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 Post subject: Public hacking
PostPosted: Mon Mar 21, 2011 12:26 am 
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yet another violation of the rules set forth by Cyan. Tonight starting around 5PM cavern time odd things began happening in the public instance of Ae'gura including groups of people suddenly jumping very high into the air. I support the Grey Hats, though I dont necessarily agree with some of them and I don't think these events are their group of people but it saddens me to see things like this happen because they're detrimental to the hope that Uru will ever be developed further.

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PostPosted: Mon Mar 21, 2011 12:39 am 
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well, in light of cyan approved content at least they let them tinker in approved areas. suposidly this is supposed to be a learning experience to put towards fan made content (when and if that ever occurs :roll: )

but, it's unanimously agreed that these public hackings need to stop. the grey hats, by their admission, would not support these breaches in conduct. obviously, it's outside the bounds set forth by rawa. however, it falls to the grey hats to see that these violations of the rules no longer happen. i've not experienced them myself but it's obvious people are becomming preturbed by them.

i hope there are efforts being made towards eliminating these public instance hacks.


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PostPosted: Mon Mar 21, 2011 10:55 am 
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Main_Avvie wrote:
... however, it falls to the grey hats to see that these violations of the rules no longer happen...

Not really - the grey hats have no more control over people outside of their group than any other member of the community. I don't know, but probably the only recourse would be for Cyan to ban the perpetrators by IP address.

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PostPosted: Mon Mar 21, 2011 12:26 pm 
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Within a community it sometimes becomes necessary to use peer pressure to resolve issues, the problem with peer pressure is it tens to get out of hand. and turn into a Witch Hunt. Cyan has stated the reasons why MOULa will be shut down, and the hackers who are violating the rules (assuming thats what is happening) that would bring about this unfortunate event seem unconcerned about this for what ever reason. Whether the Goal of these people is to see MOULa shut down or whether they are just satisfying some unfulfilled control need and are unconcerned about how it will effects others I have no way of knowing. However I believe that this is something that we must all deal with because in some way it will effect all of us. Without Cyan's MOULa we would have no Uru Live Would We?

Perhaps its time we put our differences aside and work together to help resolve this issue.

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Last edited by Karkadann on Sat Apr 02, 2011 2:11 am, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Mon Mar 21, 2011 1:21 pm 
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well, mac_fife, whoever's responsibility it is, somebody must enforce the rules. otherwise, there might as very well not be any rules.

i too am afraid that individuals unconcerned about what repercussions their antics might have will bring MOULa down either because they want to or because they simply don't care.

it might also be the case that the grey hats ligitimate activities be suspended even indefinently if there are others who continue to violate the terms of these hacks. so i'd imagine it would be in their best interest to try and help resolve this issue themselves in whatever way they can.


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PostPosted: Mon Mar 21, 2011 2:21 pm 
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But even if the Grey Hats' activities were to be suspended, I doubt these things would stop. Sure the sanctioning wouldn't be there, but people still have the tools and are still figuring out how to get in and hack. I think at this point the only viable option would be to find who is responsible and stop them. But even then that plan isn't fool proof (IP spoofing/changing, multiple accounts, etc) and would probably just make them want revenge.

Sigh...

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PostPosted: Mon Mar 21, 2011 3:24 pm 
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I can't see how the grey hats can stop anyone from doing anything -- they are just players like the rest of us. And I believe the grey hats when they say it's not them. And, of course, stopping the grey hats would not do a darn thing to stop the hacks people don't like.

I have no answers here -- this seems like a Cyan issue to me, unless there are technical folks out there who have suggestions.

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PostPosted: Mon Mar 21, 2011 3:33 pm 
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depends on how malicious whoever it is would be willing to be. seems as though this individual has little to no regard for what he's doing or else he would be taking more care about doing it. not that i would know, but perhaps this individual is making mistakes and affecting the public instance unknowingly or unwittingly.

true, suspending the grey hats activities would probably do little if anything to cease unsanctioned hacking of uru period. which is no good for them and does nothing to alleviate the issue. unfortunately for everyone, if illicit hacking continues regardless the worst response could be that cyan pulls the plug.

the only real deterrent for a truely mallicious assault would be for cyan to take legal action, which i'm sure they would rather not occupy their time with. if uru was to be completely mangled at the hands of a mallicious hacker pulling the plug would be beside the point if it renders the game unplayable anyway.

of course, all the reports we've seen is that a few people have been picked up and dropped in the public instance, which is beyond the boundaries set forth by cyan but is hardly mallicious. still, it's not supposed to happen and should be stopped.


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PostPosted: Mon Mar 21, 2011 4:34 pm 
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They cant truly damage the game as Cyan has backups of everything. The worst case scenario is the vault becomes corrupted and we have to have a vault wipe.. which sucks big time. That basically resets everything to zero meaning we all have to create new avatars and everybody starts over. This has happened at least 3 times in Uru's nearly ten year history and it's terrible for advertising purposes. I guarantee a lot of people would leave if they had to start from scratch again.

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PostPosted: Mon Mar 21, 2011 4:45 pm 
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And that is, in essence, a virtual game shutdown for many of us. Definitely something to avoid.

Now, if they have backups of the game, do they have backups of the vault that they could restore?

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PostPosted: Mon Mar 21, 2011 4:55 pm 
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Loshem wrote:
They cant truly damage the game as Cyan has backups of everything. The worst case scenario is the vault becomes corrupted and we have to have a vault wipe.. which sucks big time. That basically resets everything to zero meaning we all have to create new avatars and everybody starts over. This has happened at least 3 times in Uru's nearly ten year history and it's terrible for advertising purposes. I guarantee a lot of people would leave if they had to start from scratch again.


I for one would not be put off starting all over again. In fact, it might even give me the opportunity to correct past mistakes (like messing up my attempt to create a neighborhood). I would not leave, and would try to encourage others to stay as well. I know that for me, a day's solid play would see me back to the point where I am now, if I was able to get some help with the non-solo parts.

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PostPosted: Mon Mar 21, 2011 5:04 pm 
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Alien wrote:
I for one would not be put off starting all over again. In fact, it might even give me the opportunity to correct past mistakes (like messing up my attempt to create a neighborhood). I would not leave, and would try to encourage others to stay as well. I know that for me, a day's solid play would see me back to the point where I am now, if I was able to get some help with the non-solo parts.


You can always create a new avatar (or delete your old one and recreate it) if you want to play through the game again.

But back to the original topic: The problem, of course, is that whoever that mean person/people is, he's able to do this stuff with impunity, because Cyan presumably doesn't have the resources to put into investigating and taking action against the perpetrator. But other posters are right, in that revoking the hacking privilege from the respectful, law-abiding grey hats wouldn't have any effect on the black hat. There is, of course, the technological solution of closing the vulnerabilities that allow the hacks in the first place (which is in any case an eventuality once open source happens), but presently, that would also require resources that Cyan doesn't have.

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PostPosted: Mon Mar 21, 2011 5:29 pm 
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tanshin wrote:
And that is, in essence, a virtual game shutdown for many of us. Definitely something to avoid.

Now, if they have backups of the game, do they have backups of the vault that they could restore?


Restoring the vault and "vault-wipe" are the same thing. The Vault is just an affectionate term given to what is essentially just a big mess of information grouped together in nodes that all reference each other. It's a big spider-webby mess but its the glue on the back-end that keeps everything together. A lot of the way things work are only based on your own avatar and not everyone at the same time. That's why you can have two people in the same instance of Teledahn and shroomie only appear for one of them. It's also why the "illusions" from the fun house carry over to other Ages when you leave. All "hackers" are actually doing is changing values in that collection of data such as "x causes this animation to play" or "x is the position of this avatar".

The problem is that because everything references everything else, if you change something and don't know what you're doing it'll cause those other references to lead nowhere, or worse: back to the original node. Playing with the vault has the potential to break everything if done improperly and the only way to fix that is to reset it all to the way it started.

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PostPosted: Mon Mar 21, 2011 6:08 pm 
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So there's really no way to restore an image of it or something similar? Even if it has the same structure as, say, from March 14th, it still wouldn't work right?

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PostPosted: Mon Mar 21, 2011 6:15 pm 
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I'm not an expert on it. The vault is huge.. millions and millions of nodes. I suppose there might be a way to preserve it in a certain state but the tools to do that are probably Cyan internal. If you want to know more about the vault I'd suggest getting in touch with OHB about it. I don't claim to be an expert. I've never tampered with the vault, I've only seen it,

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