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 Post subject: Disapointed !!!
PostPosted: Mon Nov 22, 2010 4:03 am 
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Location: Longueuil, Québec
Shorah to all,

I went just to make a comeback to MOULa with fans created ages and I must admit that I'm generally disapointed
of the vast majority of these ages.

1- The graphics are for most coarse or crude
2- Some are totally devoid of any interest. The best example is the Bowling age.

Maybe I'm missing something. I will continue to explore all these new ages to make
myself a better opinion.

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 Post subject: Re: Disapointed !!!
PostPosted: Mon Nov 22, 2010 10:20 am 
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Location: UK
ngc2392 wrote:
Shorah to all,

I went just to make a comeback to MOULa with fans created ages and I must admit that I'm generally disapointed
of the vast majority of these ages.

1- The graphics are for most coarse or crude
2- Some are totally devoid of any interest. The best example is the Bowling age.

Maybe I'm missing something. I will continue to explore all these new ages to make
myself a better opinion.


LOL Lunanne nice one. :D

@ngc2392
Don't take this the wrong way but are you intending on making some yoursself? The reason I ask as if you do then I think after a while you might change your tune. Yes some are as you say crude but this is a hobby we aren't paid to do this. Plus we haven't quite got all the tools Cyan has/had.

Where do you think people should start to learn...we all have to start at the bottom and work up.

Again I am not having a dig at you all I wish is that people do thier homework before commenting.

This is why some folks advocate group made ages. Texturers, coders, modellers, animators, etc all working together like in the real world, :D


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PostPosted: Mon Nov 22, 2010 10:56 pm 
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I'm moving this thread to the Fan Created Ages - General forum and I'd also like to throw in a note or two here:

Some of the fan ages will inevitably be of variable quality (whatever you interpret "quality" to be), if for no other reason than some will be the creator's first attempt on what is pretty steep learning curve. And you learn by putting things out there, and getting feedback (constructive feedback, that is).

If you pick a fan age at random, there's probably a bit of "pot luck" whether you get one of the more refined, later works from one of the more experienced agebuilders, or someones learning exercise. Generalised observations may miss some of the "nuggets" out there, but that doesn't mean ngc2392's disappointment is any less real for the ages he's tried so far.

While agebuilders will be able to critique each others work in a way that takes account of the technical or creative issues involved, there has to be a role for the non-technical, non-creative "play tester" to make observations too, as presumably they represent the mainstream "consumers" for Uru ages.

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Last edited by Mac_Fife on Mon Nov 22, 2010 10:57 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Mon Nov 22, 2010 11:56 pm 
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I don't make Cyan quality ages, I make Karkadann quality ages

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 Post subject: Re: Disapointed !!!
PostPosted: Tue Nov 23, 2010 1:57 am 
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Location: Nice France
ngc2392 wrote:
Maybe I'm missing something.

Of course you have the right to be disappointed. However, I find that you lack seriously of backtracking and also of generosity in your appreciation.

Of backtracking because, between the moment I gave you the link to get to the fan-Ages (Sat November 20, 2010 12:02 am) and this post (November 22, 2010 4:03 am), there was really very few time to judge and throw out 110 fan-Ages.

Of generosity because, as others point it out to you, what you depreciate in three concise sentences represents a long work and a hard investment for people which it is not the job and who do that over their leisure time. And not any kind words for Ages you liked.

I feel very at ease to write all that to you because I did not create any Age : I am quite unable to do it ! This is why it would never come to my mind to write that some of these Ages are "totally devoid of any interest", even if I did not like some of them, simply by respect for accomplished work.

At last, which is devoid of any interest for someone can be heavy of sense for other : http://forum.guildofwriters.com/viewtop ... =10&t=4830


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PostPosted: Tue Nov 23, 2010 2:45 am 
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Check out Vothol Gallery for an example of a very nice looking age, or Neolbah for a larger age with more content that still has quite high production values. :)

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PostPosted: Tue Nov 23, 2010 3:34 am 
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One of the things you most likely should have done is asked:

"Can anyone recommend some Fan Ages to try out?"

Of course that doesn't mean you should limit yourself only to suggestions by others of who's Age to download and give a spin, but as been said, there a MANY Fan Ages out there, some the first works of people, others that have had a LOT of time and effort put into them.
Some Ages are for looks only, no story or puzzles. Some have story and / or puzzles, but may not look that good.

The history of Fan created Ages is long and rich. When I first started, we couldn't even put SOUNDS in our Ages except for foot steps!
Over the last 3 years, we've seen a explosion of development (much of which can't be discussed here I'm afraid), and then this past spring Cyan released their tools they actually use with 3DS Max.

Creating a good looking Age takes time. LOTS of time. Those of us doing it are doing it because we want to. Not because we clock in at Cyan and get a pay check for doing it. Many are spending their 8 hours or more a day at their real job and then come home and try to spend a few hours of work on an Age.
Some of us (like me) are very lucky and work out of home so we can dedicate much more time to it. But again it takes time. Even when you have more than one person working on it, it takes a lot of time.

But I've always thought time time and effort is worth the wait. I've just spend a few weeks remastering Serene, a small garden Age, with no story, nor anything really to do there, in 3DS Max with Cyan's plugin. Now there will be stuff to do, and there's a story.

I'll be releasing it sometime this week:

[spoiler]Image[/spoiler]

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PostPosted: Tue Nov 23, 2010 7:56 am 
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andylegate wrote:
I'll be releasing it sometime this week:

8) Great news, Andy! Awesome!


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PostPosted: Tue Nov 23, 2010 8:01 am 
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I think that your point of view is somehow out of phase, so to say, and very probably you don't know the long and winding road to reveal the technical side of age creation. As the others have already pointed out, the learning of the age creation process was something similar to the exploration of a huge cave system in the complete darkness, without any torches or even matches. Yes, several Ages have crude textures and they lack interactivity. Several of the ages are clearly experimental ones, "first tries". Mind you, in the year 1940 or so the movies were black-and white, without Dolby surround, no Cinemascope or wide-screen, not to mention 3D. Even so, "Casablanca" is still one of the best movies of the history.

Please ngc2392, start from the scratch and try to create "Cyan quality" ages. For example, the modelling of a world in Eskimo nebula (ngc2392) would be a good start...

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PostPosted: Tue Nov 23, 2010 9:45 am 
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Well… ngc2392 was blunt and gave an opinion of the ages he/she saw. When ngc2392 said may be he/she was missing something… it’s obvious several of us think so. However, we also need to consider how that blunt honesty and our tolerance and engagement in age building fit together.

I think it is obvious that age builders’ understanding the complexities of creating ages shifts how they see ages. It is with a very different eye and mind set than players new to MOULa and fan content. While it is nice to be caring of novice builders’ feelings, there is also a place for blunt honesty. Knowing that most new players do not plan to be age builders and are looking only for entertainment is something the community may be forgetting.

If the goal is to assure the survival of Uru and we consider survival as meaning Uru is to be more than just something for a few of us and the age builders, then we have several challenges to meet. Uru as we have known it is a game that addicts players to new content. When it is not there, players leave, minimal player retention.

The time and skill needed to build quality content and the supply of it is unlikely to ever meet the demand. Imagine the movie being made and literally millions pouring into the game to be met with a mix of high quality Cyan content and a little high quality fan content, consuming it and then moving on to fan content and consuming the higher quality content and then moving on to the lower quality content… Not an ideal situation. It is a recipe for training new players that Uru is a devolving game.

Whether or not the builders can build quality fast enough and whether the programmers can figure out and add the player features needed for good player retention is unknown. There is really little we can do to know the answer until we get a license that tells us how we can use and interact with Cyan content.

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PostPosted: Tue Nov 23, 2010 1:26 pm 
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No offence intended, I only thought that a straight opinion needed a straight answer.
Simply our attitudes toward the same facts are different. When about two or three years ago I downloaded the first fan ages and I entered "Second Age of Dustin" or "Vaiskor" or the one nothing else but a very simple bridge in the fog (I don't remember its name), my first reaction was not "disappointed" but "Wow! They could already create that one. The next one would be surely even better."
By the way, I suggest Adrael via DMA Office.

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PostPosted: Tue Nov 23, 2010 3:18 pm 
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Well put, Nalates. You don't have to know how to cook before you are allowed to express your opinion on Chef's special :wink:

Explorer's cannot read the minds of the Age creators and they have no way to tell if an Age is complete or still being worked on. You may have excellent concepts in your head for your Age, and may have not had time to build it, but I only see what is there.

Maybe the fan Ages should have something similar to the URU CC where you enter the Age in stages until the creator of the Age is ready to open the whole Age. Barricades? "Under construction" signs? Abandoned projects could maybe be withdrawn from public access?...

Anyhow, I HAVE seen some fantastic things and I look foward to more details to discover and hidden nooks to explore.
In fact, to me the main difference between fan Ages in general and CYAN Ages is in the details.


oh, and Norfren, you never cease to impress me with your knowledge... I never knew Eskimos had a nebula :lol:

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PostPosted: Wed Nov 24, 2010 1:30 am 
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EthanEver wrote:
...

oh, and Norfren, you never cease to impress me with your knowledge... I never knew Eskimos had a nebula :lol:

You will see an image of the "Eskimo" Nebula at the next link...
http://antwrp.gsfc.nasa.gov/apod/ap090503.html

Click the first image to get a bigger one. (1500X1500)


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 Post subject: Fan created ages?
PostPosted: Sat Nov 27, 2010 7:31 am 
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Location: Australia
Didn't even know these existed until today. How can I access them? Can't find information on this on other forums. Please explain in simple language; I am not a veteran player and not particularly knowledgeable about computers.


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