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PostPosted: Wed May 10, 2006 8:08 am 
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No, this isn't a cursor topic, believe it or not ;).

What I'd like to see in Uru is a level of interaction with the environment more along the lines of Shadows of the Colossus than "Myst with a Crash Test Dummy" ;). All of these suggestions pretty much come from watching the avatar's movements in Shadows and going "y'know, it'd be really handy if I could do that in Uru".

First, walking up to a low enough wall (like the one the Relto page is on in Kemo) and jumping (perhaps while pressing a button?) would cause the avatar to grab the ledge at the top, and when goaded by a "move forward" input, he/she would climb up onto the ledge and stand up, rather than having to go through the rather absurd rock-jumping maneuver we have to deal with now. A "move backwards" input or just releasing the special "grabbie hand" button would cause the avvie to let go and drop back down to the ground. By extension, I'd also like to see this applied to situations where you could potentially fall off of a ledge (Ae'Gura, Ghreesen, Kadish, Gira, the list goes on...) without meaning to. If you stop moving forward and haven't jumped by the time you reach the edge of the cliff you're wandering off of, the avatar would, rather than sliding off and panic-linking, turn and grab the ledge behind him, enabling you to climb back up and either try again or keep your distance ;). Perhaps require aforementioned grabbie hand button to activate this, lest we annoy those who like wandering off of ledges with no regard for personal safety ;).

It would also be nice to have the ability to grab a ledge in the event a jump falls slightly short of its target, or leap up and grab onto a ladder hanging from the ceiling without needing a custom "click the ladder to activate the 'grab ladder' action" animation (though perhaps for the sake of our sanity, suspended ladders and the like should have a "leap up there" clickable region so we don't have to mess with aligning ourselves ;). I don't know if creating clickable regions for the other ledge-related actions would be as intuitive or useful, though, especially if it becomes a general-purpose "any ledge within reach is grab-able" thing rather than a special "run into all the walls to see if you can climb up them by hovering your cursor over them" thing.

Additionally, I'd like to see the avatars be a bit more aware of and responsive to objects on the ground under a foot in height. Sometimes you can glide over (or through) these objects as you scuttle about the City, but other times (like the sandbags holding up the DRC tent, or the slightly larger lumps of rubble at Ferry Terminal) these things stop you dead in your tracks. An avvie more aware of elevation changes in all of its movements would be great (because run-gliding up stairs does look a little weird). Maybe even a little "oops, almost tripped!" action if you land a step in the wrong spot while running. I realize the tripping thing is a bit over the top, and the height awareness thing may require a lot of re-tooling of the avatar's rig, but the grabbing ledges thing (and maybe climbing ropes or walls of ivy, since we've got a wall-climb animation already, while I'm at it) would be a welcome addition to the soccer-freak avvies we have at the moment (look ma, no hands!) ;).


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PostPosted: Wed May 10, 2006 8:12 am 
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Haha! The tripping and such would be really funny. :D I do agree that if Cyan is going to put more platforming in, ledge-grabbing would be a very welcome addition.

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PostPosted: Wed May 10, 2006 8:25 am 
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Wonderful suggestions, Alahmnat! The ledge-grabbing option, even if it was implemented only in a few places, would be nice, and so the "elevation awareness". It's a real trouble to jump on one of those sandbags, in order to... ehm... climb to the top of the tent (hope the DRC isn't checking this forum!) :oops:

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PostPosted: Wed May 10, 2006 8:43 am 
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It would be a great addition for the game :)


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PostPosted: Wed May 10, 2006 3:48 pm 
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I think that this is also a good idea, however I agree that it should only be
implimented in a few locations where its needed otherwise things might get
too 'Tomb Raider' esq for want of a better word :P plus the non-action loving
people who play may complain! I personally would prefer more swimming
locations and the ability to pick up objects instead of kicking (okay so the
picking up objects may not be feasible unless in an inventory style system
which I'm not a fan of, it would be much more entertaining to see someone
lugging around a collection of bones from Teledahn :P )

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PostPosted: Wed May 10, 2006 4:02 pm 
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While on the topic of hands... it's be nice to be able to pick up any movable item... instead if kicking them around.

909

EDIT: Ok... leave for a few minutes, and someone sneaks a post in on you with the same thing in it... oh well

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PostPosted: Wed May 10, 2006 5:30 pm 
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:wink: My apologies! *tips hat*

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PostPosted: Wed May 10, 2006 5:39 pm 
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Hehe.. Bedford, better known as the swift fox.. :lol:

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PostPosted: Wed May 10, 2006 5:59 pm 
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I like the sound of those suggetions, I don't see these as being too "Tomb Raider"ish, Although I must agree with the comparison of the URU avi to a crash test dummy, and with the same awareness of danger eccept when panic linking. It would be nice if the avi could grab a ledge if it falls just short when jumping, or being able to twist and grab a ledge if you slip. The avi's must have exteamly soft hands, they only ever seem to touch the KI and linking pannels (which I'm not sure if can ever truly touch the pannels, since you start linking immediatly). Of couse, if you really want to jump over a cliff there'd be nothing to stop you. ;)

AND I'D LIKE TO BE ABLE TO PIC UP THOSE BOTHERSOM FISH BASKETS!!!!! :x . You don't need an inventory, just that the avi can pick things up an carry them about until they put them down. I suppose they would have to put them down automaticly when linking or you'd be able to carry the baskets to Relto and drop them over the side (although that does sound tempting :twisted: )

Myst has never been about aglity tests, so giving the avi more inate aglity will be less testing on the player.


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PostPosted: Wed May 10, 2006 9:03 pm 
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If only I could change a title to that!

I guess it would cause less annoyance in that terms... so yes you've persuaded
me, I support falling and grabbing ledges and pulling yourself back up.

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PostPosted: Fri May 12, 2006 4:00 pm 
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The dynamic animation system in SotC is nothing short of great; easily one of the best currently out there. I'm afraid we're reaching more of a 'blue-skying' area here, but I agree ideally it would be great to have a more advanced animation system for the avatar. :) It would add a lot to the realism and immersion.

The 'grabbing the edge rather than falling' option would go a long way toward enhancing the platform aspect of Uru by making it much easier and thus more accessible. It is featured a lot in many true platform games (Super Mario, Prince Of Persia) and it definitely adds a lot.

Picking up objects.. aaah. I guess that was part of everybody's youth dreams right? Uru youth that is.

All those can't be done with the current engine and it would require a lot of work to properly implement, but it would be so wonderfull. 8) The lack of ability to pick up objects and the platform aspects have been some of the most criticized aspects of Uru when it was released. I agree it would be a good selling point, so to speak, to see some changes on those for the new release.


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PostPosted: Sat May 13, 2006 12:56 am 
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It's funny that you bring up Shadows of the Collossus... I was just discussing Ico (the precursor to SotC) in the cavern a few days ago, and was thinking about how amazing it would be for explorers to be able to pull eachother up to higher places, or across wide gaps, similar to the way Ico and Yorda interact.

Suppose a puzzle existed where someone had to make a very long run through an age to get to a higher point.... but another explorer wanted to work on getting the power restored to the rest of the age. The first could go to the high point, while the second fixed the power... and then the first could physically reach down and pull up the second without the second also having to make the long trek.

To add to this a bit.. suppose you had three explorers...

Explorer A, B, and C are at the bottom of a wall that's a little too high to jump up to.

Explorer B and C work together to boost Explorer A up to the ledge.

Explorer A reaches down, and pulls Explorer B up as Explorer C pushes B from behind.

Explorer A and B then reach down and can haul C up together.

Eh? Eh?!!

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PostPosted: Sat May 13, 2006 1:45 am 
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i'd like to take that a step further... allow rope climbing! and allow the end of the rope to attach to a surface. that way, one could set a line and throw it down to those at the bottom of a cliff... or repel down from the top. i've wanted a repel line from the top of the 'pillar' in gahreessen... i wanna see what's at the bottom.

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PostPosted: Sat May 13, 2006 3:32 am 
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A panic-link zone ;).


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PostPosted: Sat May 13, 2006 3:58 am 
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Star Fissure with space battles.

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