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PostPosted: Fri Aug 24, 2007 6:31 pm 
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As many already know, there's something new in the lower Pellet Bahro Cave that wasn't there in The Path of the Shell.

[spoiler=Click to reveal image.]Image[/spoiler][spoiler=Click to reveal image.]Image[/spoiler]
Which is actually an identical (not similar, actually identical) copy of the "outline" of this:

[spoiler=Click to reveal image.]Image[/spoiler][spoiler=Click to reveal image.]Image[/spoiler]
This of course leads many to speculate that once we finish Ahnonay, we'll get to the lower Pellet Bahro Cave, and they'll be an imager code which we can use to get a message (most likely from Yeesha) in the Cleft. While I believe this to be true, there's one little problem: How are we going to get the combination?

I'm afraid what we did in The Path of the Shell won't cut it here. In that game, for those of you that don't know, there were clues spread out through all of the Ages we went to (The Watcher's Sanctuary, Er'cana, The Ahnonay Temple, and Ahnonay) that referenced specific lines in "The Words of the Watcher" to give us hints at what to do. Putting all those clues together, we were able to solve the three puzzles near the end of the game, leading up to the final one. One of these puzzles required us dropping a pellet with the specific combination given to us in the upper Pellet Bahro Cave (which is still there) in the hole there, and then going to the lower Pellet Bahro Cave from Ahnonay, which was 14 1/2 minutes in the past. If you waited that amount of time (minus what it took to get you there), the pellet would fall down and light up the walls of the cavern, revealing Yeesha's Life Story along with a clue for the final puzzle in The Path of the Shell. Though Yeesha's Life Story can still be seen on the walls, the clue for the puzzle, most likely, is not there. In fact, in Myst Online: Uru Live, we haven't been given any of these clues in the places that they've been. We have "The Words of the Watcher," yes, but we simply have that as reading material dropped in The Watcher's Sanctuary.

I'm afraid we won't be time-traveling this time, and I also know that a lot of people are going to try that and be, simply, unsuccessful. The fact of the matter is, your Bahro Stone will link someone to the top or bottom of the Pellet Bahro Cave should they have access to your Er'cana or Ahnonay, in much the same way the Ashem'en books transports someone to that silo should they simply use the book that was placed in your Er'cana. You don't even need to be there to share the stone (which actually doesn't work out anyways, it only causes some glitches in the game). Take that into account, and it would be impossible for the game to have you "travel though time."

(Of course, a very unlikely situation would cause the "time-travel" to happen again, but have the two halves of the Pellet Bahro Cave be separate Ages, which would only reveal the time traveling as a hoax and raise questions as to how the pellet gets to the top half and drop down 14 1/2 minutes after you drop it in the first one. However, there's very little chance of this happening.)

The way I see it, the game is going to have a randomly chosen combination for each avatar's Pellet Bahro Cave. This combination will not be activated until you reach the lower half from the Bahro Stone in Ahnonay, and even once activated, will not be viewable unless a pellet is dropped down. Once in the lower half, you'll have two choices: You can discover the combination by yourself, or have someone help you.

To do it by yourself, you would simply drop a "proper" pellet (one with the combination on the walls of the Pellet Bahro Cave) from the upper half into the lower half, and then run around and jump like a maniac trying to see the combination. Though you'll be able to see it, it will require most likely more than one pellet, and good jumping skills. Though you'll be able to discover the combination for yourself, there may be something else down there which you cannot see by jumping around, which is why it will help to do it together.

To do it together, you'll need at least two people (one of whom should be you). You can be in either the top or bottom half, though I suggest bottom half if it's your own Pellet Bahro Cave. Send someone else an invite to your Er'cana (or invite them to your Relto, but it is easier if they have an invitation that they can use again once they link out of the Pellet Bahro Cave). Make sure you have a batch of the "proper" pellets ready for them to use. They'll link to to the top half with a pellet, where it will drop down and illuminate the cave, allowing you to write down the combination, or take a picture of it, along with being able to see if there's any other clues down there to get (or you can just look around at the nice pictograms). You can always simply invite someone to Ahnonay and have them go to the bottom half and tell you what the combination is, or take a picture for you, but it is much easier and effective for the person whose cave it is to be at the bottom.

But that's just my theory, what do you think? :)

Wow I've just realized how many times I've used the phrase "Pellet Bahro Cave."


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PostPosted: Fri Aug 24, 2007 6:45 pm 
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Frankly, I doubt that it will take two people to solve this. I suspect that it will just work as it used to, and 14 1/2 minutes after you drop a pellet, a pellet will appear in the lower cave. I wouldn't be at all surprised if the upper and lower cave were considered unconnected, in game terms, and you won't be able to wave to each other, or see each other as "Age Players." But who knows? Game-wise, it will physically work fine for people to chat from above and below, while still having a 14 1/2 minute wait for the pellet to drop.

In story terms, either choice will leave a plot hole, but it's not a new plot hole: it was just as nonsensical in PotS, there just wasn't anyone else to discuss the nonsense with. If you use the empty vault as your example, that exists as a DIFFERENT vault (i.e. the changed door structure), so the lower cave could be a different place than the upper cave. Or they could be the same, and the DRC can tell us "we don't know why it works that way, the bahro can do weird things."

As a rule, Logical Discussion has no place in a time-travel story. Time travel stories are inherently dumb at some level, even the ones with lots of pseudoscience in the script.


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PostPosted: Fri Aug 24, 2007 6:48 pm 
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What do you want a combination for? PotS is being repurposed.


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PostPosted: Fri Aug 24, 2007 7:04 pm 
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Ichabod_L's pictures are very convincing about needing to use the Cleft imager as part of the solution. But based on Er'cana, we will need to finish in the Bahro Cave to acquire the second half of the ring. What's the connection between the Cleft imager and getting to the Bahro Cave, if any? The imager shows us a Relto page now. Will a different combination show us a different page? Or will it conjure up a Bahro portal to get to the cave to get the remaining half of the ring?

The lack of a portion of the fireplace code also has consequences to how the inclusion of the Myst Library and fireplace puzzle might be affected. I'd really like that fireplace in my Relto.

This is fun. :)

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PostPosted: Fri Aug 24, 2007 8:34 pm 
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First of all, there's part of the fireplace code in the [spoiler]alternate Kadish Vault, on one of the papers.[/spoiler] My personal opinion about the caves is that there will be two ways to solve it: One with two people, one above and one below, and one with the [spoiler]KI light[/spoiler].

As for the Bahro wedge, I think there will just be another shell hologram in Ahnonay somewhere like there was in Er'cana.

Also: Couldn't the hologram of Yeesha give us a Myst book?


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PostPosted: Fri Aug 24, 2007 9:35 pm 
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vidroth wrote:
Frankly, I doubt that it will take two people to solve this. I suspect that it will just work as it used to, and 14 1/2 minutes after you drop a pellet, a pellet will appear in the lower cave. I wouldn't be at all surprised if the upper and lower cave were considered unconnected, in game terms, and you won't be able to wave to each other, or see each other as "Age Players." But who knows? Game-wise, it will physically work fine for people to chat from above and below, while still having a 14 1/2 minute wait for the pellet to drop.

That would be impossible in IC terms. Let's say that were to happen. Should you drop a pellet of any combination into the hole in the bottom half, it dissolves, yet somehow triggers the other hole to drop one 14 1/2 minutes later. Somehow that unconnected cave can not only receive that signal, but create an identical pellet of any type in only 14 1/2 minutes when they can take many house to make, and have it somehow drop out of a hole in the ceiling. There are times when saying the impossible is possible simply because of "Yeesha/Bahro magic" is just kind of unacceptable. This works the same with it being the same cave, only it sends the signal to the same cave, and 14 1/2 minutes later the person in the top will suddenly see a pellet appear out of nowhere or simply drop from the ceiling.

vidroth wrote:
In story terms, either choice will leave a plot hole, but it's not a new plot hole: it was just as nonsensical in PotS, there just wasn't anyone else to discuss the nonsense with. If you use the empty vault as your example, that exists as a DIFFERENT vault (i.e. the changed door structure), so the lower cave could be a different place than the upper cave. Or they could be the same, and the DRC can tell us "we don't know why it works that way, the bahro can do weird things."
Actually, the alternate vault is in the same Age as the other one, meaning you either traveled through time, or the book in the first vault transported you to another area in the same Age where the other vault is located.

Actually, the alternate vault is in the same Age as the first one. Meaning either A) the book linked you to a different time in the same Age, or B) the book linked you to a different place in the same Age with a near-identical vault.

Rusty_Russell wrote:
What do you want a combination for? PotS is being repurposed.

Not a combination for the fireplace, but a combination for the cleft imager.

JWPlatt wrote:
Ichabod_L's pictures are very convincing about needing to use the Cleft imager as part of the solution. But based on Er'cana, we will need to finish in the Bahro Cave to acquire the second half of the ring. What's the connection between the Cleft imager and getting to the Bahro Cave, if any? The imager shows us a Relto page now. Will a different combination show us a different page? Or will it conjure up a Bahro portal to get to the cave to get the remaining half of the ring?

I doubt the two (or three or four or whatever) Bahro caves are connected. Most likely, one will appear somewhere in the Age as a hologram as it did in Er'cana, and that will get you your wedge. However, they'll also be the Bahro stone to the Pellet Bahro Cave in the same place it was in The Path of the Shell, and that will lead you to a new message in the cleft, with a new speech and even possibly a new reward or Age (but I doubt a new Age). I don't believe the hologram imager and the Relto page imager are both connected by the combination for the first. Most likely the other one will still have simply a Relto page.

DanTheMystFan wrote:
First of all, there's part of the fireplace code in the
[spoiler]alternate Kadish Vault, on one of the papers.[/spoiler]

Just because there's a drawing of a bunch of squares in either an "A State" or a "B State" does not mean it's a clue for the Myst Fireplace. :wink:

DanTheMystFan wrote:
My personal opinion about the caves is that there will be two ways to solve it: One with two people, one above and one below, and one with the
[spoiler]KI light[/spoiler]

Hmm, that could be possible. Perhaps the KI light can light up hidden things in the same way some of the pellets can? It'd certainly be interesting, and a way for a person by themselves to be able to see the pictograms on the lower level. However, wouldn't they also be able to see it from the top when it lights up? Or do you think the game will only allow you to see it when you're in the bottom?

DanTheMystFan wrote:
Also: Couldn't the hologram of Yeesha give us a Myst book?

It's possible, she could give us a link to a new Age. If it is Myst, however, I doubt we'd be getting anything more than the library right now.


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PostPosted: Fri Aug 24, 2007 9:54 pm 
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The note in the Kadish Vault is exactly one quarter of the solution that were used in TPotS. Compare them.

I've been told that another quarter of the code is made up in the box of rocks near the imager in the cleft, though I haven't made the comparison and cannot confirm it.

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PostPosted: Fri Aug 24, 2007 10:17 pm 
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wouldnt the same code work if its only a quater of it? ki light! definately! i was in gira with a few friends of mine in the first dark area of gira, someone had a kilight bug and it was as bright as day!(kinda) i could click stuff, and fuond out you could close that door to the two upper caves(i dont think we could do that before!) so kilight and pelets with friends, ohhh mean thought! explodeing pelets!!!! friend in the lower cave and you in upper cave! KABOOM!!! friend gets linked to relto!
or you could switch it and you in bottom, friend at top, the next thing you know your in relto!

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PostPosted: Fri Aug 24, 2007 10:37 pm 
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vidkid7 wrote:
The note in the Kadish Vault is exactly one quarter of the solution that were used in TPotS. Compare them.

Hmm... that seems to be correct. However, that most likely points towards a later release of Myst Island/Library. I doubt the other three quarters are just going to drop into our laps randomly, we've had this first one for months.

Or possibly, if Myst Island/Library is released before the rest of the code is, the fireplace may simply be blocked off or "broken" until such a time that either A) they're all released, or B) they're all released and your avatar has seen them all.

vidkid7 wrote:
I've been told that another quarter of the code is made up in the box of rocks near the imager in the cleft, though I haven't made the comparison and cannot confirm it.

It isn't. I just checked. Even if it were, it'd be kind of a strange place to put it. :P


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PostPosted: Fri Aug 24, 2007 11:44 pm 
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Well, I think this combination will be used to trigger a "you've completed the Path of the Shell!" (the journey, not the puzzle or the expansion pack) speech; maybe it will serve as a "end of Season 1" speech too.


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PostPosted: Sat Aug 25, 2007 2:21 am 
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joaopedro wrote:
maybe it will serve as a "end of Season 1" speech too.


That's a good idea. We haven't heard from Yeesha in a long time, it would be a good way for her to let us know she hasn't abandoned us.

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PostPosted: Sat Aug 25, 2007 9:25 am 
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Ichabod_L wrote:
vidkid7 wrote:
I've been told that another quarter of the code is made up in the box of rocks near the imager in the cleft, though I haven't made the comparison and cannot confirm it.

It isn't. I just checked. Even if it were, it'd be kind of a strange place to put it. :P

It isn't what? 4 * 3 box, 12 stones, 5 outside the box, 7 in the holes.


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PostPosted: Sat Aug 25, 2007 9:52 am 
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Perhaps, when the time is ready, Yeesha will hung up the references to Words and present us with Words with numbered verses in our Reltos?

By the way, from the pics with Yeesha's life story:
Image
I've seen that before! :o Our Relto island.


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PostPosted: Sat Aug 25, 2007 5:21 pm 
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[spoiler]the spark island![/spoiler] ... i forgot what i was going to say :(
Edit: also,[spoiler] is that circle in the middle the same circle in the middle of the spark island?[/spoiler]
-Calumon

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PostPosted: Sat Aug 25, 2007 5:40 pm 
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May the great search for 4*3 grids begin! I bet the old Myst code will still turn the fireplace around - there just may not be a book, but it'll work... No doubt something else'll happen. Or not. You never know.

I am interested in finding out if various lighting sources will do different things. Cyan's working against a large group of conspiracy-theorist mined people; that's a tough bunch to defeat with a puzzle. And if they do this once, we'll be running around everywhere looking for more hidden messages (and you know we'll want to find more of it...)

By the by, the neutrino field lines from the GZ don't make it to that cave, right? I mean, that'd make for an interesting radiation source. Same with the exploding pellets - kinda like flash photographs and glow in the dark things.

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