While we're at it, how about a transcript of the D'ni recording in the 'hood auditorium?

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Officially bonked R.E.B.E.L.
Falling Man Group Secretary
Storyteller & Creatrix
MOULAgain Houligan KI#00001498

Yes, that garglled thing! T'would be nice to have a good recording or transcription of it to learn more D'ni.

I love the D'ni language, it is one of the things that adds soo much depth to the cavern and story.

And I want real D'ni in UL, not stuff done by someone who doesn't "know what they're doing".

NO D'NINGLISH!

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Actually, although it is superficially similar to Hebrew, in fact D'ni is already very similar to English

Stemming most likely from the fact that the Millers are American - we can seldom help but bring in aspects of our native tongue to invented languages.

One could also surmise that the Hebraic similarity comes from the fact that Rand's father was a pastor, and thus probably had some knowledge of the language, or at least that the Millers came into frequent contact with it.

The inflectional system of D'ni is a little simplistic. Not that that's a terrible thing, or one that precludes its ability to be actually spoken, but, well, it just seems that a race as complex, scholarly and patient as the D'ni would have an equally complex language. But maybe they do. There are certain elements, such as tonal and mood inflections, and a lot more, that Cyan could have "cut out" of the language they show us, so our minds could actually wrap around it without too much pain and suffering.

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Silence. Introspection.
The weighing of possibilities.
Inking the pen,
eyeing over the Elements.

I always assumed it was RAWA, not the Millers, who designed the D'ni language and people. Am I wrong?

I'm not certain how much of it is RAWA's doing. Some of the basic language, as evident in Myst and probably Riven (forgive me RAWA, if I'm incorrect) seems to have existed prior to his work, so I'm guessing that the very basic structure was laid out by the Millers in the beginning. Creating words is another story.

Anyone from the DLF around to set us straight?

Andrew

_________________
Silence. Introspection.
The weighing of possibilities.
Inking the pen,
eyeing over the Elements.

Actually I was thinking something similar but refined. While the D'ni language is simplistic in comparison to what we know of the civilization; it could be that way on purpose. They refined and honed the language so that it is direct and pointed towards the conversations they may have. Most of what we know about the written D'ni language is just that, written. We do not know that they would have written in open sight a verbal or everyday spoken language such as we use slang today.

Their written language, of which we know of now, may be very compact in comparison to spoken languages we use on land. Having been down there without outside influence may have allowed them to become a very concise people where anything written was a simpler form of their language. Many languages do this. Take for instance the sentence: He and I are going to the store. In english as well as many other language this has been simplified as: We're going to the store. What if the D'ni had come up with contractions and many other ways of simplifing their language. Short and sweet, but very powerful as words could mean/suggest multiple ideas or phrases depending on prefixes and suffixes.

So I wouldnt say that the D'ni language doesnt fit the expansive idea of their civilization, it has just been refined. And remember, in the BoD, the related civilization they met had indeed a similar but different spoken language than the D'ni. This again is something that happens quite frequently and could help to explain the idea of a refined language, spoken or written.

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If you are not part of the solution, then you are a gas.

But D'ni as we know it is not very powerful, nor refined. A powerful and concise language would be more like Latin, or rather like Latin without its abominable five declensions. There could be small markers for tone, mood, half a dozen tenses we don't know about, etc.

The pattern with human language is always from complexity to less complexity, from intricate to less so and more prepositional. However, "book language", the language of written words, always tends to be more complex than spoken, because it doesn't decay on paper, but in speech.

I still think, however, tha it's possible the D'ni we've been given is "toned down" to a lesser level of precision and intricacy. If that's the case, I want the real stuff.

Andrew

_________________
Silence. Introspection.
The weighing of possibilities.
Inking the pen,
eyeing over the Elements.

then we need the lexicon

True, a Rehevkor would be great, however, there is not one yet or everyone would be using it. And I do agree that the influence of the D'ni we have currently met or interacted with in the Myst series are at best, 1/2 to 1/4 D'ni, with the exception of Escher. Still, the evidence of what we have found so far suggests that the D'ni may have had more than just a written and spoken language. There was also the "Book Writing" language which was taught and kept secretive for the most part. D'ni could be very complex, however what I was getting at, is while it is complex in structure doesnt necessarily mean its complex in form. Any group of words, no matter how small, can be simplified through the use of contractions, prefixes, and suffixes. Example, what if instead of saying: use, uses, used, user, using - u said something like usea, usei, rusea and that those 3 forms made the use of all the different forms of the word; noun, verb, adverb, adjective, pronoun, etc. This is what I have been seeing more oft then not in the D'ni language. Simplified refined structure while the complexity is based upon the root word and the few suffix/prefix/contractn's that can be added. It's like one word means 10 different things based upon one symbol ahead or behind it.

I agree though, if we could find or receive a way of learning the full structure and language set, as in a Rehevkor, bring it on. I would love to learn D'ni as a third language.

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If you are not part of the solution, then you are a gas.

Eleri wrote:

While we're at it, how about a transcript of the D'ni recording in the 'hood auditorium?

is this it?

http://www.dpwr.net/archive.php?showarticle=1636

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Stevecrox wrote:

Eleri wrote:

While we're at it, how about a transcript of the D'ni recording in the 'hood auditorium?

is this it?

http://www.dpwr.net/archive.php?showarticle=1636

No, that's the paper in the classroom. We're talking about the distorted audio recording in the auditorium.

We're working on a transcript at the moment over at the DLF.

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.reprad kenen nahr
.redoyhah pradteegahl kenen shin b'hahrten gah b'foles

KI# 45434

I think my answer to this poll is obvious...

The trouble transcribing/translating the Kirel podium speech has much to do with its poor recording quality... the static really obscures important aspects of the speech, and the speaker speaks it very quickly, so a lot of the detail we might be able to extract out of a slower and/or clearer recording are lost. I asked in a thread over at drcsite.org whether RAWA has a transcription at all, seeing as how he's been remarkably generous as of late with language tidbits, but this ain't no tidbit, and alas, no response just yet...

I'm pretty certain RAWA is the driving creative force behind the D'ni language, though I can't quote you any sources. Waaay back in the early days, I remember hearing a rumor that he had a linguistics professor or two help him out, but that may be apocryphal.

As for D'ni classes in the cavern (I'm glad to hear that there's interest in it!) plans are underway... keep an ear to the ground.

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An open community of scholars, explorers, and enthusiasts of the languages of the D'ni and their many Ages

I've been dablin in the D'ni linguistics for a whyle. i get lotsa joy out of it. The thing i wish, though, is that there were more people around close by that i could speak D'ni with. I think that'd be a great thing to do together. go to the grocery and discuss something meat related in line and watch for odd looks, i dunno. it would be great.

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