Whilyam wrote:

I also don't think it helps for Cyan to threaten to take down Uru.

You take things with such a negative twist… One could see it as threat, fair enough. It fits the definition, if not the connotation.

But, from Cyan’s point of view it’s a matter of letting someone break the vault and 22,000+ players have to once against restart the game. They are going to leave an unsecure system running so we can play on it. Cyan stated what they were going to do if people keep messing with the vault. I see that much more a statement of necessity and fact than a threat.

Firesign is right. Cyan is under no obligation to explain anything. I remember when they were trying to get rights from Ubi for GameTap-MOUL and later from GameTap. They explained part of what they were doing and fans ran with the information and Cyan eventually had to come back and ask fans not to hack and tone down the speculation. It could just be they learned to keep things private until it reaches a stage where the fans can’t mess it up.

Whilyam wrote:

Honestly, can we stop the character assassination? […]

It is this sort of marginalizing of people, and the language used, […]We should be better than this. […]It is this sort of treatment that makes long-time fans like Tweek want to stop working because of how people in this community treat one another. […]

I find those rather surprising statements for you to write. I agree with them. I’m sure not seeing much character assignation, or marginalization of others, or behavior that would run others out of the forum in this thread. I’m not seeing moderator notes or ‘post edited’ footnotes, so I’m assuming it was not removed.

B'ni Rabbit is concerned about Cyan shutting down the server to plug security holes and I think accurately states how much of the community feels in that regard.

I think the security holes need to be fixed. I would prefer the fans were fixing the problems. I would like Cyan to be focused on getting the code to us… or licenses… (waves sign – Licenses Now!) But if it is a matter of the vault being corrupted or having odd things injected once a month or so… I’ll survive the down time.

I think like BAD in this case, I think it's obvious that if you exploit security holes on Cyan's server, you are going to force Cyan to take time and money to fix said holes. I can't imagine a scenario where this would not be the case.” Plus, I’m amazed they allow the game to run knowing those holes are there.

And like lots of others, I think fans messing with the server most definitely slows down the open source project.

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Nalates - GoC - 418 - MOULagain: Nal KI#00 083 543, Nalates 111451 - Second Life: Nalates Urriah
Guild of Cartographers

Yes, this, as they say on the blogs.

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Zander

MOULagain KI 1090046

"What you still don't understand I have either forgotten to tell you or don't know myself."

We are all aware of the fact that Cyan is not obligated to explain themselves to anyone. But since this isn't a Franz Kafka novel we may reasonably believe that they might choose to. Also, people have the right to demand almost anything of anyone (just not the right to get what they want). To rebuke someone for the mere expression of interest in some useful information is a little silly.

Actually, I take it back. This is remarkably like a Franz Kafka novel.

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Guild of Outcasts

KI # 04260171

They might well choose to, at any time, but they have not committed to do so at any time. To rebuke them for reneging on promises when they have made none is not the same as "expressing interest in information," and there's been an awful lot of that.

Maybe those of us who wait, more or less patiently, for whatever they choose to reveal whenever they choose to reveal it are being...I don't know, what? Slavish? Subservient? Complacent? Whatever it is, we do seem to be a whole lot happier than those who rant and rail and use loaded words to attack Cyan, and seem to be trying to put people off. And it leaves us a whole lot more emotional space for real-life problems.

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Zander

MOULagain KI 1090046

"What you still don't understand I have either forgotten to tell you or don't know myself."

I can't say I agree with everything Cyan has done concerning the Myst series and Uru live, but then again I have no clue what Tony and the two Miller brothers go threw to keep Cyan open. After everything has been taken into consideration good and bad, I would like MORE but Im kinda surprised we this much.

What am I saying?? Well until I know what it takes to run Cyan, keep it running in the black (IE turning a profit) and have done so with a company that parallels Cyan, more successfully then Cyan. Until that happens I am in no position to tell them how to run their business.

Those shoes don't fit me.

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Quote:

When you eliminate all other possibilities, what remains, no matter how improbable, must be the solution.
Sherlock Holmes

Nalates wrote:

But, from Cyan’s point of view it’s a matter of letting someone break the vault and 22,000+ players have to once against restart the game. They are going to leave an unsecure system running so we can play on it. Cyan stated what they were going to do if people keep messing with the vault. I see that much more a statement of necessity and fact than a threat.

Firesign is right. Cyan is under no obligation to explain anything. I remember when they were trying to get rights from Ubi for GameTap-MOUL and later from GameTap. They explained part of what they were doing and fans ran with the information and Cyan eventually had to come back and ask fans not to hack and tone down the speculation. It could just be they learned to keep things private until it reaches a stage where the fans can’t mess it up.

I definitely agree with this statement, there is information out there that cannot be released prematurely, if there is a possibility of harsh consequences down the road...

Personally speaking, I'd rather wait to be told something rather than be told early with having complications occur later.

Nalates wrote:

I think the security holes need to be fixed. I would prefer the fans were fixing the problems. I would like Cyan to be focused on getting the code to us… or licenses… (waves sign – Licenses Now!) But if it is a matter of the vault being corrupted or having odd things injected once a month or so… I’ll survive the down time.

I think like BAD in this case, I think it's obvious that if you exploit security holes on Cyan's server, you are going to force Cyan to take time and money to fix said holes. I can't imagine a scenario where this would not be the case.” Plus, I’m amazed they allow the game to run knowing those holes are there.

And like lots of others, I think fans messing with the server most definitely slows down the open source project.

I agree mostly with this statement. I feel like Cyan should run the vault, and give out certain permissions to the fans. For example, I'd like to have the ability to reset kickable objects in my ages if they get stuck.

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KI#46415

The problem is that Cyan doesn't just have the two choices of "take Uru down and fix it" or "keep a vulnerable system up." Until I hear otherwise from Cyan, I see "let the fans help fix the security" as a perfectly viable third option.

This is what I'm trying to get at. People are focused on the superficial, blanket statements like "Cyan isn't obligated, etc." That's obvious. But people are acting like that's the end of discussion.

Also, what Kolian said.

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-Whilyam

Maybe they don't want people poking around in their proprietary stuff. I know I wouldn't.

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Caution: Objects in mirror are dumber than they appear.

Heaven wrote:

Maybe they don't want people poking around in their proprietary stuff. I know I wouldn't.

yeah, that. and i'm not trying to assassinate anybody's character or anything remotely like that. i'm not even saying that they shouldn't let people in the community who are ace coders (and i know there are many) help fix stuff. there's no need to get so defensive. what i meant by "entitlement" is the demanding tone that some people have about cyan releasing code to open source now now now because they want it and demand to know why cyan won't do it yesterday. that is certainly not everybody in the community, and wasn't meant as a blanket statement. i just find that attitude annoying.

We have the right to offer any ideas, resources, or manpower we can to Cyan. We have the right to ask for reasons why they can or cannot accept said offers.

Cyan has the right to refuse or accept our offers, as well as to andswer our questions or to choose not to.

And it is my stance that while everyone does this we should try not to get angry with the fans, or Cyan because we all want MOULa to succeed one way or another, and it is better that we get to that point as friends than adversaries. A great american patriot once said (and I forget his name at the moment) and I paraphrase...

"I do not agree with what you said, but I will defend to the death your right to say it."

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Thelonius "Prof" Higginsbottom

member of the Guild of Calamitous Intent

"I invented the term the Bevin Generation do I get a spot in Mystlore?"

i'm not angry with anybody. well, except for the dude that impersonated the bahro.

I'm not even angry with the Bahro impersonator. I think it's possible he did us all a good turn by exposing a weakness that CYAN have now fixed. How would we be feeling if some real bozo had hacked in something much more unpleasant?

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Everything tastes better with chocolate....

Very good point A'na. But all the drama, even on the forums, takes Cyan's attention away from what we want. I am not saying lay down and be a good puppy and just wait...I just think there are better ways than some have shown by continually screaming to the heavens demanding how Cyan should do things and what they want. In fact, I think Cyan pretty much does know what folk want. It is up to them to let that individual know or not, or post it for the general populace or not. Ball is in their court so we have to play by their rules for now. Most of us actually have other things to occupy our time while waiting and we are very happily doing that while keeping an eye out for developments...other might not have that option or chose different options to while away the time. Hacking, screaming, temper tantrums, bad behavior only delay stuff for the rest of us. Of course those enacting the bad behavior persist in not seeing they are the issue here and blame everyone else and Cyan for the current circumstances. My disclaimer here is this: This is what I have observed thus these are my own personal observations not community opinion nor am I representing any other person, entity, blog, dalek or whatever others would want to style it. Let Cyan get on with what they have to do for now. I think despite opinions, they will come through for us. (I have been here since the original Prologue so I have a LOT of observation time logged, lol) It also may not be what folk 'think' should be done but that is not 'those' folk's call.... If you feel you can run Cyan...either win the lottery and buy them out or make your own game and go for it... We have enough talented folk or ones who style themselves as that talented....then go for it...world is really out there for you to take advantage of. I truly would love to see what you can accomplish and it would be wonderful to see someone create a groundbreaking new game.

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Moula:
DMom2K KI 74181
GameBoomer KI 83122

SL:
DMom2K Darwin

Citizen of the Metaverse and oh, yeah, The Dude abides....

Nice Post Dudemom, I cannot disagree with one word you have said, in fact I feel the same except I am not as good with words as yourself.. Absolute common sense, Thank You

Heaven wrote:

Maybe they don't want people poking around in their proprietary stuff. I know I wouldn't.

If this is the case, why would they claim to want to open source uru? It doesn't make sense.