Quote:

. I'm sure nobody wants to be the person who broke everything for Cyan, but your questions honestly feel like you're pointing at a lush meadow and whispering, "Can't go that way. Might be a minefield." We can't live in fear of the unknown. We have to forge forward and make it known.

Marine Corps Wisdom

The easy way is always mined.

or was that Murphy's Law I forget.

: -p

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Quote:

When you eliminate all other possibilities, what remains, no matter how improbable, must be the solution.
Sherlock Holmes

Murphy's Law states that anything that can go wrong, will go wrong.

DLordofTime wrote:

Murphy's Law states that anything that can go wrong, will go wrong.

... And Murphy was an optimist...

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"What are we going to do today, Borg?"
"Same thing we always do, Pinkutus:
Try to assimilate the world!"
-Pinkutus & the Borg

Ad astra
Aut viam inveniam aut faciam

Murphy's Law ("If anything can go wrong, it will") was born at Edwards Air Force Base in 1949 at North Base.

It was named after Capt. Edward A. Murphy

http://www.murphys-laws.com/murphy/murphy-true.html

Back on track...back on track...back on track

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Moul(A) Charura KI#00055400 Char Gearz KI#00706359 Cannon Belle KI#13686512 Teri Dactyl KI#12658065
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How Many Times Does A Myst Player Play Myst Before A Myst Player Decides To Play Myst Again

Mac_Fife wrote:

say, someone coming up with a fully working port to Bullet physics.

Sorry I missed something, I think..or I just didn't understand that reference.. right?

referencing here? http://jbullet.advel.cz/

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Moul(A) Charura KI#00055400 Char Gearz KI#00706359 Cannon Belle KI#13686512 Teri Dactyl KI#12658065
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How Many Times Does A Myst Player Play Myst Before A Myst Player Decides To Play Myst Again

Charura wrote:

Mac_Fife wrote:

say, someone coming up with a fully working port to Bullet physics.

Sorry I missed something, I think..or I just didn't understand that reference.. right?

referencing here? http://jbullet.advel.cz/

He means changing MOULa from PhysX which only works for Windows(and maybe mac, not entirely sure) to Bullet Physics.

PhysX and Bullet are two different Physics engines. The physics engine impact the way jumping, kickables(firemarbles) , collisions etc work. The change from one to the order is large and a lot of work, and Cyan probably would have to change their build system.

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It's a video game...

Marten wrote:

JWPlatt wrote:

I don't think Branan's comment about "Cyan's arms-length open source approach " and Marten's wanting "OU to become the master repository" are consistent.

Wut? Please look at these two statements.

Paradox wrote:

The OpenUru repository should be the master repository, and Cyan should be seen as a fork just as much as any other developer.

Marten wrote:

I, like Paradox, would like to see OU to become the master repository.

What isn't consistent here?

Well, for starters, your quoting of Paradox when I was referring to Branan.

Branan's "arms length" appears to mean Cyan's taking compatible updates from OpenUru.org instead of directly from h'uru (or others). Well yeah, relieving Cyan of the burden, and the community of the costs (CAVCON), are major aspects of making Open Uru possible. Judging by the work involved for our part, Cyan wouldn't have the time. Contrast that with your wish which does align with Paradox's. Reading the terms in Branan's posts again, I'm still not clear if I'm understanding it correctly anyway which is why I added "I'll need to think on this more," which you removed from the context of a larger post where I addressed many things as quickly as I could in limited time. Also, as I mentioned, I was referring to Branan's term, and you quoted Paradox. Wut?

Marten wrote:

Mac_Fife wrote:

I don't know that Cyan are prepared to release details of their build engine

JWPlatt wrote:

About Cyan's build environment: Consider what it means if MQO, or some other Cyan product, and MOULa are released through the same build engine process. How do you think an upgrade to the build environment affects things? Who absorbs the costs? What does it mean to the continued maintenance of all? What is Cyan's responsibility when considering fan requests that could affect the commercial products of other clients? I don't know all the answers to that. Do you?

Cyan just has to tell us if fan-originated changes are going to create a problem for them, and explain what we need to do to stay compatible if that is a concern. If Cyan can't do that, I don't see why open source devs should be forced to treat the build system like a booby trap, terrified that the slightest change will bring destruction. I'm sure nobody wants to be the person who broke everything for Cyan, but your questions honestly feel like you're pointing at a lush meadow and whispering, "Can't go that way. Might be a minefield." We can't live in fear of the unknown. We have to forge forward and make it known.

About the build system, I am not saying what can or can't be done. At the time, there seemed to be a clinging misperception that OU supports only the VS2003 environment when in fact we can automate any build environment, including h'uru's. I was suggesting that folks try to understand that what they think is easy for Cyan might not be so easy if they stop to consider and understand the consequences. We'll do our best to relate the challenges from what we understand of it, but clearly MOULa is not Cyan's only concern in terms of their build system.

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OpenUru.org: An Uru Project Resource Site : Twitter : Perfect Speed Is Being There.

JWPlatt wrote:

Marten wrote:

JWPlatt wrote:

I don't think Branan's comment about "Cyan's arms-length open source approach " and Marten's wanting "OU to become the master repository" are consistent.

Wut? Please look at these two statements.

Paradox wrote:

The OpenUru repository should be the master repository, and Cyan should be seen as a fork just as much as any other developer.

Marten wrote:

I, like Paradox, would like to see OU to become the master repository.

What isn't consistent here?

Well, for starters, your quoting of Paradox when I was referring to Branan.

Branan's "arms length" appears to mean Cyan's taking compatible updates from OpenUru.org instead of directly from h'uru (or others). Well yeah, relieving Cyan of the burden, and the community of the costs (CAVCON), are major aspects of making Open Uru possible. Judging by the work involved for our part, Cyan wouldn't have the time. Contrast that with your wish which does align with Paradox's. Reading the terms in Branan's posts again, I'm still not clear if I'm understanding it correctly anyway which is why I added "I'll need to think on this more," which you removed from the context of a larger post where I addressed many things as quickly as I could in limited time. Also, as I mentioned, I was referring to Branan's term, and you quoted Paradox. Wut?

My understanding of branan's "arms length" comment is that Cyan doesn't seem to be involved in open-source much at all, not just on the subject of merging. Cyan hasn't made any attempt to communicate what they expect from open-source (at least not publicly), and half of what we know is coming from private conversations with individual community members.

That's not really unexpected after our experiences with Cyan, but it continues to be somewhat frustrating.

We need to have some imagination other than what Cyan will let us put in. Thus, I propose a "Fanon" server, a way for fans to expand the boundaries of what we already have storywise, but not canon to the games. (i.e. Myst's underground Living Quarters, Beyond the rock spires of Eder Gira, or even the outside of the Pod Age.) However, we could get into arguments about what goes where or what could actually exist, so maybe we can put it to a vote, see if a selected group of fans like it, and then submit it to Cyan for judgement.

Am I making any sense here, or need I say more?

EDIT: Wait a minute, I misread the "minefield" comment. (I was thinking that it was saying: "No, we can't put that lush field in there, cause it's a minefield in the real game.") However, I still want to put my idea of a "fanon" server in.

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...then it crapped the bed and stackdumped.

The Time-Traveling Stranger.

Paradox wrote:

My understanding of branan's "arms length" comment is that Cyan doesn't seem to be involved in open-source much at all, not just on the subject of merging. Cyan hasn't made any attempt to communicate what they expect from open-source (at least not publicly), and half of what we know is coming from private conversations with individual community members.

That's not really unexpected after our experiences with Cyan, but it continues to be somewhat frustrating.

Quite correct

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MOULagain KI #: 66990

When I was your age, we rocket-jumped up hill both ways in boiling lava.

OpenUru.org will continue to do its best to inform the community about its work and be the "master repository" you expect. I hope we have responded well to these kinds of requests, most recently by being present more in IRC, AGM events, appointing a GoMe Liaison (Leonardo), more informational updates, the opening of a test shard, and making simple support available. (We still could use more volunteers for the support site! Anyone is welcome.)

T-Squared wrote:

...I propose a "Fanon" server, a way for fans to expand the boundaries of what we already have storywise, but not canon to the games.

It's already possible and happening with open source. No need to vote because people with different visions can open different shards and run it their way. As for what makes it to Cyan and onto MOULa, I'm sure the best work will be noticed, especially if the community supports it.

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OpenUru.org: An Uru Project Resource Site : Twitter : Perfect Speed Is Being There.

JWPlatt wrote:

...people with different visions can open different shards and run it their way.

Since I know of several attempts at doing just this over the past year, none of which are successful as of yet: as the Minkata server gets tweaked / perfected, will those code changes be incorporated into a streamlined approach to setting up a MOSS server?

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Mac - MOULagain KI#00004826
In the interests of the environment, this post has been constructed entirely from recycled electrons.

lunanne wrote:

He means changing MOULa from PhysX which only works for Windows(and maybe mac, not entirely sure) to Bullet Physics.

PhysX and Bullet are two different Physics engines. The physics engine impact the way jumping, kickables(firemarbles) , collisions etc work. The change from one to the order is large and a lot of work, and Cyan probably would have to change their build system.

Thank you

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How Many Times Does A Myst Player Play Myst Before A Myst Player Decides To Play Myst Again

JWPlatt wrote:

No need to vote because people with different visions can open different shards and run it their way. .

This is kind of misleading--(nearly a year later) we still can't redistribute modified PRPs of Cyan ages. So, sadly, this means we can't add that awesome "Bahro Hunter Extreme" arcade game to the BaronCityOffice yet. I was looking forward to implementing the gameplay for that

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