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PostPosted: Wed Aug 31, 2011 6:56 am 
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Main_Avvie wrote:
why have so many technical issues marred so much content?

minkata sparklie: disabled due to technical issues
gahreesen wall: scrapped due to technical issues
kahlo age: delayed due to presumed technical issues
lake light meter: removed due to technical issues

:?

Short answer: because the game was never finished.

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PostPosted: Wed Aug 31, 2011 7:24 am 
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As far as Kahlo is concerned, the Age is FAR from finished. While the models and textures exist (albeit quite outdated by now) none of the actual wiring was done. Meaning nothing works. If Kahlo were released in its present state it'd be nothing but "pretty decent" scenery.

Ive looked quite a bit into the development of Kahlo and heard whispers from various sources over the years. Kahlo was planned as an extension of the Kahlo pub (that ruined pub in Ae'gura) If the stories are to be believed, Kahlo Pub was supposed to be a sort of speakeasy where illegal gambling was held. People would link to Kahlo and some sort of flying races would take place on the backs of creatures. The races would be filmed and broadcast back to the imagers in the pub where the outcome of the races were bet on. You can see paintings of people riding these creatures in Kemo.

Now that's just a basic description of the story aspect of it.. If any of that was to be realized there'd need to be several sophisticated systems implemented: the creatures and mechanics of riding them, the live broadcasts (which would also mean the pub would need to be properly restored) etc. There's very little chance of seeing Kahlo finished until things start moving again. Also, this is just my own speculation but due to the similarity to the concept art I believe some of the assets for the Kahlo flyers were used for the aquatic creatures in the Dereno pod.

Now the Minkata spark we will see turned on eventually. It's a very simple fix and someone just needs to find the time to do it. Its just a matter of time for that one.

The Gahreesen Wall is also a possibility as it has been working before. It's never worked properly 100% of the time so theres lots of bugs to fix and it needs to be made compatible with the PhsyX engine since it was designed around Havoc. I'm sure our open source community could get The Wall up and running in no time.

The lake light meter never had any technical issues. It was actually removed because people were using it to hypothesize the lake light in real time. The lake has a few states of brightness (5 if memory serves) and these states are manually adjusted based on various values. Lighting the lake was always a project intended to be measured in months and years, not days and weeks. People looked at the light meter and thought their efforts were having no effect. The reality is that the states are adjusted so infrequently that it cant be measured in real time.

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PostPosted: Wed Aug 31, 2011 11:04 am 
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I've never heard anything to suggest that it was planned for the pub to have live updates from the Age...

I have *definitely* heard that the Pub did have that before the fall, but never that it was planned for the pub in uru to have that feature.

Care to share your source on that?

I have repeatedly heard that the reason it was cancelled was that they never got the flying creature riding right, but there's not a whole lot of extra information regarding the issues. Again, while I've very often heard about the creatures being the issue, never have I heard the Imagers were an issue, too. =P


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PostPosted: Wed Aug 31, 2011 11:42 am 
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According to an e-mail from Cyan employee Eric Anderson, Kahlo was supposed to be a multiplayer age where teams of players would ride the flying critters and score points against each other. The Kahlo Pub, in Ae'gura, is the place where the D'ni citizens would gather and gamble on the results of the game.

Source: MYSTlore

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PostPosted: Wed Aug 31, 2011 12:59 pm 
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veralun wrote:
Quote:
According to an e-mail from Cyan employee Eric Anderson, Kahlo was supposed to be a multiplayer age where teams of players would ride the flying critters and score points against each other. The Kahlo Pub, in Ae'gura, is the place where the D'ni citizens would gather and gamble on the results of the game.

Source: MYSTlore


And nowhere in that quote does it say that the match would be viewable live in the pub. Only that before the fall *D'ni* would gather and gamble on the results. No mention of live viewing on the imagers, or of *explorers* gambling.


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PostPosted: Wed Aug 31, 2011 1:04 pm 
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kaelisebonrai wrote:
veralun wrote:
Quote:
According to an e-mail from Cyan employee Eric Anderson, Kahlo was supposed to be a multiplayer age where teams of players would ride the flying critters and score points against each other. The Kahlo Pub, in Ae'gura, is the place where the D'ni citizens would gather and gamble on the results of the game.

Source: MYSTlore


And nowhere in that quote does it say that the match would be viewable live in the pub. Only that before the fall *D'ni* would gather and gamble on the results. No mention of live viewing on the imagers, or of *explorers* gambling.

Indeed. One can certainly infer that it might work that way in the game, but given the technology it seems incredibly unlikely this inference is a correct one. Unfortunately the source email referenced (but not directly quoted) no longer seems to exist, so in addition this description is already second-hand at best.

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PostPosted: Wed Aug 31, 2011 5:57 pm 
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Getting back to the critical question about where the Concert Hall is, or would be.

I'll make the case that it is below the Foyer, and thus above Kadish Gallery. From the far end of the Ferry terminal, but not thru the door, looking up at the Foyer, you see a curved balcony basically below it, a bit to one side. That seems to work. Best seen from the little dock behind the locked gate. However there are several possibilities under the foyer. One seems to be positioned low enough that it was intended to be a balcony to a room to the right (facing the doors) of the Kadish Gallery.


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PostPosted: Sat Sep 03, 2011 3:09 am 
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Deledrius wrote:
kaelisebonrai wrote:
veralun wrote:
Quote:
According to an e-mail from Cyan employee Eric Anderson, Kahlo was supposed to be a multiplayer age where teams of players would ride the flying critters and score points against each other. The Kahlo Pub, in Ae'gura, is the place where the D'ni citizens would gather and gamble on the results of the game.

Source: MYSTlore


And nowhere in that quote does it say that the match would be viewable live in the pub. Only that before the fall *D'ni* would gather and gamble on the results. No mention of live viewing on the imagers, or of *explorers* gambling.

Indeed. One can certainly infer that it might work that way in the game, but given the technology it seems incredibly unlikely this inference is a correct one. Unfortunately the source email referenced (but not directly quoted) no longer seems to exist, so in addition this description is already second-hand at best.


Regardless of the lore, the age would be pretty fun completed. It's definitely an OS type of thing. And if the Kahlo Pub were restored it would be a cool place to gather and could add a whole new layer to how URU works by adding money.

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PostPosted: Sat Sep 03, 2011 3:52 am 
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Kahlo always seemed to me to be "too" ambitious. Far be it from me to doubt Cyan's technical prowess, but compared to things that they couldn't get to work in uru, such as the maintainers wall and minkata sparklie, Kahlo is quite extravagant. It also seems technically demanding. All the real time lighting and particle effects in Minkata are enough to pour on the lag but individual avatars moving around on flying mounts seems like a hefty task. In any game, this shouldn't be an obstacle, but everything else in uru seems to be far simpler.

Not to say Plasma isn't a technical wonder.

I wonder if they ever got any working concepts of Kahlo at all. That is, did they ever manage to get to any relative state of basic playablilty?


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PostPosted: Sat Sep 03, 2011 5:31 am 
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If you think Kahlo was ambitious.. Venalem was supposed to have a scuba diving element.. from the concept art it looked like nearly 75% of the Age was going to be underwater. [spoiler]http://3dconceptualdesigner.com/3DCD_Design/ look for things that say "arctic age"[/spoiler]

And there was another that was supposed to be a ruined molten sphere with individual landmasses floating freely on the surface of the magma constantly moving and crashing into one another. The heat from the molten core would have been harnessed for balloons and zepplins.[spoiler]http://3dconceptualdesigner.blogspot.com/search?q=cyan[/spoiler]

There's so many awesome ideas that they were never able to do. Even the Plasma engine was probably a stand-in for what would have been an engine evolving with regular updates and new features. Uru was and still is unbelievably ambitious.

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PostPosted: Sat Sep 03, 2011 6:00 pm 
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Those are awesome; that's some great concept art.

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PostPosted: Sat Sep 03, 2011 11:41 pm 
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Main_Avvie wrote:
Kahlo always seemed to me to be "too" ambitious. Far be it from me to doubt Cyan's technical prowess, but compared to things that they couldn't get to work in uru, such as the maintainers wall and minkata sparklie, Kahlo is quite extravagant. It also seems technically demanding. All the real time lighting and particle effects in Minkata are enough to pour on the lag but individual avatars moving around on flying mounts seems like a hefty task. In any game, this shouldn't be an obstacle, but everything else in uru seems to be far simpler.

Not to say Plasma isn't a technical wonder.

I wonder if they ever got any working concepts of Kahlo at all. That is, did they ever manage to get to any relative state of basic playablilty?

It's not just Kahlo. Every age on the DRC list was, at one point or another, seriously intended to be released. The sheer volume alone seems to me overly ambitious, and of course there are even more ambitious aspects in many of them like we see in Kahlo. Just think, all those ages that were suspended in Phase One were serious ideas that were deemed too ambitious to continue. As I understand it, the idea was they'd get more resources as the game progressed so that they could finish those ages.

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PostPosted: Sun Sep 04, 2011 1:23 am 
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Well, they're "concepts" that is, ideas. what could happens. They gotta make em wurk first lol before they can release em. To do that creators experiment with the technicality and functionality. If they can't make it work it's scrapped. afaik, all this material is concept work. visualizations and technical ideas. i can imagine that many of these more elaborate ages, had URU ran much longer than it did, would have never been seen for years until Cyan had the resources to make them run properly.

They're nice ideas. Cyan dreams big.


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