GoMe Message Service: On behalf of the GoMa and the GoW

Quote:

Shorah! The MORE roadmap recently announced by Cyan includes the following:

+ The Guild of Maintainers (in conjunction with Guild of Writers) will act as an agent in approving fan created content creation for MORE.
+ Create methods and processes for testing fan created MORE content. How this will work has not been determined but is crucial for fan created content. Then a process will be created to bring Guild of Maintainers final approved and tested content forward to main server for all users to enjoy. (Clarification added by Chogon: the final approval is by both Cyan and the Guild of Maintainers).


In the light of this, the Guildmasters of the Guild of Maintainers (GoMa) and Guild Counselors of the Guild of Writers (GoW) would like to present to the Uru community an initial draft proposal on the addition of User Created Content (UCC) to the world of Uru.

Working together with Cyan over the last few weeks, the GoMa and GoW leadership teams have developed and agreed an outline for the submission and approval process for UCC and the associated Fan Created Art (FCA) Licenses. This discussion was in private at Cyan's request, and focused on UCC material intended for Uru: Complete Chronicles.

However, we would like to suggest using this first draft of the FCA process for Uru:CC as a starting point for developing the FCA process for MORE. As the roadmap states, rules need to be defined, built on and discussed among the GoW, GoMa and Cyan before anything is finally implemented. However, Cyan intends the approval process to be mostly handled within the guilds, with the final steps being reserved for Cyan.

Note that certain parts of this proposed process cannot be changed, as Cyan has asked for them specifically.

Introduction

Cyan Worlds have published on their website Guidelines for Cyan & Cyan Worlds Asset Usage. The relevant section is that on Fan Created Content and Third Party Work (called Fan Created Art, or FCA, below) that is shared with other fans at no cost. This applies to all Cyan's and Cyan Worlds' assets, and will remain in place.

This proposal is for the Guild of Maintainers (GoMa) with the Guild of Writers (GoW) to act as agents for Cyan Worlds as far as FCA licenses associated with Uru: Complete Chronicles (Uru:CC) are concerned. The Fan Created Art covered by the proposal includes all material delivered via the Uru Library Manager (ULM) within the game itself, such as Ages, Ahra Pahts shells, collectables, or elements of the same such as textures, sounds, objects, animations, journals (including fan fiction delivered in-game), etc.

It does NOT include FCA associated with other Cyan games or delivered outside the game via website or other means -- for this material, individuals should continue to contact legal@cyan.com.

Also, MORE itself will require a stricter view of approval. GoW and GoMa may possibly lend guidance to this process but the final decision would be Cyan's.

Anyone wishing to create a ULM-delivered Age or other item needs to apply for and obtain an FCA license before their work is placed on the ULM for sharing publicly. They understand that the FCA license is a binding agreement between them and Cyan Worlds, and that they must meet its requirements.

They also understand that GoMa and GoW are the guilds that will regulate this function on Cyan's behalf. Violations of the FCA license will ultimately be brought to the attention of Cyan, and Cyan will determine the final course of action.

Once approved, the FCA license applies to all versions of an Age or body of work.

Revoking an FCA license must be an action taken by Cyan, but can be requested by the FCA panel. However, an FCA license can be denied by the FCA panel.

FCA applicants can reapply for an FCA license if they have changed the criteria that caused the denial of the FCA license in the first place.

In this instance, FCA includes any content that would be added to Uru:CC, including Ages, collectables, or elements of the same such as textures, sounds, objects, animations, journals, etc. It may be expanded in future to include material for MORE.

FCA panel

GoMa and GoW will jointly set up a panel of guild members that will serve as the contact point for the FCA process. Panel members will be chosen by the guilds' leadership teams, and will serve initially for a term of a few months. The FCA panel's work falls within the remit of the GoMa Submissions department, under the leadership of its Guildmaster.

All panel members should consider themselves under a non-disclosure agreement (NDA) with regard to any FCA application. The contents of any FCA application are confidential until/unless the applicant reveals the information themselves.

If a panel member applies for an FCA license, they will need to stand down from the panel while their application is processed.

Outline of the FCA process

1. FCA candidates will submit a proposal to the FCA panel either through a web interface or through the Uru Library Manager (ULM). The candidate will provide enough details of the age and storyline to help the approval process. The FCA candidate must agree to the FCA terms (such as by clicking on an "I agree" button).

2. Using guidelines provided by Cyan, the FCA panel, working within the remit of the GoMa Submissions Department under the leadership of its Guildmaster, will review the applications and make sure that nothing in the application conflicts with other Ages, or Cyan and Fan storylines, etc., and will approve or deny FCA requests.

3. The FCA panel will send approved applications with the agreed terms to Cyan (either immediately or in batch) for Cyan to keep on record (since the agreement is between Cyan and the FCA candidate).

4. The FCA panel will provide monitoring to ensure FCA candidates keep to the terms of the FCA license. Should there be any violations, they will be brought to the attention of Cyan, and Cyan will determine the course of action.

Messenger Szark

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My mind is never where it should be. But the MORE I think about it, the worse it gets.

Thank you again for posting this Szark!

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Guild of Maintainers Grand Master and Webmystress

In loving memory of James Oliver Rigney, 1948-2007.

So we can't do anything without the GoW now ?
I don't think that part of the comunity having ANY kind of control over what others can or can't do is a good idea... Always lead to trouble and abuse.
Good to have the guils to focus, but it should stay mandatory.

ps : Nynaeve, there's a broken link to the GOM forum after you register.

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Ewilan : #07497427

And I think it will be just fine, we are all very decent and generous people and can happily work together on this wonderful new opportunity, things will take time to set up and there will be room for any and everyone to contribute I am sure. No need for any negative vibes with such wonderful things underway! It will be fine i am sure.

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MORE OR.....

I think it's great to raise issues, and issues are not "negative vibes". I love it when issues are raised - It goes along with the new open communication I've been seeing.

Here's my take - even in a great community there are things that casue dissension. That's how it's been around here. And some fan groups have special roles, and that's a new thing - something interesting and something to look at carefully. It has nothing to do with how nice everyone is.

What I think is way way better this time around - the Guilds/groups appear to be more under Cyan's direction, with more clearly articulated rules and processes. I personally think that will help a lot. My belief is that most issues can be worked out without Cyan, but if something can't be worked out - that's what Cyan is there for.

And now that I've burbled on - read Chogun's (Mark DeForest, the Cyan Community Manager) excellent post on the topic
http://www.mystonline.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=15821


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Thanks for posting Szark!

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Retired forum mod, mszv - played as amarez in Uru
Personal blog - http://www.amarez.com, Personal twitter - http://www.twitter.com/amareze

Last edited by mszv on Thu Jul 03, 2008 9:20 pm; edited 2 times in total

Quote:

So we can't do anything without the GoW now ?
I don't think that part of the comunity having ANY kind of control over what others can or can't do is a good idea... Always lead to trouble and abuse.
Good to have the guils to focus, but it should stay mandatory.

Okay, first, that would be "So we can't do anything without the GoW and GoMa now?"

But the answer would still be the same: Yes you can do stuff. The FCA proposal that we have worked on with Cyan is to help protect everyone.

You need a FCA if you plan on creating an Age that you want to publicly distribute. Why do you need an FCA? So that you can protect yourself, protect Cyan, and protect the community.

Protect you? Yes. To keep you from even accidently using something that might have a copyright on it, or something that might get people upset with you about.
Protect Cyan? Darn tootin! No one should be able to put out an Age that contains things that people would find offensive, or that has a copyright from another company (IE, you put a Coke machine in your Age with their logo and everything.....tsk tsk, now here comes Coca Cola after you and Cyan......not good).
Protect the community? Sure, we don't want our young people seeing anything that they might find disturbing. Not that I'm saying you specifically would ever do that. But there are a LOT of people out there and you never know.

Now. Why the Guilds?

Simple.

Tony at Cyan is ONE person. Do you truly expect him to be able to cope with all the submittals for FCA's that will be flooding Cyan?
No way. Cyan needed help. So Cyan turned to who they thought would be a good start: The Guilds.

Does this mean that we (Guilds) have this ALMIGHTY POWER to wave over your heads? No.
That's Cyan's job! hehehe.

"Yah! But what about that part about the FCA Panel denying a FCA? That's not Cyan, that's the guild members doing that!"

yes, but only because they (the FCA Panel) will be following the guidelines set forth by Cyan. Period. Not because they have an agenda. Which is why they (the FCA Panel) get's rotated too. So no one, or group of people get used to telling someone Yea or Nay.

Cyan can't do everything for MORE by themselves. They just can't right now. They need partners (junior partners that is!) and that would be the Fans. But they also can't deal with a mob of people. So logically, they looked at the Guilds for that, the leaders of the guilds are a small enough group that the people at Cyan can work with them.

Does this mean you never get to tell Cyan your ideas?

Absolutely not! You can always PM or email Cyan yourself if you so desire. You an join a guild like the Maintainers and use our Proposal Forum that we've set up (shameless plug, I know, but it's true, we have it there for that reason). No one will ever keep you from trying to talk to Cyan about something......except yourself if you choose to not do anything.

I know I can't convince everyone that the Guilds are not EVIL. But there seems to be many of you that are not willing to even give this a try. Even if it means the death of Uru. Believe.

And I'll put this out there right now:

I'm one of the Guild Masters with the Maintainers. If you join my guild, and if you EVER feel that something is wrong, PM me. I'll listen and I will try to find out what is going on.
I can't say that I can do anything over at the other guilds, but let me stress that too: If you belong to another guild, or are just an explorer, and you feel something is wrong, or not right........come over to the Maintainers forum and PM me! I can't garauntee that I can fix it, but I can tell you that I will listen and try to help you. Always.

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Guild of Maintainers

/me in a cheerful voice beaming happiness after a very fun Q&A

Just like everything else in the last day or so the GoW and GoMa Uru:CC Proposal will simply become part of the recommended path to do things eventually and hopefully for our two Guilds being much much faster then the old way of getting things approved for Uru:CC. It's entirely possible like today that people will go in, grab the tools, grab the tutorials, and leave never really being part of the Guilds. <shrug>

Cyan came to the MO:UL Kirel Guilds for the legwork that was volunteered way back when, there was no way any of us in the leadership could have refused after months of wanting to do anything to help Uru. As details are ironed out and approved they will be posted via the Messengers, but as it stands the proposal is just a proposal.

P.S. mszv is right the Guild leadership is taking direction from Cyan at each step.

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Waymet

EowynCarter wrote:

ps : Nynaeve, there's a broken link to the GOM forum after you register.

Thanks Eowyn. Switched servers a couple months back and still haven't caught them all. Will get it fixed.

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Guild of Maintainers Grand Master and Webmystress

In loving memory of James Oliver Rigney, 1948-2007.

It isn't that people are evil, it's that volunteer organizations have special challenges.

I don't know about you all, but I find that the politics in a volunteer organization can be way worse than the politics at a job where you get paid. Here's why (my opinion, but I think there is stuff written about this) - let's look at where the rewards come in.

When you work at a job, you get (sometimes), influence, power (in a good way), recognition, you get stuff done, and they pay you. The "paying you part" has a calming effect. Even when things aren't going exactly your way, in terms of influence and recognition and getting your own way - you are getting rewarded with money. So, people chill out. "Hey, at least they are paying me, maybe next time around I'll have more of a say in things". I've seen this happen, time and time again. Along with all the other stuff, the paycheck is your reward.

In a volunteer organization, all your rewards are in doing stuff, yes, but in influencing people, in recognition, even in power (in a good way). That's all you get - there's no paycheck. So, the stakes are way higher. Sometimes, this makes even the best people a little wacky. Tempers flare, people think they aren't being heard, there are power struggles, and weird stuff happens. I'm seen this happen a number of times, and no, not in the forum mod group - that was a great group. People start out fine in a volunteer organization, and then things just get weird. Again, this doesn't have anything to do with people being bad or evil - things just get out of hand.

So, this time around, I think that Cyan is being smart about the whole thing. The volunteer organizations are under close Cyan direction. It's all about having a good group and also about how you manage your volunteers. Andylegate also pointed out that people will also rotate out the FCA panel. It spreads the roles around and gives more people a shot at some leadership roles within the guild.

Yes, I think it's a challenge, but I think it's going to work out.

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Retired forum mod, mszv - played as amarez in Uru
Personal blog - http://www.amarez.com, Personal twitter - http://www.twitter.com/amareze

andylegate wrote:

"Yah! But what about that part about the FCA Panel denying a FCA? That's not Cyan, that's the guild members doing that!"

yes, but only because they (the FCA Panel) will be following the guidelines set forth by Cyan. Period. Not because they have an agenda. Which is why they (the FCA Panel) get's rotated too. So no one, or group of people get used to telling someone Yea or Nay.

As someone who is fanatically suspicious of humans in authoritarian positions, except when it's me, I am pretty impressed by the proposal. Here's a few obvious suggestions, focusing on the part quoted above:

• Make the guidelines public.
• Do not include aspirational terms such as "high quality" or "significant contribution."
• Focus on measurable elements as much as humanly possible - numbers and presence/absence. Getting into "quality" is asking for a world of hurt.
• Make the deliberations of the FCA panel private but require a brief report, made available to the public, for any denial.
• Finally, you might think about some sort of appeal process, although it's hard to see why anyone who received a denial would not immediately appeal, in which case what would be different the second time around.

As I said, I'm impressed, especially by Cyan's new Open Mouth policy.

I am totally impressed as well with the Open Mouth policy. It *IS* necessary for any Cyan employees who are reading this. We need *YOU* to be open, honest, and up front with us, and the Guilds to be the same. Then I see this really working "WELL*

That being said, I truly hope this air of friendly, open communication continues. Please, not the debacle of the Cavern Messengers.

Don't forget that this proposal is only for content intended to be made publicly available for Uru: Complete Chronicles, not Myst Online.

I'm assuming we will get tool information sooner than the game and this way current authors will be able to get up to speed on the real age data without running afoul of Cyan. I figure you'll still be able to make your own stuff in private, you just won't be able to publish it through Uru Library Manager without going through this semi-official to official channel. It sounds fair to me. We'll see how it goes.

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Can you withstand the gaze of the Eye of Eternity?

SCGreyWolf wrote:

Don't forget that this proposal is only for content intended to be made publicly available for Uru: Complete Chronicles, not Myst Online.

That's true, it was originally developed for CC, but that is because at the time we had no idea that MORE was going to happen. However, we developed it in a way that it could easy be applied to MORE/MOUL (a.k.a. content made publicly available via Cyan's servers). So wherever you see CC, assume "MORE" and see if it still makes sense and passes muster. That's what we're thinking of.

Thank you everyone for the great feedback so far! I can't wait to get the ball rolling on MORE!

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Guild of Maintainers Grand Master and Webmystress

In loving memory of James Oliver Rigney, 1948-2007.

Szark,
Thankyou for posting the information.

Zardoz wrote:

• Do not include aspirational terms such as "high quality" or "significant contribution."

The FCA Panel would be looking for things like a Coke machine outside a McDonald's in the Age of Starbucks. The only "quality" things it might look for would be causing CTD, BSOD, freezing, etc. Any additional inspections would be for the sole purpose of improving people's skills in "the Art", not to set some kind of quality standard.

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Frisky Badger
Guild Member
Guild of Maintainers

My opinions are my own and not necessarily those of the Guild of Maintainers.

KI# 02916326

Last edited by Frisky Badger on Fri Jul 04, 2008 12:26 am; edited 1 time in total