After years of being a part and sometimes "sliced" member of this honorable community, I hereby request that volunteers and paying or waiting to pay Myst/Uru customers no longer be referred to as HERDED CATS. It is patronizing at best to call the wonderful explorers who help with all pursuits imaginable, HERDED CATS, or made to feel they need to be HERDED. Talented spelunkers, surface dwellers, refugees, and explorers get involved, not get herded.

I know LC that you have spoke of this kind of thing, but as your friend and colleague, minion, I ask that you too refrain.
LOL

PLEASE NO MORE CAT HERD CALLING IN THE Dniverse for all sorts of reasons. I promise with hand over my heart never to take part in such silliness either! I hope I never have. It should be a phrase not even said about my third graders.

Ahvree
Ruby O'Degee

EDIT: Veralun, if this is in the wrong thread, please move it. The expression is oft heard in the community, and I did not know where best to express my concern. Thank you.

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Cavern Communications Network Twitter:CCNDownUnder - Borrowed from Mr. Lewis Carroll: What is the use of a book, without pictures or conversations? KI 379788, Twitter: Ruby_ODegee

It's unfortunate that people have come to a misunderstannding of what "cat herding" is. The balance was badly tipped when some company made an adverrtisement that showed cats being herded as if they were catle. Anyone who knows cats knows that no matter how much force is applied cats will not be herded in this way.

Convector Felium is rather proud of his "cat herding" skills, but the truth is cats can't be herded. Cat herding is a rather noble concept in his miind, as it involves making a safe and inviting environment for helpers of rather feline skittishness, and then waiting to greet them as they show up. The ones who want to move, by their own choice, in the same direction as the others... well, they became the Rooftop Volunteer Group.

I think Convector is right in taking some pride in how that group assembled and worked. It was a remarkably stress-free assemblage of people choosiing to foment the slow revolution that we hoped would grow from the parties.

So, witth respect, Convector and I will continue to do cat herding and describe it as such. Understand that we do this in the old-fashioned sense of it being pretty much an invitation: to get creattive and independent people moving in roughly the same direction. We're not going to change our ways just because some uppitty modern corporation chooses to redefine a concept in a way tthat sells, in essence, more cans of beans that are just like everyone else's beans.

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Want to learn more about the D'ni? Look here: http://www.dpwr.net/

Yes, and per the way you say it, cat herding (rooftop volunteer group, who could never be called a herd), is most likely a "short explanation" for a long winded story complete with humor. In my recent experience, however, the phrase has come to mean being LED BY THE NOSE into doing something by someone, who believes that customers will participate in an authoritarian organization that is no where close to being story driven.

The smarter the folks are, the less they will want to be so led. If some acquiesce and are led by the nose, they will learn to resent the authority.

That is why it doesn't work with Uru folks: never has and won't never will. Happily, I like collaboration without silly coercion. I know that it doesn't always get the job done, but is getting the job done the point? If getting the job done is your penchant, then it must be done by **oneself, not directing others to do the sloppy job stuff.

Some folks in the Uru explorer fold never want to be the followers. Their only desired contribution is through leading the pack or herd. Sometimes it best not to lead, but to listen to others, who might be telling this explorer (homo sapien) to take a rest from leading. Leading is a job that gets wearisome, and the leadership grows stale when it does.

For example, instead of planning the party, the wannabe or habitual leader might bring the paper plates and cups to the buffet. This provides the habitual leader with a nice rest, and the gesture shows everyone else that being at the party with everyone else is as important as talking about all their leadership contributions that were appreciated, but over. Or desert. Desert is a good thing to bring to Myst/Uru parties.

Learning from Ruby's experience has been my heartache and joy that knowing when to bring the Kirel baked treats, and knowing when to step up is a fine balance. She is not always good at knowing when, but she is determined to figure it out, instead leaving in a huff when she can't be queen.

LC, although I've never officially called you King (I know you would blush at the prospect). I will call you one of my dearest friends. Although you say "cat herd," you have never herded cats in the way cat herding was described to me yesterday by two different explorers. Nope, you have entertained and collaborated with us. I've never even heard you fuss about thanks or gratitude. Hmmmm, it goes without saying why I look up to you, or over at you, or whatever.



Ahvree
Ruby O'Degee

**cash is a reward that can be given to explorers in most cases. Sometimes they will be led by the nose for cash. I kept my pile of cash between my mattresses for years, but alas it has run out. Now, I have to settle for doing it myself or working with others. It is tedious and not always successful, but I sleep better at night without the lump.

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Cavern Communications Network Twitter:CCNDownUnder - Borrowed from Mr. Lewis Carroll: What is the use of a book, without pictures or conversations? KI 379788, Twitter: Ruby_ODegee

Absolutely! Never again shall we be called HERDED CATS! We will be INVOLVED CATS! and we will spell HERDED and CATS in ALL CAPS from now on! BOYCOTT EDS!

Seriously, is this some kind of prank? Sadly, I must assume it's not.

The term "<blank> is like herding cats." is a well-established saying meaning, essentially, that the task is nearly impossible because of things which are uncontrollable. It has been used, appropriately, to describe the task of organizing pretty much anything in the Uru community. This is not an insult to the people. We are a diverse (and often opinionated) bunch and it takes a rare kind of person to inspire a group of us to work together. It doesn't insult the people you are working with, it is merely a comment on the collective process.

To find something patronizing in this is to distort its meaning. It means mentally substituting "controlling" for "herding" and "people" for "cats". This is irresponsible. One can do the same thing with "A fool and his money are soon parted". Does this imply that anyone who spends money is a FOOL? We must stop this at once! I promise with hand over heart to--you get the idea. While we're a it, we should ban the phrase "<blank> is like pulling teeth." And what is with this continued allusion to slavery? That we are "led by the nose" to participate in an "authoritarian organization"? And more of this irresponsible language. That willingness to be led is based off of intelligence.

In the end, there are a great deal of things in Uru and elsewhere which can be referred to as like "herding cats" because they are difficult or impossible due to the diversity of the people involved and their inevitable clashes.

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-Whilyam

Somehow Whilyam, you always find my posts, and I can always expect you to make the same kind of retort. It has been years now. Simply years.

This time I stand by what I say, and I reconfirm it.

Edit: In fact I am going to do a thorough search during Christmas break 2009 to see if "you" have posted to every thread I've ever posted to, and how far behind me your post was made. Let me see? 2003 or was it 04? check. 2005 of course, check.
2006, 07 check. 2008 I did not post much. 2009, check. Goodness I did not realize how much my words meant to you (FOR OR AGAINST). I do like capitals, because I can see them better.

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Cavern Communications Network Twitter:CCNDownUnder - Borrowed from Mr. Lewis Carroll: What is the use of a book, without pictures or conversations? KI 379788, Twitter: Ruby_ODegee

Ahvree wrote:

Somehow Whilyam, you always find my posts, and I can always expect you to make the same kind of retort. It has been years now. Simply years.

This time I stand by what I say, and I reconfirm it.

Edit: In fact I am going to do a thorough search during Christmas break 2009 to see if "you" have posted to every thread I've ever posted to, and how far behind me your post was made. Let me see? 2003 or was it 04? check. 2005 of course, check.
2006, 07 check. 2008 I did not post much. 2009, check. Goodness I did not realize how much my words meant to you (FOR OR AGAINST). I do like capitals, because I can see them better.

Ad hominum. Nice.

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Wow, you guys have some real influence. Three days after someone here starts saying boycott EDS, HP goes and rebrands EDS to HP Services.
Talk about fast work. I'm sitting the the meeting where they are announcing this right now.

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Ahvree wrote:

Somehow Whilyam, you always find my posts, and I can always expect you to make the same kind of retort. It has been years now. Simply years.

This time I stand by what I say, and I reconfirm it.

Edit: In fact I am going to do a thorough search during Christmas break 2009 to see if "you" have posted to every thread I've ever posted to, and how far behind me your post was made. Let me see? 2003 or was it 04? check. 2005 of course, check.
2006, 07 check. 2008 I did not post much. 2009, check. Goodness I did not realize how much my words meant to you (FOR OR AGAINST). I do like capitals, because I can see them better.

If you want to discuss why you disagree, I would be happy to explain my position further. However, if all you are going to do is take cheap shots at me, then I simply have neither the interest nor the time to do so.

And Butch: Yes, we have much power!

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-Whilyam