Maratanos wrote:

How do you know the bahro don't have humanoid anatomy?

Are you suggesting that a creature looks nothing like a human, in posture, size, shape, and configuration, should somehow beyond all logic have skeletons that look perfectly human?

We have seen the Bahro clearly enough to notice they possess reverse jointed legs, a highly elongated torso, which is usually hunched to move in quadrapedal fashion, claws, and large wedge shaped heads with extremely wide set eyes. There is no concievable way they could have humanoid skeletal structure under that.

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Alec Winters KI 06399622

"History is irredeemable."
- Kain, Scion of Balance

We only see PIECES of their bpme structure, though. We see ribs, we see single bones, but we DON'T see enough of a skeleton for it to be clear-cut.

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For cowards die a thousand deaths, while heros die but one.

Well, unless they're playing video games, in which case heros die a lot too.

How do we know those aren't animal bones, left over from some feeding?

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*SLMW 1.0* No animals were harmed in the production of this message.

There are definatly human bones in the slave holding chamber on Teledahn.

Here, we see an unmistakable human skull in the holding chamber: http://i11.photobucket.com/albums/a198/callidus37/junk/TeledahnSkull.jpg

For reference, a detailed picture of a Bahro's head, borrowed from ireenquench's post in the Eshers bahro pelt thread: http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v233/ireenquench/Myst5/bahro_rad-spiral01.jpg

There is no way that a Bahro's skull could be mistaken for a human one.

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Alec Winters KI 06399622

"History is irredeemable."
- Kain, Scion of Balance

Well, they could be the skulls of the guys who were guarding the slaves.

www2 wrote:

Well, they could be the skulls of the guys who were guarding the slaves.

Hmmm...maybe they were the bones of the D'ni the Bahro ate after Yeesha freed them? Maybe the fact that his own gnarled bones would soon be joining them were what Escher feared the most. If that's so, the nonchalant attitude Yeesha displayes when dealing with Escher in the last cut-scene speaks volumes. Perhaps she knows the bahro are meat eating beasts she is relaeasing upon the unsuspecting DRC and explorers, but doesn't really care now that she has been released from her burden...

Maybe the bahro should have been kept... contained (OK, I wont use that non-PC word 'Slaves')? My vision involves seeing a Bahro suck that last juicy bit of Eschers' brain from out his eye-socket, then turn, still hungry, toward me...

other than the skull which is necesarily inhuman the bahro could easily have a similar skeletal structure to ours. If it were articulated (all bones put together in proper fashion) it would be easy to see it wasn't human but there have been cases where bear bones (minus the skull and paws) have been mistaken for human skeletons by people and most land based mammals have a fairly generalized skeleton. with the fragmentary nature of the remains in the cage it could be just about anything. and the 'human' skulls in there could be the gaurds or could be prisoners of another type or even possibley animals. Who says just the bahro were chained. Many cultures use criminals as slaves so there could have been a slave from several different societies mixed in. We need a trained DRC osteologist to go in and give a verdicted.

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Shorah.

Just a tought,

Due to toxic wastes or radiations, what if Bahros were humans from the futur or mayby other humans types from a Quantum parallel universe.

Artic_Wagon wrote:

Just a tought,

Due to toxic wastes or radiations, what if Bahros were humans from the futur or mayby other humans types from a Quantum parallel universe.

I don't think that's necessary, really.

Overall, our guiding principle, in books, Books, and the games, is that pretty much all things are possible -- our Tree metaphor. So it seems perfectly reasonable that most of the worlds to which the D'ni would write Books and link would be worlds that could support them, physically... which means that if there are "people" there, and I use the term as broadly as possible, they'd have a lot in common with humans. No methane-filled atmospheres ir ridiculously high gravity, for example.

So the Bahro can be "humanoid" without ever having been, at any point in time, human or D'ni. They may have a wildly different skeletal structure but for all intents and purposes they still appear to be oxygen-breathing mammals, and that's a start. *grin*

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KI #: 00068078
One Explorer's Journey...

Aside from having the same number of limbs, the Bahro have very little in common with humans with regard to their body structure.

http://www.planetkodiak.com/myst/images/myst5eoa/myst5pic082.jpg

This would be hard to mistake for human. All of the limb bones would be vastly oversized, the ribs and spine faaaaaaar too long, and the legs would appear freakishly wrong.

Also, as I recall, Myst 5 showed them to have folding wings of some kind. That would certainly be unique among the bones littering the chamber.

If however, we were to assume for some reason that the Bahro had a similar skeletal structure to humans, there is a noticable lack of bones that would be unique to the Bahro, where as there are undeniably human remains in the chamber.

To argue that the Bahro were held there because some of the humanoid remains might be Bahro remains, is the same as trying to argue that because Loch Ness is connected the ocean, and permits marine life to travel back and forth, then Nessie must exist.

If we were supposed to think the Bahro were held in that chamber, a Bahro skull would have been left instead. The fact that we instead see a human skull indicates that we were supposed to consider the room as evidence of human slavery not Bahro.

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Alec Winters KI 06399622

"History is irredeemable."
- Kain, Scion of Balance

Quote:

Aside from having the same number of limbs, the Bahro have very little in common with humans with regard to their body structure.

For those who beleive it is so, get yourself ready for a little surprise and ask yourself if there is a connection between sea urchins and humans.
http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2006/11/061109-sea-urchins.html

Rieuco wrote:

The fact that we instead see a human skull indicates that we were supposed to consider the room as evidence of human slavery not Bahro.

Except that the bones are not the only evidence we have about what went on in Teledahn. The bahroglyph evidence seems to show the presence of Bahro in cages and collecting spores.

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I cannot truly show any of what you all would call evidence as to the Bahro being held in Teledahn.... besides....all major authorites say so+ (the incorrectly disputed knowledge of the bahro glyphs etc. I won't even bring those up)

Yeesha says so or at least alludes to it if you want to be too picky.

It is common knowledge that the DRC and most others believe that the slave pens held bahro. As to the bones....(out of game aspect here) maybe it's a GAME....and they actually didn't do the bones right because they were PROPS...(or in game aspect) maybe they were slavers that died....or the DRC took the real bones out to preserve them
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"After some amount of time, a man named Manesmo bought the Age, and kept it in good shape, though he apparently started dealing in slaves, a nasty underbelly to the D'ni civilization. "

It does not say that the slaves were bahro...however it is commonly accepted as such....so that's all I'm saying on that subject.

of course we'll get someone saying "just because it's widley accepted doensn't mean it's true"...and America never went to the moon...
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In addition to the story choice idea...that's right.

We will have to choose between (as in a third path) Escher and Yeesha...or take both those Ideas and MAKE a third path.

There's my two cents.

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BrettM wrote:

Rieuco wrote:

The fact that we instead see a human skull indicates that we were supposed to consider the room as evidence of human slavery not Bahro.

Except that the bones are not the only evidence we have about what went on in Teledahn. The bahroglyph evidence seems to show the presence of Bahro in cages and collecting spores.

But the Bahro can link at will, would cages really hold them? ...Well, I suppose if Esher was there with his snakes... Anyhow... IMO, I always thought that Yeesha, when talking about The Least, blurred the line between the D'ni using Bahro as slaves and the D'ni using Humans as slaves.

"The Least" is a name referring soley to the bahro...there was a slave class above them even (read the class structure on the Dokatah roof).

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