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PostPosted: Thu Dec 27, 2007 11:26 pm 
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Holidays and illness are a royal pain, lemme tell ya...

*ahem* So anyway, I'm back to trying to roll on this Archivists thing, just in time for the next All Guilds Meeting ;) (my apologies for missing the last one). I've started a few points of conversation on DPWR regarding a few finer points of the new Archive there, and would like some feedback on them if at all possible.

How to Categorize Uru - Trying to figure out how to organize the massive tangle of Uru-related content in the Archive. Suggestions welcome.
D'ni Timeline Discussion - Trying to figure out the best way to organize 10,000 years of history. I dunno how the D'ni did it, seriously... Again, suggestions are very much welcome.

On top of these two points, I'm also looking for feedback on the tags currently in use in the Archive. How would you organize some of the more loosely-defined categories? What tags (categories if you like) do you think the Archive is missing? For example, do we need a category for commonly-used terms (like IC/OOC, etc.)? A category for OOC stuff like episode and game summaries? You tell me! This Archive exists for you to use, so what do you need to make it easier for you do make use of it?

Finally, if anyone from the Guild of Cartographers and the Guild of Greeters would like to get together to discuss ways in which we can cross-link our sites to provide a more complete reference system with maps, walkthroughs, and copious amounts of historical documentation at a user's fingertips, please be sure to bring it up to me at the All Guilds Meeting, or send me a PM or post either here or on DPWR and we can set up a meeting outside of the AGM if need be.

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Last edited by Alahmnat on Mon Jan 07, 2008 12:30 am, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Fri Dec 28, 2007 4:40 pm 
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In addition to your questions, I thought i'd just bring this up for conversation -

At the DZS we've briefly discussed where groups based on the life-sciences fit into things. There was a major Guild of Chemists, but no mention of zoologists, botanists, ecologists, or even physicists or mathematicians. Some have mentioned us being part of the Archivists. What are your thoughts on that?

My theory is that we can fit in a couple of different places - Archivists, Surveyors, maybe one or two others. In the Uru guild system, I wouldn't mind being our own Guild of Naturalists. But I know there is quite a collection of naturalist info on DWPR. In your mind, are we part of the same guild, or two different guilds that work together to share info?

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PostPosted: Fri Dec 28, 2007 7:18 pm 
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My humble point of view as a messenger is that when you goals are similar(Archivists collecting data on the D'ni and DZS collecting data on the biology aspect of the D'ni ages), it is best to affiliate yourselves together in order to form a stronger guild for several reasons.
#1 Cyan not being able to give guilds to each specific organization, I feel that they would be more willing to do that for a strong guild with more guild members.
#2 I don't recommend a fusion of the 2 organizations but an affiliation/partnership as you're working on different aspect of the same goal. You'll be able to stay autonomous that way also.
#3 If other organizations(astronomists for example) with similar goals are interested in being part of the larger guild, your Guild has more manpower and increased credibility.
#4 Bigger Guild projects: Several organizations could make Guild projects touching several aspects of the guild. More guild members could participate for the project to have a greater impact in the cavern.

The Guild of Messengers is in my mind is a very good example why organizations must come together to form a stronger Guild because it benefits both the explorers and the organizations.

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PostPosted: Fri Dec 28, 2007 10:40 pm 
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I'm pretty much in agreement with Andros regarding the DZS... I think working with the DZS to cross-reference relevant material would be the most productive thing to do. Specifically, it's my understanding that the DZS's articles are written with more of a biological bent than DPWR's entries, which are more focused on establishing the context of a creature or organism within an Age and stopping at somewhat basic descriptions of said critters. I'd love to have a cross-referenced system, with DPWR's entries linking to the DZS for additional biological info, and the DZS linking back to DPWR for more contextual information, or even just linking to various entries on the Age/location in which the organism is found. I don't see any need for DPWR to "consume" the DZS into itself despite our very similar purposes, since each specializes in a particular aspect of knowledge-gathering, just as I don't expect the Cartographers or the Greeters to transfer all of their information into DPWR's Archive. Networking is a good thing, and we should definitely take advantage of it :).

It is a bit odd, though perhaps not entirely unexpected given their general focus, that the D'ni didn't have a Major life sciences Guild outside of the Chemists (though I also find their inclusion as a Major Guild unsurprising ;)). It's possible that the life sciences were all Minor Guilds, and we just don't have any information on them because of the general focus of Cyan's storytelling thus far. In fact, it seems likely that this is the case, since the D'ni used to have a Major Guild of Fine Arts, which was later split into a number of smaller, specialized Minor Guilds. Perhaps something similar happened with the science-oriented Guilds, or perhaps they'd just been that way since day one. Either way, I don't think it's necessary to strive to reproduce the exact structure of the D'ni Guilds, and perhaps a Guild of Naturalists or even a more general Guild of Life Sciences would be in order, given the substantially smaller scientific population we have in the Cavern compared to the D'ni. In any case, though, I think it's important that such a conglomerate be a group that is able to fill a need in the Cavern, rather than be a solution in search of a problem. The DZS is a great start to that, but I don't know how many of the other life sciences could be reasonably employed in the Cavern at this time given the limited focus Cyan seems to have on that segment of their storytelling.

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PostPosted: Sat Dec 29, 2007 10:41 am 
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When the DZS is doing research, I think they are more like the Surveyors. But when the research has been completed, info will be brought out, and then the DZS is more like the Archivists.

What about the Guild of Analysts? That seems like a better fit for the DZS to me.

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PostPosted: Sat Dec 29, 2007 2:17 pm 
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I've been trying to help Alahmnat with the DPWR recently and also keep on top of my DZS edits, but this time of year just seems to eat up all of your time!

I think the two sites could happily exist in some sort of union, actually I think it would be beneficial for us to come together. I don't really think it matters so much what the name of our Guild is as at the end of the day it will just be a title.

If we were to agree on coming together it would need us to use some sort of conformity to show that we are part of the same 'team' while still keeping our individual identities. And it'll require that we work a heck lot more together, both talking and writing, tagging, etc.

I'd like to help get things started by seeing how we could work together before we make any decisions on Guilds and all that jazz.

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PostPosted: Sat Dec 29, 2007 9:56 pm 
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slightperil wrote:
I'd like to help get things started by seeing how we could work together before we make any decisions on Guilds and all that jazz.

As a contributing member of DZS I concur.


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PostPosted: Wed Jan 02, 2008 8:03 pm 
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Hi Alahmnat,

Since you know what we have at the Guild of Greeter's website, let us know what you have in mind. Please feel free to PM any of our GMs or staff, or discuss what you like to see on our forum. I'll also check this thread from time to time.

We are glad to cross-link between your site and ours. However, links can become inactive or "broken" over time. This is one reason why we try to include as much material on our website, and to give credit to the source.

jarelav aka schlomo

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PostPosted: Mon Jan 07, 2008 12:28 am 
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A quick note, followed by a few more project thoughts/comments/planning ideas... I've changed the name of this topic to better reflect the discussions going on here. Now, on to the rest of the stuff...

First, I sent this as a PM to jarelav, but since it applies to more than just the GoG, I figured I'd post it here, with some extra modifications taking into account some of the stuff I've read on the DZS forum since sending this:

My thoughts for a while now have centered around trying to make the information we each have on our respective sites more inter-connected, so that newcomers can find as much, or as little, information as they need on the specific subject they're interested in. For instance, DPWR's Archive has a lot of information about Ahnonay, but none of it is really what you could call a walkthrough. Similarly, the Archive doesn't have an awful lot of user guides for things like the KI either. This is all information that the GoG has on their site, but right now visitors to DPWR need to find the GoG on their own without prompting. On the opposite side of the coin, the Archive may have more "historical" information about the Age itself, or details about the history/development of the KI that are outside of the scope of a walkthrough or guide, but visitors to the GoG website have no indication of where they might be able to find that information.

What I'm proposing is a simple system of link-backs to various pages on our respective websites, so for example, DPWR's entry on Ahnonay would contain a link to the GoG walkthrough, and perhaps eventually a link to the GoC's map of the Age, should they release one. GoG's walkthrough and GoC's map page would both link back to DPWR's entry on Ahnonay in return (and perhaps even more ideally, link to each other as well), providing an interconnected resource of information that gives visitors and new players all of the information they need or want, without requiring them to stumble across all three websites on their own.

I do agree with you that there is a need to ensure that visitors aren't treated to a broken link when attempting to use one of these cross-links, and that is perhaps where most of the work will come in over the long run. However, I think good communication and cooperation will be able to head off many of these issues before they spring up. In addition, at least as far as DPWR goes, the Archive's URLs have only changed once in the past 4 years or so, and even those old links are still re-routed into the new system seamlessly, so I wouldn't worry about suddenly having to re-do all of your pages if DPWR goes through an update. I've put in a lot of work to make sure that things remain accessible regardless of what happens to the layout of the site.

One of the things that was brought up on the DZS forum was link "branding" – or perhaps "badging" would be a better term; basically, a way to visually indicate that by following a link, you would be taken to a different site for that information. This is something I hadn't given much thought to, but thinking about it, I really rather like it. It's a nice flag for the visitor, telling them they're moving to a new site, and it does give the content a certain "brand", so after a little bit of exposure, you have some idea of what to expect when you follow a link badged with, say, the GoG logo. Setting up the icons and all of the specifics will probably be the roughest part to start with, but I'd like to get started with it before we get too deep into this cross-linking idea's execution so that we don't have to do twice as much work in the end. I think the implementation of the badges is something best left for the various sites to determine on their own, since everyone has their own content management system to deal with, but I will note that I think I can rig a system for DPWR that is both flexible and immediately usable.

----------

Secondly, I'm still looking for feedback on how to go about categorizing and organizing 10,000 years of D'ni history, as well as trying to reconcile that history across two disparate timekeeping systems. This is a really big undertaking, and I don't want to jump into it willy nilly, only to have suggestions tossed in when it's halfway finished and have to start over again. If anyone has any suggestions on where to look for help or advice outside of this forum, by all means, send me a link! :)

----------

Finally, this was brought up at the Guild Communication Meeting yesterday, and I wanted to address it here as well. A while back, ireen had the idea for a comprehensive chatlog project to be included in the Archive. I think this is still a great idea, and would love to jump in with both feet to get it started right away. However, I've got enough other projects in the Archive to deal with right now, and don't think I could give this project as much attention as it would require. I'd therefore like to put out a call for a volunteer or two to head up this project. In addition, I'd like to define a few goals for whoever chooses to take the reigns on this one:

  1. Ideally, in keeping with the new structure of the Archive, chatlogs should be contained within a single tag or group of tags for easy searching and navigation.
  2. In addition to this structure, chatlogs should be linked to by whatever timeline/history-tracking system we implement, and perhaps even more ideally, link back to those pages as well. In this manner, chatlogs would be more tied to the rest of the history of the Cavern, and not just be isolated events.
  3. Chatlogs should be posted in a raw but readable format. In other words, no graphical emoticons would be present in the log, important names (and perhaps their lines of text) would be bolded, and other important lines would ideally be indicated visually as well. I know there are a couple of chatlog formatters out there... if we could standardize on one of them and establish guidelines for the settings we use for them, that would go a long way to making the chatlog archive a uniform resource for players. Perhaps the only thing we'd need to overcome is the variance in timestamping that occurs because the logs are recorded in local time, not Cavern Time.
  4. Whoever heads this up should be willing to work with any relevant branches of the GoMe to provide links to news stories and/or formatted/cleaned up logs of an event whenever possible, preferably with appropriate link-backs to the Archive's unedited version of the logs. I did a quick perusal of the GoMe website and didn't find a chatlog resource available, so perhaps this would be something that a joint GoMe/GoA "task force" could help get started.


If anyone is interested in helping with any of these projects (Website cross-linking, link badging, history cataloguing, or the chatlog project), please contact me either on this forum or through DPWR. If anyone has suggestions on where to take these ideas to get them increased coverage or attention, please let me know where to go with them. Thanks.

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PostPosted: Sat Jan 12, 2008 12:23 am 
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Alahmnat said:
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Secondly, I'm still looking for feedback on how to go about categorizing and organizing 10,000 years of D'ni history, as well as trying to reconcile that history across two disparate timekeeping systems. This is a really big undertaking, and I don't want to jump into it willy nilly, only to have suggestions tossed in when it's halfway finished and have to start over again. If anyone has any suggestions on where to look for help or advice outside of this forum, by all means, send me a link!


Sent.... This is currently on The Puzzlers site. www.thepuzzlers.net (Reports under Dudemom) I and several others have been working on this.

And just put it in your thread at www.dpwr.net

Here

scroll to the bottom to get to the timeline link

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PostPosted: Sat Jan 12, 2008 2:14 am 
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Alahmnat wrote:
[*]Whoever heads this up should be willing to work with any relevant branches of the GoMe to provide links to news stories and/or formatted/cleaned up logs of an event whenever possible, preferably with appropriate link-backs to the Archive's unedited version of the logs. I did a quick perusal of the GoMe website and didn't find a chatlog resource available, so perhaps this would be something that a joint GoMe/GoA "task force" could help get started.[/list]


I know that Shimmer, the webmaster of the GoMe website, wanted to have a chatlog ressource soon. I'll speak to her about GoMe/GoA cooperation.

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PostPosted: Tue Jan 15, 2008 12:26 am 
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Late last week I finished updating and completing the Archives information on the Guilds, historical and restored. I wanted to post here and ask anyone who will to look over my entries on the current/restored Guilds to make sure they are accurate and complete. The goal of the articles is not to contain everything we know about each guild, but provide a sufficient summary to answer basic questions and point readers towards the guild websites for more information. I've included my guidelines for the article content to help you see the scope and information I am using and looking for.

Guild Name
Established
Guild Color
Guild Symbol

Current Guild / Restored Guild
-Responsibilities/duties
-Major events (past or recurring)
-Locations (hoods, websites)
-Important people (who are its current and former leaders)



If you have an account at DPWR you can edit the articles yourself or you can PM here or there. You can find them under the tags for people->groups or the link for each is
GoC http://www.dpwr.net/forums/index.php?au ... cle&id=905
GoG http://www.dpwr.net/forums/index.php?au ... cle&id=903
GoMa http://www.dpwr.net/forums/index.php?au ... cle&id=906
GoMe http://www.dpwr.net/forums/index.php?au ... cle&id=904
GoW http://www.dpwr.net/forums/index.php?au ... cle&id=907

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PostPosted: Tue Jan 15, 2008 1:05 am 
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Good job, Horatio. :D

Our Guild Symbol is the "Helping Hands" logo, by which players can recognize us in MO:UL.

Know a Greeter by his/her "Helping Hands" t-shirt.

As for our new leadership structure, the Guild Masters adopted it on December, 9, 2007, to become effective on January 1, 2008.

Suggested edit of the last sentence: "The current leadership consists of Grand Master Indy, and Guild Masters Ayli, Ja'de, Kurtg1265 and Rex Havoc. Tijara, the former Grand Master, remains involved with her husband Tech as both own the forum and website, and provide counsel to the current leadership."

schlomo

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PostPosted: Tue Jan 15, 2008 3:40 am 
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Okay, I've made those changes to the GoG entry. I would like to have an image of the "Helping Hands" in the entry, but my brief search of the GoG website proved fruitless. If anyone has one feel free to send it to me or post it here.

In fact, if GoC or GoMe has a logo they would like in their entry PM me or post it here. I have images of GoMa and GoW that I can copy from the historical article.

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PostPosted: Tue Jan 15, 2008 4:09 am 
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Alahmnat, Shimmer from the GoMe has posted this regarding the GoMe/GoA cooperation:

"Anubis LG, a former explorer, donated a chat log parser to the GoMe. I haven't looked at it in detail yet, but I was thinking it would be a good tool to simplify/quicken the chat log posting process. I think it's great that GoA wants to take a hand in cataloguing the chats. They can host it over there, with links from our library section, or we can host it here. Either way."

You can directly reply to the discussion through: http://messengers.sixpencemedia.com/for ... p?f=4&t=81

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