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PostPosted: Sat Aug 23, 2008 4:19 am 
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As per topic; this has been bothering me for some time, and I think now is a good time to bring it up since things seem to be moving again. Without going into excruciating details or questioning the good faith and work of the various talented Guild supporters, there's a lot of crufty information and irrelevant stuff easily available, but there are very few simple clear statements of purpose from each of the Guilds, and I don't see any in the stickies of this Forum section.

That, you know, will cause some minor problems getting people onto the Guilds bandwagon. "Join Guild X today!" "We just assume you know what it does!"

The apparently official "The Guilds" placeholder topic doesn't explain what the Guilds are. I understand that the Guilds are fluid and community controlled to some extent, but now that we have pressing needs for some (Maintainers and Writers being the big ones to mind), and given how much play whey will have in MO:RE, statements of purpose for at least those two would be greatly helpful.

How is a person supposed to know where to contribute their area of expertise if they don't know who to go to? I figured out what the Guilds do by reading and reading and reading through all the Forums, and in some cases slogging through pages of topics that weren't necessary.

The fact that you have to join other Forums is unavoidable (given the state of Cyan's infrastructure, i.e. the Forum search index apparently not working), so I won't complain about that.


Last edited by Ed Oscuro on Sat Aug 23, 2008 4:31 am, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Sat Aug 23, 2008 4:29 am 
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And now, I will explain how the major Guilds look according to the disjointed worldview of yours truly:

Involved heavily and unavoidably in OOC (out-of-Cavern) technical areas:
- The Guild of Maintainers: Tests Ages and hunts down bugs.
- The Guild of Writers: The hub of fan Age creation activity. Active in creating and organizing all sorts of new in-game content. Types of game resources needed includes: Visual arts (textures, models, Age planning and creation via 3D tools), sound (music and other sounds), and possibly more.
- The Guild of Messengers: An organization to facilitate information sharing and cooperation between Guilds (?)

Guilds that play more of an IC (in-cavern) role:
- The Guild of Greeters: Provides community intelligence support (i.e., tell people what's going on in-game and provide informal support, including on technical issues)
- The Guild of Cartographers: Creates easily understood traditional flat maps of various areas and Ages for community support and as an aide to the Guild of Writers (a gameplay-centric Guild?).
- The Guild of Archivists: Provides historical information on all aspects of D'ni culture (hopefully organized) and possibly on recent events in-cavern (?)

Apologies for any offenses of misinterpretation or omissions of pertinent fact I may have unintentionally (and likely) committed. :P


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PostPosted: Sat Aug 23, 2008 6:34 am 
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The Guild of Comedy offers something different. :wink:

Our last show.

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Start your weekend off with good friends and lotsa laffs! The fun begins at Euro Friendly Time:
7:00pm (GMT+1) = 11:00am (PDT) = 2:00pm (EDT) = 11:00 KI time

And Then Canada & U.S. Friendly Time:
6:30pm (PDT) = 9:30pm (EDT) = 18:30 KI time


*Want to share some of your own funny material with us? Take the stage after the show for the "Cavern Comics Improv"!

Cya There!! :D


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PostPosted: Sat Aug 23, 2008 1:03 pm 
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Ed Oscuro wrote:
Guilds that play more of an IC (in-cavern) role:
- The Guild of Greeters: Provides community intelligence support (i.e., tell people what's going on in-game and provide informal support, including on technical issues)


Huh? :?: How is this IC? IC means "In Character" as well. The GoG ran a disclaimer message on their imager thoughout MOUL specifically saying they were OOC. The Guild's main focus is helping people with the game, not playing some role in the storyline. Knowing about the storyline is an incidental extra and not all Greeters even keep up with the IC story. A Greeter might be able to explain how to use your KI in excruciating detail and yet have no clue who or when the last DRC VIP visited the Cavern. On the other hand, many Greeters easily switch gears from OOC to IC and are avid followers of or participants in the IC story. But at the end of the day, the GoG is still OOC by definition.

Edit: Has it really been almost 6 months since I last was in the cavern? How memory dims... I changed the statement "specifically saying they were OOC" to italics above because it is wrong. The imager disclaimer did say the the GoG was IC neutral which, or course, allows them to answer questions either way as necessary. I didn't mean to start a debate about it... just wanted to make the point clear.


Last edited by johnsojc on Sun Aug 24, 2008 11:55 am, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Sat Aug 23, 2008 9:28 pm 
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Ed Oscuro wrote:
- The Guild of Writers: The hub of fan Age creation activity. Active in creating and organizing all sorts of new in-game content. Types of game resources needed includes: Visual arts (textures, models, Age planning and creation via 3D tools), sound (music and other sounds), and possibly more.


That sums it up. What more do you need to know?

Anyone can go to the website and find out in more detail what the GOW is all about.

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PostPosted: Sat Aug 23, 2008 11:30 pm 
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johnsojc wrote:
Ed Oscuro wrote:
Guilds that play more of an IC (in-cavern) role:
- The Guild of Greeters: Provides community intelligence support (i.e., tell people what's going on in-game and provide informal support, including on technical issues)


Huh? :?: How is this IC? IC means "In Character" as well. The GoG ran a disclaimer message on their imager thoughout MOUL specifically saying they were OOC. The Guild's main focus is helping people with the game, not playing some role in the storyline. Knowing about the storyline is an incidental extra and not all Greeters even keep up with the IC story. A Greeter might be able to explain how to use your KI in excruciating detail and yet have no clue who or when the last DRC VIP visited the Cavern. On the other hand, many Greeters easily switch gears from OOC to IC and are avid followers of or participants in the IC story. But at the end of the day, the GoG is still OOC by definition.


Edit: Sorry for the OT. I started of just chiming in with the quoted post and...
Yes! I must say tho' that knowing who's who, and when VIP DRCers visited what, is not necessary for staying IC. The way the cavern attracts visiting explorers from the surface it is OK to be very ignorant of past happenings and structures. Jump straight in and be IC with whatever misconceptions or understandings one has. If I do not wan't to play the game IC, I can even use a walkthrough. And once I'm thru' collecting everything, then I can jump from OOC to IC playing a seasoned explorer. But really playing through the ages would take time in the cavern, and reading material in the cavern, socialising as well. And by the time the journeys are done the explorer must have a pretty good idea on most of the past history. Making IC-play come natural, whereras the walkthru approach make IC an effort.

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PostPosted: Sun Aug 24, 2008 12:36 am 
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johnsojc wrote:
Ed Oscuro wrote:
Guilds that play more of an IC (in-cavern) role:
- The Guild of Greeters: Provides community intelligence support (i.e., tell people what's going on in-game and provide informal support, including on technical issues)


Huh? :?: How is this IC? IC means "In Character" as well. The GoG ran a disclaimer message on their imager thoughout MOUL specifically saying they were OOC. The Guild's main focus is helping people with the game, not playing some role in the storyline. Knowing about the storyline is an incidental extra and not all Greeters even keep up with the IC story. A Greeter might be able to explain how to use your KI in excruciating detail and yet have no clue who or when the last DRC VIP visited the Cavern. On the other hand, many Greeters easily switch gears from OOC to IC and are avid followers of or participants in the IC story. But at the end of the day, the GoG is still OOC by definition.


I think it was meant as in, the Guild of Greeters do a lot of things in cavern such as showing people around, whereas the Guild of Writers, for example, mainly builds ages while the game is closed.

Of course, as you said, there are a lot of out of cavern activities that the GoG does as well.

Dovahn

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PostPosted: Sun Aug 24, 2008 2:36 am 
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OK, so Ed was confused by RAWA's decision to steal a set of common acronyms (IC, OOC) and reappropriate them for his own use with new names that are unclear in meaning. He is not the first person, nor will he be the last.

In the context of Uru:
OOC (Out of Cavern) doesn't mean "on the surface." It means treating the cavern as a fictional place.
IC (In Cavern) doesn't mean "within the cavern". It means treating the cavern as a real place.

Explanation and discussion of the terms is here: http://forums.drcsite.org/viewtopic.php?t=292

Now, putting IC/OOC talk aside, it's clear that isn't really what Ed wants to talk about. Let's not let a small misunderstanding distract us from the topic. What Ed wants are, in his own words, "simple clear statements of purpose from each of the Guilds."

This is a good idea. I think it dovetails into working with the moderators to keep the forum clean of old information. Here is what I mean:

Aside from involving the moderators, only the person that posts a message can edit it. As one example, there is a "Guild of Messengers Quick Resource List" stickied in the Guilds section, and Stevecrox (the original poster) isn't even remotely involved in the current GoMe. So, it sits there, sticky, with none of the GoMe people able to do much about it aside from add to the thread. New people sometimes read only the first few messages of a thread and occasionally the last few messages, and will skip the middle. So, not having current information in Message Number One in a topic can be a problem.

One possible approach, if the moderators are able to work with it: Reps from each of the guilds need to ask a moderator to unsticky any old, uneditable information, and then co-ordinate a new beginning with a newly stickied post. Then, the responsibility to keep things updated would fall upon the shoulders of the reps who post those messages. If responsibility changes hands, the mods would need to be asked to intervene again, unsticky thread, start a new one.

At least we can thank Artic_Wagon for keeping the "all-in-one" links post up to date. That's one stickied thread that has been kept fresh! http://www.mystonline.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=14908

Also, Veralun (a forum moderator here), Artic, and others are discussing what we can do make the most important information on this forum bubble to the top, here:
http://www.mystonline.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=16132

I'll see what I can do about the Messengers' stickied thread, if people think that's a good starting point. The other Guilds' threads will need to be addressed by their respective selves.

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PostPosted: Sun Aug 24, 2008 4:25 am 
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re Marten's post above.

wow, that must be the best post I have ever see seen.

This is better and "clearer" than the "Pure Aqua" coming out from the
Cavern's ceiling above the Great Zero. (at the back).

Bravo Marten.


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PostPosted: Sun Aug 24, 2008 5:04 am 
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I was afraid people would be upset by the way I approached this topic, but I wanted to illustrate the few deficiencies in the way information is currently disseminated. Turns out I accomplished that better than I had intended - I wanted the mini-list of Guilds to be more helpful than disinformation. It also turns out my fears were for nothing because of the rightfully legendary community spirit of this place...eh, guess that says something about my usual haunts ;)

Nevermind the IC/OOC thing; I've known right along how the GoG works and I know the difference between IC/OOC - and for some reason had a senior moment and didn't put the two together. But I think I've illustrated how some of these problems start when there isn't a simple place to go to for information :) It's the Telephone Game for the 21st century!

From my experience working on (moderating etc.) Forums I see that Marten's suggestions are all spot-on. One thing I promote are shorter lists and rules posts to make them easier to follow, and in this case having everything up front in a single Guilds thread is the way to go.

Also, I don't know who is "officially" taking care of it at the moment, but I read something about the Guild of Messengers facilitating dialogue between Guilds. Is this actually true, and if so how is it working out? I'm interested to hear.

Finally, a random thought - since Guilds can have acronyms that come the same as another, why not add a second letter? i.e. GoMt for Guild of Maintaners, GoMs for Guild of Messengers. Not so important but at least worth my sentences.

Anyhow, I think my useful role (if there was one) here has probably ended for now; thanks to all for making this a constructive moment :)


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PostPosted: Sun Aug 24, 2008 5:32 am 
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The acronyms being used are
GoMe: Messengers
GoMa: Maintainers

;)

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PostPosted: Sun Aug 24, 2008 5:41 am 
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Ed Oscuro wrote:
......
Finally, a random thought - since Guilds can have acronyms that come the same as another, why not add a second letter? i.e. GoMt for Guild of Maintaners, GoMs for Guild of Messengers. Not so important but at least worth my sentences.

Shorah Ed.

At the bottom of "All in One Post Guild Links, there is a link
to an Abbreviation list where many Guild acronyms can be found...
http://www.mystonline.com/forums/viewto ... 2994#92994
Quote:
GoA-: Guild of Archivists:
GoAs- Guild of Astronomy
GoC- Guild of Cartographers
GoC- Guild of Caterers
GoCo- #1 Guild of Comedy
GoCom- #2 Guild of Comedy
Go FA-: Guild of Fine Artists
GoG- Guild of Greeters
GoH- Guild of Healers
GoI- Guild of Ideas
Goi- Guild of Imaginists
GoM- Guild of Musicians
GoMa- Guild of Maintainers
GoMe- Guild of Messengers
GoW- Guild of Writers

I agree that these next two would need to be "looked at" very closely.

GoC- Guild of Cartographers
GoC- Guild of Caterers


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PostPosted: Sun Aug 24, 2008 10:14 am 
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Hey, AW, I apologize for not having given your thread a close enough look (and I'm not being facetious, it's a good resource, just a little tough to look through right now). I will keep that in mind next time I need to find some info. If it can be compacted a little I will never have another excuse for posting disinformation!

Three cheers!


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PostPosted: Sun Aug 24, 2008 11:44 am 
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Ed Oscuro wrote:
Hey, AW, I apologize for not having given your thread a close enough look (and I'm not being facetious, it's a good resource, just a little tough to look through right now). I will keep that in mind next time I need to find some info. If it can be compacted a little I will never have another excuse for posting disinformation!

Three cheers!

If ever you feel like having some fun, make a poll with your
version and if you are the winner, I will edit mine with a copy
of your list.

What is best for the community is ok with me.

Nano Nano. :wink: :lol:


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PostPosted: Sun Aug 24, 2008 12:08 pm 
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johnsojc wrote:
Ed Oscuro wrote:
Guilds that play more of an IC (in-cavern) role:
- The Guild of Greeters: Provides community intelligence support (i.e., tell people what's going on in-game and provide informal support, including on technical issues)


Huh? :?: How is this IC? IC means "In Character" as well. The GoG ran a disclaimer message on their imager thoughout MOUL specifically saying they were OOC. The Guild's main focus is helping people with the game, not playing some role in the storyline. Knowing about the storyline is an incidental extra and not all Greeters even keep up with the IC story. A Greeter might be able to explain how to use your KI in excruciating detail and yet have no clue who or when the last DRC VIP visited the Cavern. On the other hand, many Greeters easily switch gears from OOC to IC and are avid followers of or participants in the IC story. But at the end of the day, the GoG is still OOC by definition.

Edit: Has it really been almost 6 months since I last was in the cavern? How memory dims... I changed the statement "specifically saying they were OOC" to italics above because it is wrong. The imager disclaimer did say the the GoG was IC neutral which, or course, allows them to answer questions either way as necessary. I didn't mean to start a debate about it... just wanted to make the point clear.


I corrected my earlier post. Perhaps I was having a senior moment as well :) . As many times as I saw that imager message, you'd think I would remember it correctly... ah, well. another bit of Cavern trivia lost in the vault wipe. In any case, you can say the GoG can go either way but, in general, I would classify them as more OOC than IC.


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