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PostPosted: Wed May 31, 2006 5:49 pm 
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aloys wrote:
I'm not familiar with the 3dsMax plugins format but I don't think you can actually get the source code directly from it. Cyan would have to release the source code under some license to give it some legal frame.


I agree that an open-source license would be the best for spreding the tools to other applications. The GPL seems a little too open for something like this, although I'm usually a big fan of it. Something like that with a tribute and noncommercial bit would be great, though. If I'm reading everything correctly, Cyan is a great fan of open-source (Python, open-source section on site...)

Even if the source isn't released, the plugin could help developers by creating specific test ages. They won't have to dig through the (very complex) Prime and PotS ages to find what they want, they merely make an age with just one thing in it.

Realistically, I don't expect Cyan to release the source code. Although it could be used for good (Blender), it could also be used maliciously. I don't know how, but it's bound to happen eventually. One thing this reminds me of: when Blender was sold on eBay for $100.

aloys wrote:
Well first of all if tools are released they shouldn't be cut down for two reasons: first that would limit our abilities, and second, in software development sometimes 'cutting down' means more work.


I would never be a fan of a cut-down exporter, I'm just saying, if Cyan feels they need to do it, they can. Anything would be appreciated.

Rieuco wrote:
Gehn's method is beautifully suited to players using a special age creation tool, since you would essentially be crafting your age from a limited number of premade models.


I agree. This would be a wonderful way to make ages. And, it would fit very well IC. However, sadly, I don't think it will come, at least not from Cyan. Let me dig up a quote...

Uru Live Survey wrote:
Age Creation Tools - the ability to create Ages, albeit with fairly complex tools


ah, there we are.

I think that says it all: albeit with fairly complex tools. There are (probably) not going to be any nice standalone gui PaC age creators. Again, I'm hoping for one, I just don't think it's coming, and don't want to get my hopes up. Kinda like (unfounded optimism).

huh... maybe we should make a (_______ optimism) chart.

agrif (co)(uo)(io)


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PostPosted: Wed May 31, 2006 10:24 pm 
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Good news everyone!

http://www.cyanworlds.com/cgi-bin/ubb-cgi/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=8;t=000800
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Cyan wants fan-made ages in Uru Live. The topic of fan-made ages and all that is entailed in that discussion will be addressed at a later date.

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PostPosted: Thu Jun 01, 2006 12:14 am 
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This was already strongly suspected, but seeing it actually written is very nice. Hence:

Image

(It just so happen that I had used this very same image in last october when the blender plugin that enable us to create Ages was first released.)


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PostPosted: Sun Jun 04, 2006 12:04 am 
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A small heads up for those of you on this thread. I was at the 9am Town Hall meeting this morning and the Cyan rep mentioned fan based ages. Basicly he said that they would be brought in but on their own server to start. Cyan still has to work out how to QA them to prevent them from becoming traps for the unwary. He didn't give a timeline for when this would happen. But when they are opened up it will be "Explorers beware" until they are veted and [maybe] moved to the main URU Live servers. They might have downloaded the chat already to the DRC Liasions site. Or you could come to the 9pm Town Hall meeting tonight to listen to the guy and ask about age creation tools. (9pm MDT [New Mexico] time at the Town Hall 1 neighborhood - it was at the very bottom of the public access list when I looked this morning.)

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PostPosted: Sun Jun 04, 2006 12:28 am 
And who is going to pay for this server. I tried this route having offered to host the dataserver for the Volcano project (I.E. Fan Ages dataserver). I was even accepting donations. Not too many people offered to help and I couldn't afford to pay it by myself. Now if people want to donate towards a server then I will be happy to get another server again. But without donations I just can't do it by my self.


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PostPosted: Sun Jun 04, 2006 1:26 am 
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I assume that GameTAP would, since that is what they are there for. Most likely they'll agree because custom ages = more people want to play = more cash.

Cash is good for corporate peopel, right?

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PostPosted: Sun Jun 04, 2006 1:55 am 
Chogun didn't say who would do it. I expect it would be a server funded by the fans.


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PostPosted: Sun Jun 04, 2006 2:19 am 
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:mrgreen: How to open a hornet’s nest…

Where do you draw the line at Fan created Ages? If any Tom, expletive, or Harry is going to have the ability to start churning out Ages – you can just imagine the consequences. If Cyan make the tools available – they will obviously make them available for all – won’t they? The problem I see is that a small number of the created Ages will be excellent and expertly done – and others – well… we’ll just say not as good. Amateur programmers by average wear blinkers – they are completely convinced that their programming is the best thing since sliced bread. Someone has to tell them their Ages don’t come up to scratch – and this would create animosity – you try telling someone who has spent hours creating an Age that it’s not good enough.

I envisage a lot of Ages not meeting the quality that we associate with a Cyan game – you will get a lot of disappointed fans who thought they were expert.

Even if the fan created Ages are exclusive to one’s own realm – some people are going to have something that others don’t have, or they will simply lack the ability. I would imagine that most Uru enthusiasts haven’t an inkling anyway when they read the techno-speak in this thread. Is creating Ages in Uru Live only going to be for a select number of techie members then?

Then there’s the story line – is it credible that countless Explorers with limited access to an archaeological dig in this modern era have the ability to write Ages?

Is Cyan that deficient in its creativity department that we have to rely on players’ programming contributions?

Are we not asking too much?

Forever a 100% Cyan fan - I will be there in Uru Live – and it’s going to be very interesting to see how this suggestion of Fan Created Ages develops.

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PostPosted: Sun Jun 04, 2006 4:59 am 
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It is more than just a suggestion my friend.

What your failing to see is there is already a fan content creation community waiting in the wings.

What you describe may happen to a small degree, but I doubt anyone would throw together an age in a few hours and expect to be showered with praise. At least no one I know.

Cyan is trying to deal with the unavoidable. We are out there, we are creating, and we will do everything in our power to get our work to the public eye. If our work is simply not good enough for you, don't use it. It won't hurt anyone I knows feelings one bit.

On another note it seems to me that Cyan *wants* fan created content. Not just for our benifit, but because they acknowledge the creative talent in the Myst/Uru community.

To me your fears are unjustified. Then again I know alot more about creating things for Uru than most, so I guess I am biased. Oh well.

Just for the record. If you are worried about amatures making ages and content, why don't you try your hand at it to guage how difficult it is? Then you would be speaking form a more informed stand point.

It seems to me the content creation in Uru Live won't be any less or more difficult than it is in Uru now. The only thing I see that might get easier is getting information straight from CYan on how to do things. Other than that you would be on your own.


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PostPosted: Sun Jun 04, 2006 6:14 am 
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Tokai, while it is true that very few fan created ages would up to "Cyan standards" that is no reason to dismiss them entirely.

I've seen my fair share of fan made content, and I've seen it cover the entire spectrum, from horrid abominations, to lightyears beyond what the original creators made.

Yes some people will always view their own work with rose colored glasses, but that is no reason to scrap the entire idea.

The solution I would suggest is simple:

When you create and age, it appears on the bookshelf in your Relto, but only your bookshelf. You can invite your friends to see your age, just as you could invite them to any of the offical ages on your shelf.

At this point, once the age is complete, there should be an option to submit it to a public library for other players to explore. If there is to be any approval committee, it would naturally occur at this phase, but I don't think it's really neccessary.

This allows people to tinker with the idea, and improve their skills before making the age public.

The golden rule of player created content is: If you don't like it, don't use it. In this case, if you link to a player created age, and it's so awful you wretch in disgust, then link out, and pick another book.

It might also be benifical to include a method for ranking player made ages, so that each person who explores an age, can vote on it's quality thus giving an indicator to those browsing for new ages which ones are considered "the best."

It is also simply a more offical form of how player created content is managed for any other game.

As for the question of whether or not explorers should be able to create ages... I think it fits in perfectly with the plot.

Yeesha wants the explorers to "regrow" D'ni, and to become the new people of D'ni, the explorers would have to learn how to write ages.

Really, the only thing inhibiting the explorers from creating ages is the lack of books, ink, and knowledge, and again, I think Yeesha would be just the sort to provide those things, probably against the wishes of the DRC.

Speaking realistically, a graphical program for creating ages is not out of Cyan's reach. Several other game companies have created programs of a similar nature already, which have been proven to sustain a fan base for games with limited new content, with a minimal drop in technical quality.

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PostPosted: Sun Jun 04, 2006 6:52 pm 
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If a fan creates an Age, wouldn't it have to be beta tested?

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PostPosted: Sun Jun 04, 2006 7:57 pm 
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IMHO I don't like the idea of fan created ages in Uru Live. Unless it was in character. (Perhaps a kortee'nea nexus that could translate what we write into Garo-hevtee. I know this isn't likely to happen, but I can day dream. :) ) Otherwise, I think fan created ages will ruin the realism of Uru for me.


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PostPosted: Sun Jun 04, 2006 8:49 pm 
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I'm sure that they won't just be thrown in. Cyan will have to approve them.


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PostPosted: Sun Jun 04, 2006 9:07 pm 
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I think a simple beta just to make sure the age is completable would be neccessary.

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PostPosted: Sun Jun 04, 2006 9:11 pm 
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Still, I guess it all depends on how Cyan would bring the ages into the game.

If it's supposed to be that the explorer made it. That's not believable to me.

If Cyan incorporated it like their own ages (Perhaps rather than saying that <Name of explorer> created it, The DRC could say that <Name of explorer> found it.), then you would have the problem of storyline conflicts. Seems like an awful lot of work for Cyan to check all that out, considering all the people who will be submiting their ages.


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