My previous thread about episodes, storyline, and ... "mood"? is getting off topic, moving on to live events and how to move the story along.

Edit:
What do you think about scheduled, live, major DRC events?

What do you think of "Major DRC story stuffs" released via Live events?

If not, what are the alternatives? NPCs? Documents?

I personally find them too hard to synchronize with my life. I can't even watch television (hate those commercials, anyway) shows regularly. I think little surprise visits from Cyan people is a fun bonus, such as possesions of NPCs, but other than that, I don't see how Live events can succeed unless they are organized by the participants themselves in small groups, unofficially.

I feel any event should not be mandatory to enjoy the game.

Edit: I do however like live parties, such as holidays, as mentioned by Tweek below.

_________________
Magaio

Return to Myst Blog

Last edited by magaio on Mon Aug 25, 2008 10:15 pm; edited 1 time in total

I like them.They are fun and spaicel.And they make the game much more alive.

However,they should be told better,so more people should enjoy them (if you want to know wht is "told better,just look at one of my latest posts ).

And I think we should have some more NPCs,but not too much.nd documents too.

In short,I want 50% live events,40% documents and 10% NPCs.

What would be cool is sort of "MOUL news" video released in-game every month.Telling you what happend last month,giving you videos of the new places and events.

_________________
Previously known as "The stranger"

I’ll crib from something I said over at DPWR.

Scheduled (or unscheduled) live official events (as opposed to unofficial – more on that later) are what I would call an "ephemeral" element of Uru (ephemeral = "lasting a very short time"). They are experienced by those who are present during the appropriate time period and in the appropriate place, and others may experience them second-hand if they are logged or otherwise recounted. But they are ephemeral in that the second-hand experience will always be historic, and so the set of players able to experience live events directly will always be small. That is their weakness in terms of contributing to a rich, in-game experience, but the opportunity to be among those who actually get to experience them is their strength.

A "persistent" element is a hard-wired object such as a journal or a physical object. (I would also include hard-wired appearances by the Yeesha hologram or any other NPC appearances that are not one-offs.) They can be discovered by anyone entering the game for the first time. Mystery can surround their meaning and importance, but everyone has the opportunity to participate in debates and discussions because potentially everyone can experience these elements. That, of course, is their strength in terms of contributing to a rich, in-game experience, but they are passive in that they cannot be changed or affected by players.

In my view, persistent elements offer the best chance to build a shared culture and an active community for a game like Uru. Because they create a common reality, they offer every player the same opportunity to discover "story" and ponder deeper meanings. They allow people more flexibility to create shared, in-game experiences, because these elements wait for the player to come to them. They allow the developer the opportunity to create and control short- or long-term mysteries. They also provide new players the opportunity to make many or all of the same discoveries as old-timers.

In contrast, ephemeral elements such as live events are personally gratifying but do little to build a shared experience or culture. They differentiate explorers by the amount of time spent on-line, or by time zones (if they are run out of a single time zone, as the Cyan-based experiences were), and so potentially create classes within the community. The Uru community also seems to have a poor tradition of telling stories, and so there are few records of important, ephemeral events that can be accessed by new players, other than chat logs. And by offering the opportunity to affect the story, it encourages excessive behavior (take any appearance by any DRC member in any public place as an example).

Now, that doesn't mean I believe live events and other dynamic story elements have no place in Uru. I heartily agree with the idea of having explorers generate their own live mini-stories, some of which may even contain canonical elements. The fact that only a relatively few can experience these first-hand is balanced by the “smallness” of the stories, in the sense that they would not be whatever central grand story Cyan was trying to tell, presumably one that everyone would like to know and experience. They would also be more manageable in terms of crowds, as each could draw on people who have interests satisfied by the explorer’s storyline.

But as for making live events (scheduled or unscheduled) the central organizing principle of Uru, I respectfully say, No, thank you. Only a select few can experience them, and the entertainment value of such experiences drops significantly if they are second-hand (and may be vastly over-rated when they are first-hand and are mob scenes such as Yeesha's final appearance in Kveer). As such, while they certainly can and should play a role in an on-line game like Uru, I believe that the persistent elements (journals, etc.) must be even stronger, as they provide a better avenue for building a solid community.

Last edited by Zardoz on Mon Aug 25, 2008 9:43 pm; edited 1 time in total

the stranger said,

Quote:

In short, I want 50% live events, 40% documents and 10% NPCs.

First of all, how do you expect Cyan to develop all of that live action with a currently two-man team?

Secondly, how often were you expecting to play the game? Once or twice a month? That's not very fun. We could easily have a more constant stream of fun all throughout the months.

What you are describing, stranger, sounds a lot like real life ... which I actually have to commit to far enough as it is. Yes, like in real life, you can't be everywhere because of time constraints. In games, there should not be diamond-hard time constraints. Why? Because not everyone can get to a game when they want, unless they are very young and have no responsibilities in life. Games like World of Warcraft and Second Life are strong because their member base is diverse. There is plenty to do because life isn't scheduled in those games. I'm not for total anarchy here, but let's be realistic.

Games should be fun, without pressure.

I don't want to play catch-up through videos. That just sounds silly to me because it is a game ... it's supposed to be interactive, unlike most games these days with 50% of them being fancy cutscenes. There will be enough happening as it is with all of this amateur stuff coming into the game ... well, perhaps, anyway.

Besides, if live events are scheduled, guess what happens to the cavern in between events? Not much.. Players sit on their hands in excitement, the cavern explodes for a week, then -- silence. It's boring. When gamers get bored, they move on.

_________________
Magaio

Return to Myst Blog

I like the events, I just don't think they should be scheduled.

_________________

KI#46415

Quote:

First of all, how do you expect Cyan to develop all of that live action with a currently two-man team?

I do not.These are my hopes for the future.

Quote:

Games should be fun, without pressure.

I don't want to play catch-up through videos. That just sounds silly to me because it is a game ... it's supposed to be interactive, unlike most games these days with 50% of them being fancy cutscenes.

Than may be the solution is not lowering the position of live events,but giving more interesting journeys to do? you got a great journey to do,you choose if you want to stick to the journey or the events- or both 50-50.No pressure,your choice.

Another solution,when possible,would be (as I said before,but finally there is a proper place for it) giving us more of these in a day (like 4-5 DRC visits,just coming to say hey and play 'heek),2 orgenized events (which make sense when orgenized) every month with KI sent to explorers so they will know when to come (DRC Q&A,age release) and tell the story well (let us find out what's going on,do it slowly so everyone will uderstand).Also,some story to the journeys (new ones and the ones that already released) will help a lot.

Quote:

Besides, if live events are scheduled, guess what happens to the cavern in between events? Not much.. Players sit on their hands in excitement, the cavern explodes for a week, then -- silence. It's boring. When gamers get bored, they move on.

Maybe you did not understand me.I was talking about the live events prologue style.As in "everything can happen anytime".I don't like the episodes way,I don't like scheduled events.Maye except "the monthly age" release and DRC Q&A,which makes sense.

_________________
Previously known as "The stranger"

Still sounds like more of the same, to me. I'm not convinced. I'm looking for Uru to be very different from what it was.

It was obvious to me even then that the live method wasn't going to work out. And it didn't. I don't see how that has changed, except that Uru shut down and is smaller than ever. We need a big change in order for it to stay alive and hopefully be successful at least for Cyan's sake.

Enter the players.

_________________
Magaio

Return to Myst Blog

A definition of live events would be needed.

Should regular DRC story stuffs be scheduled? No.

Should events like The Day of Dancing be scheduled? Yes, it is a D'ni holiday event.

_________________
Beneath - Journey of an explorer in D'ni
UruBlogs - Blogs from Uru Explorers
Tweek@Guild of Writers - Age development Blog.

I was going to say that live events are good if they are of personal, topical or timely interest and do not propel story; bad when story depends on them. But Zardoz put verbosity and reason behind all that, so I'll just say to his post: yeah that. It's why I favor and support true NPCs - full and equal access to story no matter who you are or when you play, on your own merits.

_________________
OpenUru.org: An Uru Project Resource Site : Twitter : Perfect Speed Is Being There.

Quote:

A definition of live events would be needed.

So edited!

_________________
Magaio

Return to Myst Blog

Quote:

A definition of live events would be needed.

Should regular DRC story stuffs be scheduled? No.

Should events like The Day of Dancing be scheduled? Yes, it is a D'ni holiday event.

That is right.But than again,people would like to get their chance to be in "a live event" every month.As I said beofre,I scheduled age release and DRC Q&A would make the most sense,I guess.

Quote:

Still sounds like more of the same, to me. I'm not convinced. I'm looking for Uru to be very different from what it was.

It was obvious to me even then that the live method wasn't going to work out. And it didn't. I don't see how that has changed, except that Uru shut down and is smaller than ever. We need a big change in order for it to stay alive and hopefully be successful at least for Cyan's sake.

Enter the players.

I see the live events more as a + .

You see,I believe that MOUL failed not because of the live-events,but because new players hoped for more.A better way of telling the story,better journeys.They got smaller things.So I say: when you can,cyan worlds,grow these things! journeys can be changed and fixed,but the story need to go on,in a better way.Stopping it would be too easy.Going on with it with a better way will the way to go in my opinion.

_________________
Previously known as "The stranger"

JWPlatt wrote:

But Zardoz put verbosity and reason behind all that, so I'll just say to his post: yeah that.

Sorry I taxed your attention span, JWP ( ) - here's the crib notes version of my post:

Scheduled live story bad!! Journals good!!! Build common, shared experiences good!!!! Isolate and divide explorers bad!!!!

How was that?

And just to be clear, live events like the Day of Dancing or any other explorer-generated, live action event, IC or OOC, is 1000% good. I was verbosing about live elements of story-telling.

I'm sorry the argument that scheduled events is better than not due to people being able to attend is a failed argument.

Unscheduled: Things happen randomly some people miss it because I weren't on at the time.

Scheduled: Things happen at a specific time, people miss it because they can't get on at the time.

There was no problem being solved by scheduling the events to a specific time, the issue at hand remained, people could not get to see the events.

Personally I have little problem with this, the events in Uru were supposed to take place like real life events do (which I am all for), if I missed them I missed them if I didn't I didn't, at least it felt more natural not forced and false.

_________________
Beneath - Journey of an explorer in D'ni
UruBlogs - Blogs from Uru Explorers
Tweek@Guild of Writers - Age development Blog.

Tweek wrote:

Personally I have little problem with this, the events in Uru were supposed to take place like real life events do (which I am all for), if I missed them I missed them if I didn't I didn't, at least it felt more natural not forced and false.

The big difference is that in real life you usually have the chance to relive an event
by watching news channels like CNN.

That is what was missing in the episodes versions.

What Zardoz said!

There are two things going on -
- types of live events
- interactive/non interactive.

Let's take interactive first. Something like the olympics is not interactive. Even if I watch it on TV, when it is happening, I don't get to talk to Michael Phelps! I'm OK with that because that's the kind of event it is. For an event, with people, in a game, I expect the event to be interactive, which means I get to interact with someone. Hanging around and watching someone live talking in a game - not my idea of fun. If I want to watch a movie, I'll rent a movie. I'm OK with videos, NPC characters (real NPC, artificial intelligence), cut scenes, but they need to be on the short side, and triggered by something I do - part of gameplay - even in an online multiplayer game. I don't play online games to watch movies. If I want to watch a movie I'll go the the movie theatre, or rent one. I'm not paying a monthly subscription fee to watch movies.

Types of Live events - I'm with the crowd that thinks that live events should be fun things, like festivals - something that, while fun, is OK to miss. Since we won't be getting any live content from Cyan, this seems to be like the parties we've had in Uru. Different groups could have parties, festivals, in different time zones. That's good. If it's an official story driven event, something that is core to the game - then every player needs to be able to experience it, and not in a rerun. I also think they should be scheduled. If I logged on and found out that there was a fun festival thing 1/2 hour ago, and it wasn't announced, I would be more than annoyed.


Here's the thing - you can't pretend that the conservation of matter does not exist, even if you do it unconsciously. There are reasons why other games do festivals, and don't drive story by means of live events. It's just not fair, not respectful to the player. Short of having unlimited resources - (bandwidth, story going on in all time zones, all neighborhoods, day or night, for weeks) - I just don't think you can give people a meaningful experience if a live event gives you the big stuff. Don't go there.

Other MMORPGs also give people something to do at their festivals - they program in gameplay. That's respectful to the players. If you expect me to show up for an event, I'd like it that you thought enough to give me something to do in the game. Sure, it's repeatable content (like a mini-game) but it's fun, and it gives the player something do, with a reward.

---------------------------------

As for Uru, and other games - let's review the success of WoW. Blizzard didn't feel they needed to completely reinvent the MMORPG genre. At the time Everquest was the game with what was thought to be a big subscription base. As far as I can tell, Blizzard looked at the MMORPGs out there - looked at the experience, gameplay, even lag, and figured out what would work and not work in their game. The success of WoW is not surprising (though I don't think most critics expected WoW to be that successful) - people played Blizzard's Diablo for years, and the game is ancient! Arenanet's Guild Wars did the same thing - though different - they went with lots of instancing. They looked around at the MMORPG genre, came up with a new approach, but they also took what worked for them from the genre. I'm not saying that Uru needs to be like WoW, but I am saying that you should think about what you are doing, what you can realistically do, and what makes sense to do, and what you have the resource to do, what's worked in the past and what hasn't worked. Don't forget about lag, crowding and bandwidth. So - hey - other games haven't been able to make "must be there" events work in their games. Maybe there is a reason for that.

Personally, I don't think of Uru in terms of "potential" anymore. "Potential" is for a new game - not for game that first came out in 2003. Uru is what it is, nothing more or less, which means no new content from Cyan, fan content, and thankfully - no Cyan live events. I do think that live events were one of the reasons that Uru was not successful, that and so little to do. and gameplay not tied to anything, but that's me.

But.......OK - maybe after 3 years (conservative estimate) - we'll get new stuff from Cyan. Here's what I recommend. Cyan should think about what they are doing, study it, test it, plan it, and be realistic. Potential is nothing, execution is everything. That's why I really like this upcoming version of Uru - no more promising something they can't deliver. And yes - hooray - no more official live events!

_________________
Retired forum mod, mszv, amarez in Uru (KI 89257), other online games
Blog - http://www.amarez.com, Twitter - http://www.twitter.com/amareze

Last edited by mszv on Tue Aug 26, 2008 2:46 am; edited 4 times in total