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Language is that highly evolved, complex and sophisticated system whereby one human being blorfloogs with another.

There's some deep feelings here but it is at last in the open.

There are clearly a number of people out there who are pledging themselves to the future secure in the knowlege that they personaly will never return to Untìl Uru (Thanks Bad I used cut and paste to get the accented i).

I have a request can we have your old Kagi Keys I don't know if we can how we re-password them but the desire to recycle stuff is good for the environment.

We will leave a bowl by the door just drop them by when you leave. We will make sure they are used only by those who will look after the fixtures and fittings.

This may even save Cyan a job re-using old keys will save on resources.

grilox What makes you or anyone else think anyone will be asking Cyan to make UU compatibile with Uru Live. All that has been asked of Cyan is the release of the Kagi Keys nothing else. Nothing more than was there allready.

There are Path of the Shell shards out there running totally unsuported with nothing more from Cyan than a Kagi Key. I even think theres an independant running the Authentication server (correct me if I am wrong).

As I have stated before I am more than happy to have access to and availability of private shards reliant on a valid Uru live membership.

This is Cyans' call, we can appeal to them to be gracious and caring to our wishes but in no way can we dictate.

As has been made clear in earlier posts

Compatability issues are the problems of the developer communities. If those private shards don't get support then so be it.

But I know that I for one will be happy to visit both Uru Live and the private shards as long as I can.

I know there are users out there who cannot complete Uru as it stands through no fault of their own. Users with impaired keyboard skills who have been enpowered by the use of the UserKI. Users who have made an on line community home there.

Are you denying these people a simple enjoyment you take for granted?

_________________

I for one would like to see Uru Live and UU exist as two seperate programs. I feel throwing UU away would be a waste. There are people out there that would like to take breaks from Uru Live after solving some ages and would like to escape. It's about the people to me, forget that and we have nothing.

The current shards serve as homes for some. Moving over to something new isn't entirely the same. I support cyan, but I like to see the best of both worlds if anything.

The thought of losing a shard to me is like having your house taken away from you... In my case I can't just move somewhere else. The memories won't go away.

BAD wrote:

It is Untìl Uru. Notice the little mark over the i, it is called a grave. This made it something other than just until UruLive returns.

I never noticed that until now. o.o

As for the private shards, I really can't say anything on that. I've never had access to them. I would probably play Live more than visit the D'Mala shard - since I would like more to do than run around finding markers, jumping off cliffs, etc.

I'd say, whatever happens, happens. I can cope with it since I haven't experienced more than 3 months of online Uru. ^^;

Having access to "recycled" Kagi keys would be a great option for those of us who couldn't get onto a private shard.

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The ending, indeed, has not yet been written.....or has it?

KI #00063063

BAD wrote:

CJK,
WOW! You caught me totally off guard. I never expected you of all people to think that way. Well it is your opinion and you are entittled to it. I guess once UruLive opens I won't be seeing you in UU either.

Uru Live will give true bug fixes (versus workarounds) and improvements. With UU, that is simply not possible. For instance, the UU update fixed a bug in the client relating to colliders. That could not have been fixed otherwise (only worked around) once the issue was identified as a bug in the client, as we have no source code. Fixing a problem in the client itself usually requires fixing the error in the source and recompiling a new client.

The server-side bugs can be resolved via the Alcugs project, so fixing server-side bugs is a possibility, with much work. To truly make UU a viable item, you would also need an Alcugs client for which we would have the source as well. I know I do not have the ability to write such a client.

I would expect that with Uru Live, the lag issues will be fixed, and the low player per server ratio will be remedied, and new high quality content will be added on a regular basis. None of that is realistic in UU. And not to disparage the fan age creators (as I cannot do even that much), but all the fan ages I have seen are rather crude in comparison to Cyan's ages. I am quite sure that with time this will change, as the tools improve and people become more experienced, but that could take quite some time. And by that time, I would hope we would be able to see those high quality fan ages in Uru Live, as Cyan has suggested.

JKla wrote:

I know there are users out there who cannot complete Uru as it stands through no fault of their own. Users with impaired keyboard skills who have been enpowered by the use of the UserKI. Users who have made an on line community home there.

It is my opinion that Cyan will add accessability items into the new client. I have not seen them intentionally leave people out when they were aware of the possibility, and it would be extremely bad business to do so in any case.

I would recommend we hold off on this debate over what should be done with UU until after Uru Live has been launched and we all have had the opportunity to try it. It is not possible to compare UU with it's bugs and quirks (which we have experienced) and the new Uru Live (which we have not yet experienced and truly know nothing about).

Tomala wrote:

It's about the people to me, forget that and we have nothing.

Exactly! Only difference so far between UU and Uru Live is that none of us will have administrative powers, which does not matter to me. As long as the capability of having your own neighborhood still exists, people can gather and meet on the new Uru Live product in private, if they so choose. So we should all at least try Uru Live before deciding our opinions on UU's fate.

BAD wrote:

Are you accusing me of insulting Cyan? You really have no idea whats going on do you.

You say you were not in the first Live, and you tell me this? Hahah!
I never said you were insulting Cyan. I used the word "disrespect" - and with this I didn't want to be mean to you or anyone else. I'm sorry if you felt offended. I have strong feelings about Uru just like most of us.

Quote:

Number one. It is Untìl Uru. Notice the little mark over the i, it is called a grave. This made it something other than just until UruLive returns.

Yes, I know what graves are.
And yes, it is Untìl Uru... as Zardoz already pointed out through RAWA's words, its complete meaning is: "a place to keep the community alive until Uru can grow again". I fail to see how this can change what I was trying to say.

Quote:

We want our own little space to play uninterupted by the storylines and large amounts of players. Is that really so bad? Would that really detract form your UruLive experience?

Probably it's just about me, but I don't like when people treat something as if it's their own thing, when in fact it is not. Uru is Cyan's Uru IMO, and if you want something else, go and look for something else.
I don't know if UU would detract anything from my Live experience. But we all have seen how fragile the future of Uru can be, and something like UU servers can weaken Live IMHO. What makes me think so? Well, this conflict about the future of UU, and the "threat" that many would be disappointed and will not join Live if Cyan closes UU, are destructive in the first place.

This is only my opinion, I will never shut down your UU shard or email Cyan and ask for that. If UU continues to exist and I am proven wrong about my fears, I will be happy as everyone else.

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Morningstar - KI#1053460
Please avoid drinking the lake water.

Morningstar wrote:

What makes me think so? Well, this conflict about the future of UU, and the "threat" that many would be disappointed and will not join Live if Cyan closes UU, are destructive in the first place.

Cyan needs thousands of players and a steady growth of players to be successful with URU Live. Seventy-five or less players are not going to have any affect on the greater scheme of things.

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semplers' shards

I hope Until Uru stays around in some form for the people who can't afford to pay a monthly fee for Uru Live. I have heard several people comment that they won't have funds available for this, and not all of them were teenagers on an allowance. It would be a nice gesture to allow them to occasionally meet their friends in the old cavern when they can't get into the new one.

Quote:

un = the people, the community
tìl = to live, to keep alive
Uru = the deep city

Morningstar,

Please, please tell me where you see the phrase "a place to keep the community alive until Uru can grow again" in the quote above. Talk about insulting, your misquoting RAWA.

To me this meant that WE the COMMUNITY were given the chance to keep Uru alive. That could have been indefinate or until Uru Live came back. Take your blinders off and see the whole situation around you. UruLive will be great but we have spent alot of time building UU. We don't want it to go away just because a new better toy has come out.

CJK,

Well I guess if you look at it as a purly technical issue than yes UruLive will be better than UU. Thanks.

Now the question is whether everyone is going to like the new better product, or if there will be some hold outs for the older product that we *may* be allowed to keep running ***INDEPENDANTLY*** from Cyan and the rest of the community.

If everyone likes UruLive better than no one will be on the UU shards anyway. No need to worry about it.


[sarcasm]
Oh and thanks for the comment hinting that we only want the independants alive for our AdminKI's. Yes your right that is all we care about. Thanks for the vote of confidence.
[/sarcasm]

I do agree with you on one very important point. This discussion is premature.

Perhaps UruLive will live up to all of our dreams and UU will be forgotten like the Studabaker and the Edsel. Perhaps we should all stop playing Zork, and old nintendo games too. After all we have games that are so much better now. Don't forget how old and outdated Myst and Riven are.

You guys amaze me.

If we are nice to these people Bad they may leave their Kagi Keys in the bowl when they leave.

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BAD wrote:

Quote:

un = the people, the community
tìl = to live, to keep alive
Uru = the deep city

Morningstar,

Please, please tell me where you see the phrase "a place to keep the community alive until Uru can grow again" in the quote above. Talk about insulting, your misquoting RAWA.

Again: I did not talk about insulting. But I see that your answer to my post is just an attack directed at me, some etymology, and not much more. I still cannot see how this could change what I was trying to say.

Anyway, you're failing to see, or maybe you don't want to see, the big picture (which is in fact fairly small... just five letters long): the word "Untìl" was chosen for a reason. Do you really believe that those two words make the word "Until" together only by chance? It's like saying that "Uru" has nothing to do with the Sumerian word for "city", and that it's simply "you are you". My phrase was trying to express the multiple meanings of that "Untìl", but clearly I didn't succeed.

Now I "take my blinders off" for a moment and link to the Untìl Uru website http://plasma.cyanworlds.com , in order to quote this for you:

Quote:

This is not Uru, or Uru Live. It's only a breath, a spirit of what Uru was. It's a heartbeat until Uru can slowly grow again.

...Untìl Uru can slowly grow again.

While you're teaching me lessons about graves, please take note: the first "until" in the quote is "graveless".
Now I can put my blinders on again.

This said, I won't argue about this anymore. Your posts are far too angry for me. I hope that you'll be able to get what you want without any negative drawback for Live.

Shorah.

_________________
Morningstar - KI#1053460
Please avoid drinking the lake water.

wohba I seem to have joined in a hot thread here, first off let me qoute the cyan UU site

Quote:

Untìl Uru

Uru was built for people - a place for people to meet, grow and wonder.

The deep city came alive with the sounds of life - and then it was silent again.

But the life of Uru is in the people. It will not awaken again until Uru has people again

...Untìl Uru has people again.


This is not Uru, or Uru Live. It's only a breath, a spirit of what Uru was. It's a heartbeat until Uru can slowly grow again.

...Untìl Uru can slowly grow again.

So UU is what exists Until uru can grow again, basically heres something to tide you over till LIVE!

Where has anyone said that the private shards will be abandoned? All Moke has said is the new and old clients won't be compatible, this probably means you'll need a UU installation a POTS installation A ALCUGS installation a Volcano Installation and a LIVE installation. To get it all.

CHIP runs the auth server its out of Cyans hands (I think) so unless Chip decides to stop running it I can't see how we would lose UU. Further more the Alcug shard has figured out how to do the Auth server or at least how it works. So even if Chip did give up the auth server then I'm pretty sure Cyan could be pursuaded to let people run their own Auth server.

I am happy to recycle my KAGI key a few months after Live goes Live then if anyone wants my key (and UU goes quiet as I suspect) then I will be more than happy to pass it onto them.

I suggest people are getting worried about being abandoned, from what I can see Cyan is one of the most caring devlopers out there, Id have faith in them.

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Morningstar,

Well if you wish to ignore me and my opinions fine. I am angry. You are basically saying that Untìl Uru is useless and is someohow threatening to UruLive. What did you expect?

When I said blinders I meant that you only see UruLive as the end of the line. You seem to not care about UU, the game that kept the Uru community alive for 2 years. If Live is your end and you don't want anything in it's way that is fine with me, but I just don't like how your expressing it. Sorry for being human.

I guess you can interpret those quotes in different ways.

I don't see one line in the quote you guys pointed to that says:

"Until Uru is only around until we can start UruLive again."

Perhaps I am just stupid, but I read it as the future was open. UU could have developed into a Live like state, or it could have become a haven for Uru players if Cyan could not find a way to bring back UruLive another way. Cyan was smart in not making promises. Now they are going in a new direction with Live. Thats great.

All we are asking is that the old outdated software still be allowed to be ran independantly. For some of you that is unexceptable? No one has given a real argument against it IMHO.

When Cyan asked us all to move to D'mala, we complied, for the most part.

They did not ask us to eliminate the private shards.

I don't think this latest development will be much different, in that regard, and don't think it should be.

Each will have its own purpose, as those who have advocated for retaining the private shards have eloquently stated.

And while I wouldn't mind having Cyan require a subscription to URU Live in order to access the private shards, I don't think that will be necessary.

I just have a feeling that once Live opens, I think most folks will want to spend their time there. There may be some reasons to occasionally revisit the private shards, but as time goes by, I think they will be fewer, and we will all find comfortable places in the hoods and ages of Live.

I just see no reason to not have them both. I don't think there will be any harm to Live, and much good for the community in doing so.