Post new topic Reply to topic

Page 2 of 9
Go to page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9  Next

Topic

Paradox

Joined: 09 May 2006

Posts: 1178

Location: British Columbia, Canada

Reply with quote

Post Posted: Wed Jan 12, 2011 6:56 am — Post subject:

Tai'lahr wrote:

Actually, it's entirely irrelevant. I see no point in continuing to criticize Cyan about how they chose to execute the technical aspects of this puzzle when the real issue is in their failure to provide enough information to maintain our interest until its conclusion.



To be fair, I'm not criticising Cyan for the way they implemented this. In fact I think it's a really good way of storing the score, and it's implemented so that accessing that score in order to change things is easy.

However, I think it's also clear that (at least client-side) Cyan never had a chance to finish what they were hoping to do with this. It might be a case of delaying until the lake was actually reaching values where it would be lit before adding the code, or if they were ready to add the code in the next release when MOUL was cancelled.

Regardless, at the moment, you can't expect to see any change as a result of dropping pellets (which is perfectly in line with what RAWA said about MOULagain and storyline).

JWPlatt

Creative Kingdoms

Joined: 09 May 2006

Posts: 5759

Location: Everywhere, all at once

Reply with quote

Post Posted: Wed Jan 12, 2011 9:05 am — Post subject:

Paradox wrote:

...which is perfectly in line with what RAWA said about MOULagain and storyline).


I'm just going to go with a theme here: I don't believe that's entirely accurate. Source quote, regarding pellets?


_________________
OpenUru.org: An Uru Project Resource Site : Twitter : Perfect Speed Is Being There.

Tai'lahr

Joined: 15 Mar 2007

Posts: 3195

Location: Revelations' Hood, est. 26 Feb 2007

Reply with quote

Post Posted: Wed Jan 12, 2011 2:59 pm — Post subject:

Ah, I think I see your point now, Paradox. Since Cyan said that we shouldn't expect any new content in MOULA (unless it reaches CAVCON 5) and since no code can be found to make it happen automatically, you're saying that pellet dropping won't light the lake "at the moment." However, you do acknowledge that the code to implement the changes is probably in the pipeline ready to go. And, we know RAWA is watching the numbers on a daily basis. So, I believe that (regardless of the CAVCON level) once the magic number is hit, Cyan will implement the change.

But, believing that is still not enough to inspire me to participate in this project. If this were RL, someone would have declared the pellets ineffective a long time ago and new methods would have been attempted until some sort of result (good or bad) could be documented.

I know that natural restoration projects take many man hours and many years to implement and make a difference, but all along the way, there are small, but significant results to indicate whether the project is on the right track or not. I'm not an impatient person, but Uru is supposed to be like RL and in this case, it fails.


_________________
OpenUru.org Minkata Test Shard is
OU-Minkata Shard Testers Guide (in laymen's terms)

mszv

Joined: 10 May 2006

Posts: 2229

Reply with quote

Post Posted: Wed Jan 12, 2011 3:28 pm — Post subject:

Excellent analysis, OHB!

I'm not dropping pellets, but that's me. The pellet stuff is always, well, let's just say "annoying" to me. It's hard for me to understand why someone would start something and then not fix it, particularly something that was broken when Cyan still had resources.

Then again, this doesn't "annoy" me as much as the episodes.


_________________
Retired forum mod, mszv, amarez in Uru (KI 89257), other online games
Blog - http://www.amarez.com, Twitter - http://www.twitter.com/amareze

RAWA

Cyan Employee

Joined: 09 May 2006

Posts: 257

Location: Spokane, WA

Reply with quote

Post Posted: Thu Jan 13, 2011 5:10 pm — Post subject:

Tai'lahr wrote:

I really wish Cyan had invested more in this "storyline" to provide us with the ability to investigate the issue in an IC manner and deduce legitimate goals that we could work towards (or against).


I do, too. In this particular instance, it is unfortunate that I do not control the universe. :)

A few clarifications (major spoilers within):

1) The lake lighting was designed to be an interactive project over a long period of time (measured in months and years, not days and weeks), and the DRC members were meant to be around to help contribute to the algae research (providing nudges and additional information) as time passed. They aren't around now, so you're working even more "in the dark" than you were intended to be, but you're doing great. Keep it up, but only if you are so inclined. :)

2) "Lake Health" is a misleading label for the "Lake Total" number given in the first post of this thread, think of it more as the total "calories" that have been given to the algae since the Cavern reopened. Even though the algae has consumed most of that food in the meantime, that variable is keeping track of the total amount of food deposited since the beginning. Because of the confusion inherent in this number, it was not intended for public display.

3) Though there are repeated claims that there is absolutely no effect in the Cavern, that is not the case, even today. It is true that nothing in the client does anything with that "total calories" number. It was never intended to... directly. The lake lighting project is much, much more complex than "We've given the lake x amount of food since the beginning, so the light level should be y."

In fact, every day that number is entered into an "algae simulator" which then determines what effects it had on the algae colonies that day based on the number of calories that were provided that day, that week, etc.

At the time the Cavern closed, there wasn't enough "live" data for me to want to lock down the algae simulation. It was being done by me offline, and the effects in the Cavern were to be done by hand by me, with the idea that it would some day be able to be automated once I felt the simulation was ready to be locked down.

As it is, the algae simulation is still done by me offline based on the daily pellet contributions. The simulation has been adjusted a few times to make it more forgiving, based on the "live" data collected this past year. The effects in the Cavern are still updated by me by hand, when necessary.

[Note: Since the lake lighting project is still in progress, further details of the simulation will not be released. Thanks in advance for resisting the urge to ask for them. :)]
4) The effects on the lake are subtle, and they are not analog. There are a very limited number of states for the lake light, so the light level in the Cavern is only intended to be changed at specific light level thresholds.

[Aside: This was the major problem with the "Dalek" meter by the lake. The number it reported represented the number of the current lake light threshold, so it would have been months before it ever changed. It was actually counter productive, as it didn't show any of the progress between those thresholds. "Hey, we've been putting in pellets for weeks, but the number on the Dalek isn't increasing at all." IC response, "Oh, the meter is broken, we'll try to fix it at some point." which is a very rough translation of the OOC reality, "It was really just meant to provide evidence that the DRC are tracking the light levels, not to provide immediate, short-term pellet feedback; which it cannot do because the algae simulator is not locked down, and the server currently only has that threshold number available to look at."]

The lake light "threshold" has been updated (raised and lowered) as necessary several times this last year. The effect in the Cavern is visible today. No code update required, as I have stated in previous posts.

5) When the Cavern closed, the lake lighting project was very low priority. The first light threshold was still months away at the earliest, and there were many higher priorities to work on in the meantime. The original intent was for there to be more significant changes at the various light levels. But those updates were never made. Such is life.

What we have available now, as I have said before, is not flashy like the Great Zero activation. It is very subtle and only visible from specific vantage points, but what I have to work with is there and working right now. But if you're doing it for a giant visual reward, you'll be disappointed.
I know I'm repeating myself from previous posts on this subject, but it bears repeating that this is definitely a "the journey is the reward" type of project. If that isn't your cup of tea, I'm definitely ok with that. Do something else that you enjoy more. Please.

However, if you want to contribute to a long-term, group effort project, keep it up, you're doing great! :)


_________________
CYAN - Richard A. Watson

sideshow118

Joined: 25 May 2006

Posts: 509

Reply with quote

Post Posted: Thu Jan 13, 2011 5:37 pm — Post subject:

Thank you RAWA or taking the time to more fully explain how the lake lighting project works. I've often dropped into the cavern and thought "humm, the lake seems a tad brighter today," only to be reasurred I was imagining things. I know others have posted similar claims on the formum. It's nice to know we weren't completely wrong. I think. Confused

lunanne

Joined: 10 Oct 2009

Posts: 475

Reply with quote

Post Posted: Thu Jan 13, 2011 5:44 pm — Post subject:

RAWA wrote:


However, if you want to contribute to a long-term, group effort project, keep it up, you're doing great! Smile



What!? I am just trying to get to the top of the imager in the Bevin! Razz

But that is good to hear ,RAWA , it will feel slightly less useless now.


only two million to go....I will /get/ there

dropping pellets is the perfect excuse for procrastination.


_________________
It's a video game...

mszv

Joined: 10 May 2006

Posts: 2229

Reply with quote

Post Posted: Thu Jan 13, 2011 6:36 pm — Post subject:

Ok, then, if there really is something to look at, something new in terms of illumination, then I'll go look!


_________________
Retired forum mod, mszv, amarez in Uru (KI 89257), other online games
Blog - http://www.amarez.com, Twitter - http://www.twitter.com/amareze

needmoremyst

Joined: 21 Mar 2008

Posts: 35

Location: pick a day

Reply with quote

Post Posted: Thu Jan 13, 2011 8:05 pm — Post subject:

Thank you RAWA, it's good to know that getting all 'pellet buggie eyed' is for more than just a number.


_________________
Silence is Golden, Duct tape is Silver
KI# 141725

JWPlatt

Creative Kingdoms

Joined: 09 May 2006

Posts: 5759

Location: Everywhere, all at once

Reply with quote

Post Posted: Thu Jan 13, 2011 8:09 pm — Post subject:

That would be entirely accurate. Wink

Thanks, RAWA.


_________________
OpenUru.org: An Uru Project Resource Site : Twitter : Perfect Speed Is Being There.

tanshin

Joined: 05 Mar 2010

Posts: 2209

Location: CT, US

Reply with quote

Post Posted: Thu Jan 13, 2011 8:17 pm — Post subject:

sideshow118 wrote:

Thank you RAWA or taking the time to more fully explain how the lake lighting project works. I've often dropped into the cavern and thought "humm, the lake seems a tad brighter today," only to be reasurred I was imagining things. I know others have posted similar claims on the formum. It's nice to know we weren't completely wrong. I think. Confused



I've actually done the same thing, usually with people saying that it's just me. I usually try to take a snapshot from the same spot as visual reference. I'll have to poke in and see if I can see anything different in the shots.

I guess I'm not crazy after all! Thanks RAWA Smile


_________________

The Public Age Project | Owner of Eastern Time Zone's Bevin

pokemon71096

Joined: 09 Mar 2010

Posts: 1185

Reply with quote

Post Posted: Thu Jan 13, 2011 8:21 pm — Post subject:

ah,, i no will resume pellet dropping!
occasionally. i'm not a huge fan.
(I'm imagining a clip from the "making of myst" seeing RAWA dopping pellets into a tiny virtual lake for simulation...)


_________________
Love Jesus the Lord our God. Also I am not affiliated with HeadSpin or Cyan.

D'Lanor

Joined: 09 May 2006

Posts: 3415

Location: Lost in the void

Reply with quote

Post Posted: Thu Jan 13, 2011 8:56 pm — Post subject:

Well... yes, I'll admit there is that bit on the client side. I just never thought... I mean... it is so old! Shocked

Oh btw, you folks are still imagining it. Wink

And the current lake score is 86,386,695 Smile


_________________
D'Lanor (ɹǝʇunч puǝƃǝן uɐqɹn)

KI# 33949

TOOO

Joined: 05 Jun 2007

Posts: 1052

Location: Still looking for the elusive Funky Bahro.

Reply with quote

Post Posted: Thu Jan 13, 2011 9:26 pm — Post subject:

In the Interim (which, I have to admit, sounds like the title of a bad anthology series), I'm dropping pellets in a (mostly vain) attempt to draw attention to my various and sundry Neighborhoods. Especially Karaoke, hint hint hint.


_________________
New to Uru? See this video.

KI numbers:
TOOO 194360
SkydiverTOOO 347569
Karaoke TOOO 9298427

Second Life: TOOO Fall

Mac_Fife

Uru Live Moderator

Joined: 10 Nov 2006

Posts: 3147

Location: Scotland

Reply with quote

Post Posted: Thu Jan 13, 2011 9:42 pm — Post subject:

/me wonders if the algae simulation model will eventually be open-sourced Confused Very Happy


_________________
Mac - MOULagain KI#00004826
In the interests of the environment, this post has been constructed entirely from recycled electrons.

All times are GMT

Jump to:

Post new topic Reply to topic

Page 2 of 9
Go to page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9  Next

You can…

You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum