Myst Online: URU Live Forums :: View topic

rha3l

Joined: 05 Oct 2010

Posts: 98

Location: Nottingham

Everyone having KI problems tonight. The KI isn't updating where players are in the game, buddies/neighbours coming online do not appear on your lists & players who've gone offline don't disappear off your lists.

For example if my buddie Player A was in Relto when I logged in, my KI still tells me Player A's location as Relto even if we happen to be sitting chatting in Ae'gura. Then another buddie, Player B comes online & says hello. I can hear Player B but I cannot reply because as far as my KI is concerned Player B is offline. Meanwhile a third buddie, Player C has gone offline, but because Player C was online when I logged in, Player C is still showing on my buddies list.

This KI bug also effects KI mail. It sends ok, but the recipient won't receive it until they log in again.
Likewise, the hood can only be made public/private if you log out & back in again after doing so.

_________________
Lady Marion - 11136990

Last edited by rha3l on Fri Dec 16, 2011 5:53 pm; edited 2 times in total

AdamJohnso

Joined: 09 May 2006

Posts: 1253

Location: Milledgeville, GA

Sounds like it's time for another server restart. I believe that's scheduled for Friday or Monday IIRC.

Gotta love that Cyan server software Rolling Eyes

_________________

Main_Avvie

Joined: 05 Jul 2010

Posts: 1750

Location: um... how did i get here..?

hopefully it fixes the issue. some people have been reporting that it persists after server restarts.

semplerfi

Joined: 09 May 2006

Posts: 1659

Location: 312 miles from Cyan ...

As the issues pile up it is looking like it is getting closer to a good old fashion "Vault Wipe".

_________________
semplers' shards

Main_Avvie

Joined: 05 Jul 2010

Posts: 1750

Location: um... how did i get here..?

semplerfi wrote:

As the issues pile up it is looking like it is getting closer to a good old fashion "Vault Wipe".

erm... that sounds nasty, like something similar to a server lobotomy...

just what effects would a vault wipe have?

Mac_Fife

Uru Live Moderator

Joined: 10 Nov 2006

Posts: 3151

Location: Scotland

A vault wipe is pretty much a last resort... It does exactly what it sounds like - It wipes the entire vault: All avvies are gone, all hoods vanish, all progress lost. Everyone starts from the beginning, new KI numbers, etc.

_________________
Mac - MOULagain KI#00004826
In the interests of the environment, this post has been constructed entirely from recycled electrons.

Main_Avvie

Joined: 05 Jul 2010

Posts: 1750

Location: um... how did i get here..?

Mac_Fife wrote:

A vault wipe is pretty much a last resort... It does exactly what it sounds like - It wipes the entire vault: All avvies are gone, all hoods vanish, all progress lost. Everyone starts from the beginning, new KI numbers, etc.

doesn't seem like a suitable option to me...

tanshin

Joined: 05 Mar 2010

Posts: 2209

Location: CT, US

I'm curious as to whether anybody knows if there's something (and what that something is) that specifically causes this to happen.

_________________

The Public Age Project | Owner of Eastern Time Zone's Bevin

Main_Avvie

Joined: 05 Jul 2010

Posts: 1750

Location: um... how did i get here..?

tanshin wrote:

I'm curious as to whether anybody knows if there's something (and what that something is) that specifically causes this to happen.

prob not. not from Cyan anywho i'd wager. unless our resident haxxors would like to take a looksee under the hood provided they haven't taken the liberty already. Smile

Mac_Fife

Uru Live Moderator

Joined: 10 Nov 2006

Posts: 3151

Location: Scotland

I have a theory but no particular evidence to support it. During the Gametap period of MOUL, these kind of problems were pretty much absent (or at least not nearly as prevalent). There were typically server restarts each month, ostensibly to deploy updates/new content. The code we started out with for MOULa was pretty much exactly the same client and server as under Gametap, but these problems started to surface fairly quickly in MOULa.

What is different is the servers: Gametap had a set of dedicated servers configured specifically for gaming in general and MOUL in particular. In MOULa we're using "off-the-shelf" servers that are really intended for running general web based applications where timing of events isn't desperately critical and could be impacted by other users of the server datacenter.

I think the problem might be poor "database concurrency" as a result of the not-so-good responsiveness of the servers. Basically, whenever you have multiple users acting on a common database, you expect all the events to happen in a orderly manner so that each user's operations are kept separate from that of any other user. Normally this isn't too difficult to achieve, but if you've got multiple servers sharing a database it can get a bit more complicated. For example, "old" data that's been delayed somewhere, even just fractionally, coming along overwriting more recent data could really mess up some things. The odd blip may not be a big deal, but over time they can build up. If it's only affecting transient data then a server restart will probably clear it up, but if things start affecting the areas of persistent storage in the vault, then the problem won't go away so easily.

_________________
Mac - MOULagain KI#00004826
In the interests of the environment, this post has been constructed entirely from recycled electrons.

Main_Avvie

Joined: 05 Jul 2010

Posts: 1750

Location: um... how did i get here..?

sounds like a solid theory to my essentially non existent level of expertise. if that be the case, how can the issue be remedied?

of course, taken into account that "the problem would go away so easily." Confused

Last edited by Main_Avvie on Thu Sep 29, 2011 10:13 pm; edited 1 time in total

tanshin

Joined: 05 Mar 2010

Posts: 2209

Location: CT, US

They'd have to relocate their servers, ideally to something that is run in-house or in an environment that is specifically for gaming servers (ie not Amazon).

Considering how funky the KI is, there could very well be something funky in there that is contributing to the situation. Combined with the possible server element, it could get nasty.

_________________

The Public Age Project | Owner of Eastern Time Zone's Bevin

Main_Avvie

Joined: 05 Jul 2010

Posts: 1750

Location: um... how did i get here..?

tanshin wrote:

Considering how funky the KI is, there could very well be something funky in there that is contributing to the situation. Combined with the possible server element, it could get nasty.

What do you mean by "in there" ? Do you mean in the Ki's programming? Also, I thought Cyan maintained some sort of server at Cyan HQ? or perhaps i'm mistaken...

I doubt Cyan can be convinced to relocate their servers. Even if someone were to donate them we know how unwelcome to assistance Cyan can be.

How much of an impact can this issue have? the term "nasty" is being used a lot. Could this eventually cause a system meltdown? is it something that should be addressed sooner rather than later?

Since it's affecting what is essentially URU's user interface, it makes the game quite difficult to play but it doesn't exactly render it unplayable.

OHB

Joined: 10 Feb 2010

Posts: 1053

Main_Avvie wrote:

...unless our resident haxxors would like to take a looksee under the hood provided they haven't taken the liberty already.

Mac_Fife wrote:

I have a theory but no particular evidence to support it...Gametap had a set of dedicated servers configured specifically for gaming in general and MOUL in particular. In MOULa we're using "off-the-shelf" servers that are really intended for running general web based applications where timing of events isn't desperately critical and could be impacted by other users of the server datacenter.

I think that Mac's on the right track here. What's interesting is that the problem wasn't initially present in MOULa and its gotten worse over time. But, at the start, there was a huge influx of people, then the numbers slowly dropped, stayed low for a while, and they've started to pick up,

So, I'm personally not convinced that it's as simple as Mac's explanation. I think there's more going on. I like to think that the vault has /something/ to do with it. It's the one thing that's grown steadily with time as well.

While I was working on the MO:UL Stats website, I obviously spent a lot of time with the vault, exploring its nooks and crannies. Generally, I'd say it's in moderate to good health. It's responsive and all that, but it does have a decent amount of junk in there. I had considered a while back about writing a basic vault-cleanup script...but at the time I decided against it. I'm not even sure what impact it would have - other than reducing the amount of stuff that the vault is accessing whenever someone logs in or visits an age.

The grey hats often walk a fine line. The goal is always the betterment of the game. But where does one draw the line? I felt that taking unilateral clean-up action on the vault was probably going too far. I mean, I'm not perfect...what if I made a mistake?

So, all that to say - it's possible to do a clean-up, but I really wouldn't be comfortable doing it without getting the procedure and code reviewed by the other grey hats and Cyan.

Main_Avvie wrote:

How much of an impact can this issue have? the term "nasty" is being used a lot. Could this eventually cause a system meltdown? is it something that should be addressed sooner rather than later?

It's nasty because it's annoying. I don't think there's any chance of this causing a system meltdown Smile

It's just $&#*%@# annoying.

_________________

Click here to change my signature!
OHB

Main_Avvie

Joined: 05 Jul 2010

Posts: 1750

Location: um... how did i get here..?

Well, there's an eloquent way of phrasing it. Smile

So the issue isn't catastrophic anyway, by OHBs prognosis, so that's good. But it's still "$&#%!# annoying" and that much is a given. like I said, it mucks with URU's user interface and makes it provide misleading information which makes the game difficult, if not impossible, to play.

As bad as that is, if the problem escalates or persists, it would be preferable if a vault cleanup be performed to eliminate any unused avatars that are in there trashing things up. wouldn't that also free up a lot of avatar names that are already claimed on unused accounts? i'm sick of getting teased for having ridiculous numbers after my name because "Vince" has been taken since i got here and i've yet to encounter anyone by that name. Razz

if anything is ever made to happen can it start with this? Confused

... "someday" ... just a thought anyhow...

Topic

You can…