DLordofTime wrote:

A good way to settle this would be to release the original Bevin and the original Seret. Then you can't call them all Bevin.

Excellent. But it's also enough to make the point that they exist and could be released, therefor the possibility for Bevin must be accounted for as it's own distinct neighborhood - "neighborhood" being the generic term.

There can be only ONE.

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I'm a proud owner of 6 private hoods. Some are Bevin-like neighborhoods, some are Seret-like neighborhoods.

Bevin is ONE specific neighborhood not a generic neighborhood. There's a big difference! Saying: "I'm linking to MY bevin" would be as odd as me telling you: "I'm living in a Canada". Canada is ONE country. Canada is a country but not all countries are Canada. Bevin is a neighborhood but not all neighborhood are bevin.

I voted like the majority: sticking to Hood.

And the gangsta issue, I don't see it...I don't have crack house in those age . I do have cracked the house...but that's another topic

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Annabelle wrote:

I do have cracked the house...but that's another topic

Oh boy! Are you accepting membership applications?

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TOC#60089 DI#132103 MOULa is

The "only one Bevin" argument alone doesn't work as far as instancing goes with Uru because Uru already makes instances of other single places.

There is only one Ae'gura, but we have tons of clones of that, clones of Great Zero, clones of Tiwah, clones of K'veer. Now those places really have a lot of history... Well, maybe some people here are also opposed to those instancings.

There certainly has always been a bit of disconnect of what makes sense for the game and what makes sense as the story.

I guess the truth is we've only been to two Neighborhoods, Bevin and Kirel. Because going to those different Ae'gura instances doesn't count as being different D'ni cities, neither would different Bevin instances count as different D'ni neighborhoods. Sharper's journal mentions the Great Tree Bevin when storywise it should probably just say Bevin. I think Cyan may have confused themselves with this one a bit.

That's Uru Online for you.

(Since we have our own Clefts do we by extension also have our own New Mexico? Our own USA? Our own Earth? Clearly each explorer is from their own separate dimension! That explains all the disagreeing!)

In that list of instanced ages, Kirel - the example more appropriate than any other - does not appear because it is not instanced.

We have not been to Bevin in Myst Online. Bevin appears only in the offline game.

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Ehren wrote:

I guess the truth is we've only been to two Neighborhoods, Bevin and Kirel. Because going to those different Ae'gura instances doesn't count as being different D'ni cities, neither would different Bevin instances count as different D'ni neighborhoods. Sharper's journal mentions the Great Tree Bevin when storywise it should probably just say Bevin. I think Cyan may have confused themselves with this one a bit.

This is where instancing gets complicated, and why instancing should never have been a part of the canon. For every other age, you are correct. For neighborhoods, they are supposed to be different 'hoods in the cavern, and the instancing is purely a limitation of the engine (much like we wouldn't say that the rocks in D'ni have strange patterns in them because of texture stretching or whatever).

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When I was your age, we rocket-jumped up hill both ways in boiling lava.

Let's just put it down to Yeesha Magic. Something nobody understands properly.

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I'm kind of with Ehren, honestly. It always made much more sense to me to treat all of the different 'Hoods as different instances of the original Bevin, than to suppose that the D'ni decided to build several thousand completely-identical neighborhood complexes, like some underground version of Levittown. That becomes especially true when you realize that the view of the Lake is exactly the same from every Hood.

(And I mean "makes sense" in the general sense, since instancing as a whole doesn't make much logical sense to begin with, but that's another can of worms...)

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Top Gun wrote:

... the view of the Lake is exactly the same from every Hood...

Not to mention the KI coordinates are exactly the same for each neighborhood.

@ Ehren: Don't be on another planet than me I like when you are around. I don't think we totally disagree. I know there's a lot of instances of Ages.

And beside...I'm thinking of that: is there someone who have seen the original Bevin once in their life? I never seen it. Even the "gangsta"land of HenryMikel was DRC Bevin (1). (I know he will hate me for that )

And yes...D'ni-Riltagamin is kind of odd. It always puzzled me. I think we would have to go back to an OOC/IC discussion with that age. And you all know i'm an IC to the bone (kidding here).

@ Trekluver: sorry dear...I didn't only cracked the houses, I filled them up too . My biggest hood is over 70 members (with many many many ghosts avatars, kind of an eerie place ).

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Really, the biggest problem is that we had instancing in the first place. Regardless of the start of it, and the simple fact that it was far far easier than the alternative of modelling everything and then going the usual MMO route of NO private areas, they went the alternative of having instancing as an IC construct.

And then said "You know these neighborhoods? Totally not instanced. Even though all evidence suggests they are". Evidence for them being independent entities all together: DRC said so. Evidence for them being instances of the same hood: Every single thing observable.
And that's because to the engine they ARE instanced. As I said, it's far easier to just assume they're instanced. However what is Uru if not a desparate clinging to old traditions and Cyan-authored tidbits? A glorified chat room, that's what!

What really gets me though is it probably couldn't be THAT hard to make an age that could actually FAKE the whole "they're all different neighborhoods". I said it before here, though can't recall the thread. Have a mass of stalactites above, all together, and a whole mass of different ae'gura locations. Then have the randomizer code for creating a hood (the same one that determines lamp style, if you get banners, clocks, etc etc) pick a few ceiling fixtures, and one of the locations. Then just have the KI coordinates map to a 0-0-0 of the HOOD. Not the "cavern". Say it's something akin to why you don't get ki coords in Rudena, or the silo. Something about the location, or the KI "recenters" when it finds a close mark or is in a predesignated "location region".
Heck, if we had the rights to edit Cyan ages, I bet it could be cobbled up without too much fuss, the hardest part probably being making sure the code doesn't trip over itself and show all vault variables at once.

Instead they went "There's no instances. Despite all that evidence to the contrary. No, really. It's all different places even though everything suggests the EXACT same place. La la la la we can't hear you la la la!" and then everyone went along with it, to the point that it was almost a religion that they weren't instances, and any attempts at arguing against it no matter how much proof were met with "That's blasphemy against Canon!"

(Bitter, me? Naaaaaah)


Oh, and the whole "gangsters" bit I used is an old old joke probably only a handful get. And yes, I have actually thought about doing a repeat of SWN25/50 using actual DRC avatars etc, but Vortmax was right. It'd lose some of the charm.

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You know, I wish we would learn Atrus loved the 1812 overture, and in turn we had a copy for our relto.
That's right, a canon canen cannon!

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Welcome back all!

I blame the Bahro.

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I blame Yeesha

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All right kids, it's time for another episode of "In Canon", with Ahlisendar! Do you want to.. grab a glass of milk or something? No? That's okay.

So obviously we're all very concerned about whether the hoods are instanced or not, and how instancing works in the first place. Well, we all know that linking books are actually bridges to alternate realities. But what we also know is that every decision we make, every time we roll the dice if you will, we create another branch of our own reality, but it all seems to be one, constant reality to us.
So, if we follow these basic rules, then we can only derive that each instance of an age is actually a different branch of the same tree that is that age. But that means that there must have been a change to create another instance, mustn't there? Well, yes. But who's to say it was a fundamental change, like the size of the cavern or something? It could just be that the only change in it is that Yeesha's book took us there, instead of the public instance. "But books can't do that", you might say. Well, by normal D'ni laws, no, but we know that Yeesha is capable of far more than the D'ni.
But then, how do these changes keep being applied to ages, like whether or not the Bahro stone is there, or the pumpkins in the neighbourhood? Well, the only possibility is that whenever a change like that is made in the "main" bevin (the one that we saw in Complete Chronicles), the whole tree of bevins is "rebranched". But what about the pylons and firemarbles?
Hmm. Uh, ignore that.
Anyway, this brings me to the infamous hood mystery. You see, we always knew that Yeesha wanted the restoration to go in a different direction, so instancing the hoods may be one of the changes she made. However, it's quite possible that the DRC aren't really aware of this. But due the the obvious changes like the clock and relto pages, it's easy to think you're just in a different location in the cavern. Because it's not hard to imagine that the bevin is a basic model for several neighbourhoods. I mean, Ri'neref could easily have written the age so that it has many similar inlets for neighbourhoods to go in.
But why does Cyan still say the neighbourhoods aren't instanced?
They're just some game company, what do they know?

See, this is what happens when people start to question the Myst canon.

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Why can't "instancing" be an strictly OOC thing!

I blame Cyan, it's there game!