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PostPosted: Sat Apr 10, 2010 12:30 pm 
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Zander_the_Heretic wrote:
*"Well, erm, over millions of years colonies of microscopic creatures evolved which deposited metal molecules in a spherical shell which grew over time into this remarkably regular shape, and then some of them mutated to make glass instead of metal, and there was air inside despite it being underwater because, erm, well, Great Maker, is that the time?"


I am more of the idea of "and suddenly all the molecules in the area inexplicably turned into wood". Ridiculously improbable, yes, but to me the Art is basically manipulating probabilities rather than literal creation.

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PostPosted: Sat Apr 10, 2010 1:48 pm 
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Calmiche wrote:
Wow.. Declaring that the D'ni didn't use slaves is... weird.

Good thing I didn't say that. I said that some individuals or small groups may have used slaves, in secret. The slave trade mentioned by Sharper was, IIRC, secret and hidden from the Guild of Maintainers. Why would they do that if slavery was acceptable? It may be that all of D'ni used slaves unknowingly and that it was a secret known only to a very small group, but that would be a huge deceit and I have seen no conclusive evidence to support that.

It may be that all of D'ni used slaves; as Zander hinted at, we hardly know everything about D'ni. All I'm saying is that to this point, I haven't seen anything that would override the evidence that we have been presented that they did not condone slavery.

To me, assuming that the D'ni did use slaves based on what Esher said, when he was deliberately trying to deceive the stranger into giving him the tablet (all of that is subject also given that, even IC, Myst V is a game based on real events) and what Yeesha says (she may be telling us that the D'ni used slaves but it's hard to tell when she constantly talks in riddles :P ) is weird.

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PostPosted: Sat Apr 10, 2010 2:48 pm 
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You may very well be correct Frisky Badger. I can certainly see where you're coming from. There doesn't seem to be concrete evidence one way or another.

However 10,000 years is a long time. I'm of the opinion that at some point in that timespan, the D'ni probably avowed slavery openly and used slaves to construct edifices in different ages.

And again, we're making assumptions. Sharper might well have thought that the slave trade was secret. That's the impression his journal gives, even if it's not stated directly. However, that journal entry was from very early in his exploration of Teledahn. He might even be correct in his opinion. Then again, this is the opinion of a man trying to reconstruct information 3rd or even 4th hand after several thousand years.

Slavery doesn't always take the form of chains and beating. Anyone forced to work for others or risk starvation is still a slave. Call it what you will; serf, indentured servant, peon, thrall or wage-slave, it's fairly clear that the lowest class D'ni were slaves in all but name.

Of course, lack of evidence does not indicate proof. Without a definitive statement, we're left to ourselves to form opinions about the D'ni culture. Until I find a logical argument against, I'll maintain my opinion while respecting yours.


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PostPosted: Sat Apr 10, 2010 3:26 pm 
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Calmiche wrote:
Of course, lack of evidence does not indicate proof. Without a definitive statement, we're left to ourselves to form opinions about the D'ni culture. Until I find a logical argument against, I'll maintain my opinion while respecting yours.


I can live with that. :D

I agree that 10,000 years is a long time and I doubt that every single person that left with Ri'neref would have been completely happy with their decision. I could see people siding with Ri'neref initially and then once they get to D'ni they realized how much of the comfort in their lives was dependent on slavery. Maybe that's why they maintained a link with Tehrahnee, in case people changed their minds.

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PostPosted: Mon Apr 12, 2010 5:07 am 
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I still like my original "drop them from orbit with a Writer inside" theory. It's just ridiculous enough to be totally awesome.

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PostPosted: Mon Apr 12, 2010 4:09 pm 
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LazarusRising wrote:
I still like my original "drop them from orbit with a Writer inside" theory. It's just ridiculous enough to be totally awesome.


How would that even work? To drop something from orbit, you'd need to first be in orbit, so how did they get up there, and how did they build the pods in the sky?

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PostPosted: Mon Apr 12, 2010 4:16 pm 
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LuigiHann wrote:
LazarusRising wrote:
I still like my original "drop them from orbit with a Writer inside" theory. It's just ridiculous enough to be totally awesome.


How would that even work? To drop something from orbit, you'd need to first be in orbit, so how did they get up there, and how did they build the pods in the sky?

I dunno, I'm mostly just being silly. I just like imagining some poor Writer stuck in a pod on it's way down thinking "I'm doing this for a zoo?"

Edit: For a plausible, technical explanation, consider that the descriptive book for the planet may have been specially written so as to purposefully establish the initial link to some point in orbit. If Todelmer is any indication, the D'ni were already aware of the way planets orbit each other and other aspects of astrophysics. It's not inconceivable that instead of describing a particular place on the planet's surface in the descriptive book that they instead describe a particular point in orbit and go on from there. Writing the descriptive book that way would give ample opportunity to describe the various specific biomes they wanted to observe on the planet without making it necessary to detail every feature of them. Then, once the book is Written, have people use Maintainer suits to import/build the orbital structures required.

Yeah, it's a stretch, and likely wrong, but it's still fun to think about.

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