After reading through the entire History and Myths forum, I was thinking we ought to all get together and pool our knowledge about the Bahro, as there seems to be no centralized location to talk about them elsewhere.

WARNING: THERE ARE SPOILERS AHEAD

So far what I've gathered is this:

-The word "Bahro" translates directly to beast people. It was used in Terahnee to refer to Ahrotahntee, or book-worlders.

-For the D'ni, Bahro refers to the race of creatures seen in the ending of ABM, as well as in EoA.

-Yeesha refers to 'the least' often in her speaches and journals, and it is generally believed that this is referring to these creatures.

-The Bahro can link at will, to any location, even within the same age.

-The Bahro were enslaved by the D'ni for roughly 10,000 years until freed at the end of EoA.

-The Bahro communicate with drawings, and have left many of these drawings throughout the various ages of Myst and Uru.

-The Bahro seem to have a great deal of control over the physical universe, as it was shown that they could speed up the passage of time, summon wind and rain, or heat an age for a time.

-The Bahro have a language, and Escher had learned to speak it at some point. Yeesha also seemed very adept at communicating with the Bahro.

-The Bahro are afraid of snakes, and are unable to link into any location containing snakes, or shaped like a snake.

Most of the above statements are generally agreed upon, according to what I've read throughout the forums. The following points are still somewhat speculative and the subject of debate.

-The Bahro may have been kept in the slave pens on Teledahn (there is speculation as to whether or not these were Bahro slaves, or other Ahrotahntee slaves.)

-The four Bahro totems that needed to be moved form the blue cave to the orange cave throughout the course of ABM are Bahro artifacts, and their transport to the orange cave is speculated to be linked to their presence in the D'ni cavern.

-There seems to be a link between the star fissure, the Cleft, and the Bahro, but it is unclear what the link may be. This link is shown through the Pillars presence being tied to the star fissure, as once all the Pillars are present on Rhelto, the fissure is outlined, and their removal opens the fissure.

-The Bahro were said to have been enslaved by the D'ni for 10,000 years, which roughly coincides with the time the D'ni first came to the Cavern. This has led many to believe that the Bahro were the original inhabitants of the Cavern. This raises the question of why a race with the power to link to anywhere in the universe at will would choose to reside in the D'ni cavern. This may imply a significance for the cavern itself in terms of linking in general, or it may be as simple as the Bahro are natively from the cavern.

So far this is about all I have been able to find out about the Bahro, but I welcome and encourage the knowledge of others to add to the general understanding of the Bahro. Also, if you find any of my information is incorrect, please let me know so I can change this post to ensure that no false information is spread. Any insight that can be added to the topic is welcome, and hopefully many questions will be answered once Live is finally up and running.

^_^

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New Ki Numbers:
Time: # 46623
kiyoshigawa: # 52442

kiyoshigawa wrote:

-The Bahro were enslaved by the D'ni for roughly 10,000 years until freed at the end of EoA.

Make that: "Slavery has been going on in the D'ni society for some 10,000 years, according to Yeesha."

We don't know if those 10,000 years refer to the Bahro, nor do we know if they're not massive hyperbole on Yeesha's part.

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Sören Nils 'chucker' Kuklau; KI number: 196082
MYSTcommunity & MYSTlore
I write soeren says. You don't.

Another thing: I'm not entirely certain but I think I remember Esher saying something about the reason the bahro were afraid of the snakes on Noloben. Something about how the snake's poison binds them and prevents them from linking.

If I'm making this up and my memory's faulty, someone let me know.

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Six called abused
Five sent away
Four sell to three
Three excepted without eighteen
Two one of eight
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-The Watcher

They are afraid ofthe snakes on Noloben because Esher used the snake's poison to learn more about them. the snake's venom prevents them from linking, but they can still link to an area by snakes.

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-Whilyam

My examinations of the issue have shown that the slaves held on Teledahn were almost certainly not Bahro.

Of course, now I've heard lots of clever explainations for how there could have been Bahro there with all evidence to the contrary.

Still I think this myth is fairly well debunked. All it needs is Adam Savage and Jamie Hyneman to sign off on it.

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Alec Winters KI 06399622

"History is irredeemable."
- Kain, Scion of Balance

Quote:

-The Bahro can link at will, to any location, even within the same age.

I suspect that when the Bahro "link to a location even within the same Age" that they're really linking out to some unspecified Age and immediately back in to the Age they were at, at some different location, since the act of linking requires some sort of dimensional transfer.

But they can link at will.

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18

But that's really semantics, isn't it? For all practical purposes, they can link within an Age.

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Fi copil din nou, joaca jocuri logice si alte puzzle-uri noi in fiecare zi mii de jocuri gratis pe cujocuri un site facut de jucatori pentru jucator.

lego_addict wrote:

But that's really semantics, isn't it? For all practical purposes, they can link within an Age.

Okay, okay.

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18

Just a warning to everybody, what I say here is tantamount to heresy on these boards .

SPOILERS below. Also it’s long…you were warned!










What do we know about the Bahro? Almost nothing! They can link (innate ability or gained through study?). They have a fear of snakes (rational in my opinion), are intelligent and were enslaved (somehow) by the D’ni until someone (the Stranger, you?) set them free at Yeesha’s urging.

While I loved the Myst setting, this element never sat well with me. We asked to follow the advice of a (by her own admission) failed messiah to “free” the least. In Uru (and all it’s sequels), we are shown a very one-sided story about the evils of D’ni society. Was I alone in feeling a measure of trepidation every time I took a Bahro pole from the chamber? It felt very much like returning the pages to the “prison” books in Myst. I fully expected the Bahro to appear and then a fade to black while I listened to wet, tearing noises as the Bahro slaughtered me because I had the temerity to steal, albeit for a short time, their sacred totems.

Moving to Myst 5, we discover a bit more about the Bahro. The fact that they are intelligent and can link disturbs me the most story-wise. If the were so intelligent, wise and powerful, how did they let themselves be enslaved in the first place? Going on the assumption that they were very naive when they first encountered the D’ni, they were never able to free themselves? Was there not one person in all of the D’ni ages were willing to take the time to listen to their plight and speak on their behalf? If there is some reason that they were unable to make a connection, they had to wait roughly 200 years before they could find someone with the courage to free them? When they do find someone, someone they trusted enough to, presumably, train in their ways, and she fails them? I’m sorry but this all seems too far-fetched to me.

Moving on to Yeesha, what do we really know about her? She is the daughter of parents with perfectly complementary Writing styles, Atrus with his logical and methodical approach and Katrin with a more creative outlook. It should have been a great learning experience. Except…her older brothers turned into complete nutcases. This doesn’t reflect well on Atrus and Katrin’s parenting skills. So, extending what we know of Atrus’ bloodline, we can expect her to be afflicted with some instabilities. Proof of this is found by following the linage from Aitrus. Aitrus was supportive and rational. His son, Gehn, was unbalanced. Gehn’s son, Atrus, was caring and reasonable. Sirrus and Achenar, delusional. Achenar did redeem himself eventually but the damage had already been done.

It can be argued that the presence of capable and formidable women may have countered any instabilities that Aitrus and Atrus may have developed. Gehn and the boys had no one to provide such tempering while Yeesha had someone (name escapes me at the moment)( edit: Calam, I just found it ). However, I would expect his death to exacerbate any flaws she may have had. Hence the adoption of the ‘Grower” mentality., symbolically restoring her loved one to life by giving “life’ (freedom) to others.

In the end it comes down to a matter of trust. The only two people in this whole tale I trust are Atrus, because when he owns up to his errors, and myself.

I would like to thank all those that made it this far into this exposition for taking the time to read it all and would like to hear your opinions, whether they match my observations or not.

There are many things I agree with, JonSmalls. If the Bahro have the ability to link at will, how did they get enslaved. I always wondered about this. Obviously it's not a literal enslavement of chains. In fact, somewhere Yeesha says that even after D'ni fell, the Bahro watched at waited to serve again.

However, I've also found that often times speculating at such problems doesn't help this early in the game. I'm sure Cyan has a lot of story left to reveal and we may find a perfectly logical explanation for their enslavement.

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18

A thoughtful appraisal, JonSmalls, but we may wonder if you are being a bit too acerbic? Well, not for me. In fact i feel you have been too forgiving of Atrus (grandson of Aitrus, is that right?).

From the end of Myst (One) i have felt illused by Atrus. Sure, he was full of that "how are you, my friend" stuff when he needed you at the beginning of each adventure. But did he not seem just a bit too quick to accept the respite you offered and be off, leaving you to your own fate, down a fissure or whatever?

Perhaps, his experience with his even more self-centered father, Gehn, was that bad a role experience. For instance, admittedly in only a very small example, there is the issue of his rebuke at the beginning of Revelation, in his lab with you trying to line up the phase thing with the whatever on the oscilloscope -- he said something like, Come now! It can't be that difficult! [you dolt]. To me he seemed petulant; but if not that, it certainly was unnecessary. Mostly it furthered the sense of his lack of concern (not to mention a lack of empathy) for those around him.

I suppose this may be passed off as the normal self-centeredness of the scientific genius. Nevertheless, it fails to endear him to me.

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pappou (avatar)

Gah! Why do people insist that such mental traits are genetic? And then make up genetics rules so that every other generation gets a trait? People make their own decisions; your birth is not your story of life. Exogenous influences like parenting help forge your mind, as do certain aspects of your physiology, but there is no trait in DNA that says "funny person" or "party pooper." Certain mental imbalances can be genetic-based, but not those exhibited by any in Atrus' family.

Sirrus, Achenar, and Gehn are so, well, evil, because of the poor parenting and lack of exogenous influences like close friends, stable communities, and a secure upbringing (the last, at least, affecting Gehn). All of them were, as all D'ni of Linking wealth, as kings amongst the other Ages, freely able to greet and bid goodbye and affect without being affected. However, whereas others would be taught that this selfishness was wrong, Gehn had an unstable family and was living in really unstable times, and the brothers were allowed to roam free through the Ages without being taught the inherent beauty of an Age without disruption.

Still, in addition to these faults of families, they made their own choices. They decided that they were worthy of worship, and demanded all the wrongs that they perpetrated.

As Atrus and Katran were betrayed by them, they realized that they had wronged their children by their haphazard parenting. So, with their baby Yeesha, they set out to right their wrongs, at least in spirit. They gave her formal and moral education, teaching her of the New D'ni ethics and of the art of Writing. She appreciated it; she got it.

While we don't know what horrors she felt in the Cavern, it is obvious that she transcended sanity as we know it. Yeesha's devotion to the Bahro is as her devotion to not only merely being the opposite of her evil brethren, but righting the sorts of wrongs their kind perpetrated. The Least were trapped and maimed as the Moiety and the people of Channelwood, and she knew that she had the opportunity to, at least in spirit, reverse her brothers' and grandfather's actions.

Yeesha is no madwoman by heritage. She is enlightened by justice.

Marentan tso Yeesha

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Marentan tso Yeesha - Follower of Yeesha
May Yeesha's hand guide your Journey

JonSmalls, I'm pleased to meet someone else who felt that same foreboding. I felt the same sense that I had done something profoundly important, and inconcievably wrong, as I watched the Bahro decending back into the cavern.

I know that when I first encountered Yeesha, I trusted her fully, after all, she was Atrus's daughter (Sirrus and Achenar didn't spring to mind at that moment for some reason.) and she seemed to have a noble goal.

I felt it was kind of distasteful the way she seemed to judge all of D'ni by the actions of it's worst citizens, but understandable.

And then as time passed, I began to wonder more and more about her sanity. In Path of the Shell, I realized she a more than a few cards short of a deck, and Myst V answered my questions about her sanity with a terrifying brutality. After her third or so message left on the imagers in the Great Shaft, I realized that beyond a shadow of any doubt, that she had completely lost her mind.

That was a sobering thought.

My mind flashed back to all the things Yeesha had said and done. Her ranting about the Grower, and about setting things right, and I realized, she lost her mind quite a while ago. She might in fact be The Grower, but she's still crazy, and that kind of power in the hands of a madwoman is not the most pleasing thought to me.

I'm not ashamed to admit that I gave the Tablet to Esher. (Yes I tried again, and eventually figured out how to get the good ending.)

All of this brings me to where I am today. Knowing Yeesha's mental state, I cannot take her word for gospel. The Grower she might be, but she's also quite falible, and delusional. I have to analyze everything she puts forward, knowing that her interpretation of it is probably not the whole truth.

I've seen enough that I am convinced Yeesha's story of the Bahro is not the truth. I'm not saying she lied, but that between misintreptations, and her own madness it became a different story.

Consider this:

The Tablet - It's design doesn't look D'ni. It's too "primative" too "magical," aside from their books the D'ni were very scientific. If Yeesha is right about how long it has enslaved the Bahro... then it's older than D'ni.

Esher - Feared the Bahro, and constructed a sanctuary to hide from them, before he began to experiment on them. "This was their home, and they did not welcome me." He said. Read between the lines... The Bahro were hostile, he feared them until he had a sanctuary. A man like Esher would have been spoken condescendingly of creatures he felt were below him.

The intelligence - The Bahro are obviously intelligent, very intelligent, but they don't try to communicate, even with those who are friendly to them. They lurk, and hide in the shadows, occassionally aiding those who aid them if forced to it, leaving one with suspicions as to their loyalties.

I cannot help but suspect that Yeesha, in her zeal to fix the world has been misled, and in turn has misled us. And the implications of what we have unleashed in the Bahro are disturbing to me.

If Myst has taught me anything, it's that things are not always what they seem, and if you're not careful, it's far too easy to let everything fall inot the wrong hands.

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Alec Winters KI 06399622

"History is irredeemable."
- Kain, Scion of Balance

Let us do the who what and where. Helps to clarify things.

So here is a slew of questions (with my speculation of each following later)

Questions

1.) What Age did the Bahro come from?
2.) How old is Noloben (in terms of when it was first linked to)?
3.) What was the earliest contact between the Bahro and D'ni
4.) Does this contact extend back to Garternay?
5.) Is there any relationship or contact between Bahro and Terahnee?
6.) Why and how did the D'ni enslave the Bahro?
7.) What effect does the tablet have on the Bahro?
8.)Who made the tablet?
9.) Where do the other 'artifacts' (pedestals, poles) come from?
10.) Who set up the journey in EoA with the tablet's keep and the four ages?
11.) How do the Bahro link?



My speculation...

1.) If you believe Esher then they are from Noloben, and not natively from D'ni. But that brings up some of the other questions.

2.) No idea. Very pertinent if it really is the home-world of the Bahro.

3.) Still no real idea. Assumably contact was a good chunk of time ago, so probably at least a thousand or more years ago, but whether it's up to 10,000+ is questionable.

4.) An extension of the last question, the farther back the we imagine 'contact' to happen, the more involved things seem to get (and more interesting!).

5.) Both the Bahro and the Terahnee Ahrotahntee have a very strong theme of being 'unseen'. If the Rohnay had slaves, and had this practice of training slaves to be unseen, then it's understandable that both Terahnee and D'ni would also follow this ideology, and then D'ni would apply it to the Bahro. Or if the Bahro go back to Garternay then they get it straight from the source.

6.) This depends on when contact with the Bahro happened, but assuming it was after D'ni was founded, then it seems illogical for a people who could already link to limitless ages would seek to enslave the Bahro for linking. If it wasn't to use the Bahro, then perhaps it was to restrict the Bahro. The D'ni clearly couldn't enslave them with chains, so something else would have to inhibit them. But the D'ni, who were so in love with rules, probably wouldn't have made something like the tablet.
7.) Given what happens in EoA, the tablet is assumably the source of a great amount of power, and is responsible for restricting or controlling the Bahro. How that works is any ones guess right now.

8.) I agree that it doesn't seem to be D'ni at all. But I doubt the Bahro made it.

9.) According to Esher the pedestals (and the poles) are not D'ni. They could be of Bahro origin, or of the same origin of the tablet.

10.) Both Esher and Yeesha took the journey in EoA. This leads me to believe that neither of them put the journey together for us to take (like Yeesha's journey in Uru Prime, and she might have stolen the idea from the EoA journey (story wise rather than developer wise)). So who was responsible for the tablet being 'locked up' so we had to venture through ages to get a hold of it? The Bahro? Why would they lock it up just so we could release it and return it to them? So then was it the D'ni, and it was just waiting there for many years? And why is the Keep in K'veer? Why didn't Atrus or Gehn try to get the tablet?

11.) This is one of the biggest questions I have. Not so much how. Esher's lab seems to support the idea that the Bahro's physiology lends itself to naturally being able to link. But how is that possible? What are the implications for Linking Theory? And how is it the Bahro are able to control it? Apparently Esher has somehow copied their ability to link at will. But even if it is so much as touching a Bahro pelt, how does he control where he links to? This likely relates directly to how the Bahro are controlled by the tablet, and their amazing abilities to control the physical world through the art.

One last thing.

kiyoshigawa wrote:

There seems to be a link between the star fissure, the Cleft, and the Bahro, but it is unclear what the link may be. This link is shown through the Pillars presence being tied to the star fissure, as once all the Pillars are present on Rhelto, the fissure is outlined, and their removal opens the fissure.

-The Bahro were said to have been enslaved by the D'ni for 10,000 years, which roughly coincides with the time the D'ni first came to the Cavern. This has led many to believe that the Bahro were the original inhabitants of the Cavern. This raises the question of why a race with the power to link to anywhere in the universe at will would choose to reside in the D'ni cavern. This may imply a significance for the cavern itself in terms of linking in general, or it may be as simple as the Bahro are natively from the cavern.

That is very interesting... You know, I never thought of that before. Is it possible that either Katran or Anna had contact with the Bahro? Is there a connection between Anna and the Bahro that might be related to D'ni's fall? The star fissure seems like something the Bahro would be capable of creating.

RAWA wrote:

The daggers which mysteriously appeared around the island, and the lava filled fissures were made possible by her odd style - which I cannot explain. And although Catherine and Anna intended for the lava filled fissures as part of their plan to rescue Atrus while still leaving Gehn trapped in his Fifth Age, the Star Filled Fissure was not intentional or anticipated.

To me, it remains the most mysterious object in all the D'ni histories. (letter from 97)

I don't think that the D'ni would have trained themselves to not see the Bahro as the Terahnee did with their slaves. If my memory serves me correctly, Atrus went to Terahnee with a number of D'ni survivors, all of whom were appalled by the Terahnee practice of slavery.

Going back even further, D'ni was founded by a group of reformers, seeking a humble honest existance... right around the time the Bahro were being enslaved. That seems like a rather odd way to live in humility.

Perhaps the enslavement actually predates D'ni, perhaps it was the Ronay who enslaved the Bahro. Theortically, Noloben could have been written on Garterney, and I seem to recall that Ri'neref felt Garterney had been doomed as punishment for a crime of pridefulness. Perhaps enslaving the Bahro would qualify?

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Alec Winters KI 06399622

"History is irredeemable."
- Kain, Scion of Balance