[ Back during Choru I had two things I begged for repeatedly. I was probably very annoying about them. Today I resurrect them both. ]

On the questionnaire, I'm putting "Improved graphics" in my top five. I need to make it clear what I'm talking about, though, because I'm not talking about general poly counts or textures or shader effects.

I'm talking about 1) Moving linking book panels and 2) The visual effect of linking. I think these two things would add significantly to the immersion and goosebumpiness of Uru (and goosebumpiness is what Cyan is all about, as far as I'm concerned).

To me, one of the most goosebumpy things in Uru is hearing someone link in or link away two rooms away. It's something we'd always done only in first-person, and now we can see it and hear it across the cavern. Except all we see is an obvious transparency effect.

And we KNOW that's not what it really looks like when you link. What it really looks like is, I reckon, pretty close to what it looks like when the Bahro pillars link away. Now THAT's a goosebumpy effect. How much cooler would it be to see people doing that from across the Bevin courtyard?

And the linking books are the same sort of thing. We all KNOW that real linking books have moving linking panels. The stationary ones in Uru deprive us of those little bits of fantasy-chills we all got in the original games.

This is little stuff, and I know that back in the day it was more important to get the game out the door than spend time on them. But I think they're important to the Myst-y ambience, and well worth the time it would take to implement them now.

SFT

I agree, those would be nice to have.

It would probably up the link-lag, though.

Now I would have to agree w/ 75th here. Those, albeit relatively minor, improvements would have a rather je ne sais quoi. Kinda like that feeling of rightness of an iPod (no, I do not own one myself) with the size/weight/turnwheel.

I think that by punctuating the actual linking process (much like 75th recommends, ei. bahro pillars) for everyone else will give pause to remind us all the truely uniqueness of this work. It isn't merely any old portal that one steps into, after all.....

also agree with the neccessity of the linking panel animation. puzzled why it wasn't there in the first place as well.

I catch what you mean when you say goosebumpiness. I get chills when I hear the linking sound.

It'd be nice to have moving panels, and I don't think it'd up the netcode lag, unless when you see other avatars open their Relto book on their belt, that panel moves too. When you look at a book, you're the only one looking at it. No one else has to see the moving panel. They could take all the books that are on a stand in the game, and close them so they can add moving panels to those as well.

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The way I understand it, linking panels DON'T move in reality... only in the Myst games for "artistic license". And since Uru reflects reality...

Am I wrong?

vidkid7 wrote:

The way I understand it, linking panels DON'T move in reality... only in the Myst games for "artistic license". And since Uru reflects reality...

Am I wrong?

That's the official retcon, yes.

I have to agree with the improved linking animations; allthough the fadeing works well enough, something else (like how the bharo poles do it) would be nice.

I've always wanted to see the scene around me sort of streach away, then get that "subspace tunnle" effect you see in Stargate.

Deledrius wrote:

vidkid7 wrote:

The way I understand it, linking panels DON'T move in reality... only in the Myst games for "artistic license". And since Uru reflects reality...

Am I wrong?

That's the official retcon, yes.

Actually, no it's not. Just because something's in Uru doesn't mean it's perfect fact (that would mean we'd have to invent some overelaborate explanation for why there's a Byzantine mosaic and an Arabic door in Ae'gura). And when asked why the panels did not move in Uru, not once was it ever said that it was because that was the way it was; every reason given by Cyanists was a technical issue, of the issues of loading an Age every time you opened a Book, so you would see the people inside in real time.

Here's what I say -- have animated Linking Panels, even if you can't have them in perfect real time. The advantage of immersion more than outweighs the disadvantage of a small thing like being able to see the people in realtime.

and I also agree with the idea of the linking effect -- and, since it was already done in Uru with the Bahro stone, it can't be that hard to make it work that way for people linking. That would really add to the mystery and immersion than a simple fade.

Quote:

I've always wanted to see the scene around me sort of streach away, then get that "subspace tunnle" effect you see in Stargate.

Ooooh, that's a nice idea. I bet there would be a way to efficiently give at least some form of distortion while linking instead of, again, a simple boring fade.

Oh but instead of the Bahro poles, what about an effect like in Exile... which is
right? Which do you prefer? Personally I'm not sure, I like the Bahro pole
effect however the Exile way is the way I imagined it (or like the Matrix come
to think of it). What about an effect where you almost dove into the book?

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Gadren wrote:

Deledrius wrote:

vidkid7 wrote:

The way I understand it, linking panels DON'T move in reality... only in the Myst games for "artistic license". And since Uru reflects reality...

Am I wrong?

That's the official retcon, yes.

Actually, no it's not. Just because something's in Uru doesn't mean it's perfect fact (that would mean we'd have to invent some overelaborate explanation for why there's a Byzantine mosaic and an Arabic door in Ae'gura). And when asked why the panels did not move in Uru, not once was it ever said that it was because that was the way it was; every reason given by Cyanists was a technical issue, of the issues of loading an Age every time you opened a Book, so you would see the people inside in real time.

Well, I can't find the RAWA quote atm (I thought it was on the D'ni Desk Reference), but I'm fairly certain that the IC explanation is that officially the panels never moved, and that we ever saw them do so was artistic license. Like so many other things in Uru, the "real world" version was less dramatic simply for technical limitations, not because Cyan actually thought that making it less dramatic would be somehow more dramatic. Of course they've also said time and again that they just couldn't get it to look right the way they wanted within the constraints of an online game, but that doesn't change the explanation we're given about what it means for IC purposes.

As for your byzantine and arabic influences... I think it's been strongly implied that those surface art and architecture modes were inspired by D'ni living amongst humans... Not too convoluted an explanation, nor entirely unbelievable, once everything else is taken into account.

Bedford wrote:

Oh but instead of the Bahro poles, what about an effect like in Exile... which is
right? Which do you prefer? Personally I'm not sure, I like the Bahro pole
effect however the Exile way is the way I imagined it (or like the Matrix come
to think of it). What about an effect where you almost dove into the book?

I prefer the Riven style the most, and it's probably been on of the biggest of the minor not-quite-right things in Uru. I'd love to see the linking look a bit less generic (and not quite like the bahro stones, but the particle physics are there nonetheless, we just need a new effect), and I think everyone can agree on the moving linking panels.

Yeah Exiles linking motion is as I imagined it too, I prefer that to the linking of the Bahro Totems.

Mind you I kinda like the simple fading. I'd rather not see some tunnel stargate type thing, when I link to an Age I wanna be linking to an age not waiting for a fancy graphic then linking.

Having a predetermined linking animation for the books even if it doesnt show people running around is a good idea, just as long as they don't do the full screen thing like Exile and Revelation, I like that effect its nice in the games but it doesnt belong in Uru IMO

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OK. I'll publish my ideas.
The Books:
I think it will be not bad addition if the linking panel will be transformed into 'window' to the age. When we look at the book (I think it's not nessesary to add additional 'picking up' as we see in URU - when we click on book we see it near our eyes but other people see it in it's place and we are just standing near for them. It's better to let pick up what's able to pick up. When the book is fixed like in nexus panels we can only touch it but not to bring closer to our eyes). OK, when we carefully look at the book, it's linking panel is near the center of screen, we are not looking around but only at book the data transfer from age begins. If URU will have architecture like TES series (I mean not divided by levels with unique objects in each, but with the common pack of models and textures) we have to download only landscape vertices, indexes of textures and coordinates of placed objects which are preloaded during the game start. And it will not take much time to get this data. And when preload completes the drawing on the book becomes real. If you read the 6th book of Chronicles of Narnia you understand what I mean. Or cards in Chronicles of Amber. When you touch it it's a variant to blur the screen to the gold glow and when loading completes unblur to the new scene.
The linking effect:
I think it was a good one in Real Myst (when Atrus links to library) and in Exile. The shining particles are emmited from panel, runing up along the hand, surrounds all the body, mesh of avatar disappears and particles returns to the panels by their routes. It's not hard to do and if animation is fast enough it will look not bad.

They could at least make a picture (maybe an animation) appear when the loading bars appear.

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Quote:

As for your byzantine and arabic influences... I think it's been strongly implied that those surface art and architecture modes were inspired by D'ni living amongst humans... Not too convoluted an explanation, nor entirely unbelievable, once everything else is taken into account.

I'm not talking about influences. I'm talking about exact copies. The Arabic door has actual Arabic writing on it. The Byzantine mosaic is identical to one found on the surface. There's no way you can explain that away and not make it overly complicated.

And I'd like to find your source for the IC explanation of Linking Panels. Until that time, however, the technical reason stands, since that one is well-documented.