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 Post subject: Grasping At Straws?
PostPosted: Sun Dec 14, 2008 7:20 pm 
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I don't mean to rain on anyone's parade, as there seems to be a lot of excitement going about, but lets all be a bit realistic. I am sorry to say I just do not see how going open source with a game this massive is a good and feasible idea.

Now I am not pooing on those who call themselves fans and say "oh we can do or we will make sure etc..." But in the history of open source gaming, if there has ever been one this size (on an mmo type scale) can you recalled when it worked? (please enlighten me to a game comparable that is open source and is not a complete mess and by this I do not mean stuff like second life or little big planet, those are not games and could not be considered open source)

The quality, stability, content, security (I see a lot of problems with that) etc... is now left in the hands on fans which as much as you would like to see this as I good thing I am not sure I can. Yes, I am sure there is scant few truly dedicated fans who will really put work into it but is that enough? If your like me, and I am sure there are many more out there, and you love Cyan's work their story, their ages , their art etc... would this really be an alternative you would want to spend your time with? For me not so much. (and by this I mean no new stuff and the same stuff I have played since the original Uru went online)

I am not saying that I would not at least try and give this version of the game a visit/try however when all is said an done there is not really much left to go back for. It is for me the rock bottom last train stop of the Myst Online idea. One last, and seem desperate attempt, to keep the idea afloat in some fashion. Then you ask is that in itself a reason and a good idea? Are some things just better left a good memory?


For me this seems to be the real end of what was a great idea that just never really found its way. It was sad when it ended but I think it even sadder now that its open source..


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PostPosted: Sun Dec 14, 2008 7:32 pm 
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I don't think you're the only one that feels that way, but it does look as though the Inter-Guild shard's mission statement is to preserve and build on what has gone before - to be true to canon, etc.


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PostPosted: Sun Dec 14, 2008 7:32 pm 
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Oh you're not the only one with doubts, ryg... we all have to wait and see, but I shall try not to cry before the milk is spilled really. I'm sure you read that Cyan is frightened as well, so no one can tell for sure what is going to happen. I don't think everybody is as excited as you say, but I guess for now a lot of people are trying to make the best of a new situation. And no, I'm not speaking for everybody here, just for myself, I'm just guessing :)

Of course I would have liked to see different, but we can't have it, and to me this is the second best thing next to shutting it down altogether. I'm sure some here would have preferred to see that even. I don't think for one minute your concerns are unfounded!

Edit to add: and I absolutely agree that this IS "rock bottom last train stop of the Myst Online idea", no one can deny that, least of all Cyan. I'm sure they would have liked to see it work out differently as well.


Last edited by Sophia on Sun Dec 14, 2008 7:38 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Sun Dec 14, 2008 7:36 pm 
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Nope, i can't think of a game that big that is open source. However, linux is not a game, but fits the category "big". True, there are more people working on linux, but an os an kind of an harder job.

I've seen what the fans where able of with Until, think of what the same people can do with open source. It's true there are risks of screwing up, but the possibilities if we don't mess up are enormous. I'm more enthusiast now that i was for more.

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PostPosted: Sun Dec 14, 2008 7:43 pm 
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I agree, Sophia. I think that the shards will maintain Uru if theyre started up and even if there are alterations to the storyline on the individual shards, the theme of Uru and D'ni will remain the same - for this is what the purpose of using the code is for people - to keep Uru alive online. Of course we won't have any enforcement if people abuse it but I don't think Cyan would give out the code so freely if they didn't trust us. ;)

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PostPosted: Sun Dec 14, 2008 8:02 pm 
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Yeah, Cyan trusted us to do someting that haven't been done before.

No pressure hey !

** sarcastic evil laugh **

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PostPosted: Sun Dec 14, 2008 8:02 pm 
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Its never been done successfully before, thats not to say it can not be done successfully. If we find out why it did not work and learn from it. Is it not easer to learn from the mistakes of others then to learn from the ones you make yourself? If we are truly a real community we can work together to make it work. Cyan has given us the Myst Series and a community has developed around it, now they are trusting the community with what I believe was a brain child of theirs, and its up to us, its do or die, the burden is ours to bear, if we distribute the wight of the burden among the entire community the burden will not be so great, and we can carry it to the next step and prove their trust was not misplaced.

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PostPosted: Sun Dec 14, 2008 9:03 pm 
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I am actually quite excited by the new possibilities. No doubt there is big risk that it might fail. But what is the alternative? There are so many fans who are prepared to devote their talent and time to this project. One thing that Uru has going for it is the genuine love that people have for this game and for Cyan. That could make the difference in this being successful.

And we are continuing a legacy of breaking new ground... and being successful. That is what the original Myst was: groundbreaking and hugely successful.

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PostPosted: Sun Dec 14, 2008 9:35 pm 
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Of course there is always a possibility for failure. Perhaps this won't work, but I still believe we should try. I don't have to point out all the things which "hadn't been done on this scale and succeeded" until the point at which someone came along and made it work brilliantly (Myst on CDs for one thing). For me, even if Uru horribly fails in this open source project, it won't matter. I have good memories of this community and times spent exploring. No failure can push those from my mind. I think the possibility for Uru to endure is greater than the potential for failure. Greater still as there may be a few different shards n which explorers of varying ideologies may have their own brand of fun instead of a single shard. Members of this community have proven time and again their talent and ability in the name of this great experiment. I do not expect that quality to falter.

I see no greater alternative either. We can wait for an unlikely return from Cyan for what? Another rebirth of a game with a poor track record? We can say goodbye to our dreams forever by ending Uru. Neither of those are particularly original ideas. Neither is open source, mind you, but it is at least more up-to-date than trying to keep doing an MMO over and over. I have great confidence we will at least try something, we will at least see what we are made of in the end. The only chances we lose are the ones we never take.

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PostPosted: Sun Dec 14, 2008 9:57 pm 
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Doubts are part of growing and making things happen. (I'll bet the astronaut who who did the first space shot had some doubts hit him as the first rockets cut in underneath him during lift-off that first time - there were no brakes on it after all.) However, I'm put in mind of something that Rand said in an interview back in the early days after MOUL launched (and I paraphrase here), namely that he wasn't afraid to fail, it was not being allowed to try that was a problem.

Another point: Uru doesn't work by the conventional business model. Ordinary business thinking and the game aren't really very compatible. So what does that leave Cyan, Uru and us? Having to create something new - and we can. I say that as someone who has successfully co-owned two small businesses in his lifetime, neither terribly conventional. Both succeeded well enough to keep us fed and bills paid, so we must have done a few things right. You do get doubts when you launch something new though. It isn't until you start getting some measurable results that you really relax to the whole idea though, so I understand very well and can empathize with the feelings expressed in this thread.

It will be a tad nervous-making at times. I don't blame anybody for having a doubt or two. (Heck, I'd be much more worried if I didn't see some caution to temper the optimism. Overconfidence can be quite destructive.) Folks who approach a project of this magnitude or any really new undertaking (which this certainly is) always have some sobering thoughts along the way. I've seen it myself and with others before and I expect to see it happen again. We are in the driver's seat and it can be a little scary behind the steering wheel for the first time - especially when you have taken an on-ramp to a packed eight-lane highway the way we have. Talking about it is absolutely the best thing you can do too - drops the stress and gives you the chance to think of how to make things work.

I honestly think we should try our absolute best to make Uru what we've always hoped for. We may not succeed, but there is no shame in that if we give it our real 100% best. If we fail, we know where the responsibility lies. Ah, but if we succeed - that's what makes it worth it. And we all learn a lot of valuable things as we go. Just the learning process, the interaction with the rest of the fans - our friends and fellow travelers, that makes it worth it right there. I have a lot of faith in the talents and abilities of Uru fans - they are a unique, talented, dedicated and creative bunch. Best of all - they think and that is what gives us, collectively, our greatest strength.

With that in mind, try this thought on for size: Even a turtle has to stick his neck out to get ahead. Looks like we'll have to emulate that.

:)

Respectfully...

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PostPosted: Sun Dec 14, 2008 10:44 pm 
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I think that at the least, we will get a version of MOUL almost exactly like what was on gametap. After all, I think if Cyan is running the official server, then they will have a say as to what they will put up on it. This is cool. We will still have a decent, stable, polite community to fall back on - and also the option of seeing other cool ages brought in by others with Cyan's permission. On the other hand, there will be the "wild wild west' ages as well, being put up on other private servers elewhere on Earth. No holds barred. But, they will not be acessable from within the game proper, and might be private, invite only ages, which is also cool. I can choose to visit the crazy insane ones in their gibbering looney ages just to see pepto-bismal skies and LSD - like vistas, or not. It's totally up to me. This is the most cool thing of all. Personally, I can't wait to see what people using the now free Truespace 7.6 will come up with once an engine for that ploatform gets created. It seems to me that Uru and a program like Truespace were made for each other...


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PostPosted: Mon Dec 15, 2008 12:55 am 
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I’m not saying you’re wrong, but I will say that Cyan is still, way ahead of its game. Open source is a last-ditch effort, but it is an innovative one. As for comparing it to “other open-source MMOGs”—um, well, there’s nothing like it, is there?

Or am I wrong now?!?


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PostPosted: Mon Dec 15, 2008 1:47 am 
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I am curious, how do you do authentication for multiple shards? How do you prevent player names from being hijacked? Will authentication for all shards of the open source MORE or MOUL be in only one place?


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PostPosted: Mon Dec 15, 2008 2:06 am 
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jek wrote:
I am curious, how do you do authentication for multiple shards? How do you prevent player names from being hijacked? Will authentication for all shards of the open source MORE or MOUL be in only one place?

One place per shard. It'll be up to the shard admins to crack down on abuse.

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 Post subject: Re: Grasping At Straws?
PostPosted: Mon Dec 15, 2008 2:47 am 
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rygynjupiter wrote:
I don't mean to rain on anyone's parade, as there seems to be a lot of excitement going about, but lets all be a bit realistic. I am sorry to say I just do not see how going open source with a game this massive is a good and feasible idea.

Now I am not pooing on those who call themselves fans and say "oh we can do or we will make sure etc..." But in the history of open source gaming, if there has ever been one this size (on an mmo type scale) can you recalled when it worked? (please enlighten me to a game comparable that is open source and is not a complete mess and by this I do not mean stuff like second life or little big planet, those are not games and could not be considered open source)

The quality, stability, content, security (I see a lot of problems with that) etc... is now left in the hands on fans which as much as you would like to see this as I good thing I am not sure I can. Yes, I am sure there is scant few truly dedicated fans who will really put work into it but is that enough? If your like me, and I am sure there are many more out there, and you love Cyan's work their story, their ages , their art etc... would this really be an alternative you would want to spend your time with? For me not so much. (and by this I mean no new stuff and the same stuff I have played since the original Uru went online)

I am not saying that I would not at least try and give this version of the game a visit/try however when all is said an done there is not really much left to go back for. It is for me the rock bottom last train stop of the Myst Online idea. One last, and seem desperate attempt, to keep the idea afloat in some fashion. Then you ask is that in itself a reason and a good idea? Are some things just better left a good memory?


For me this seems to be the real end of what was a great idea that just never really found its way. It was sad when it ended but I think it even sadder now that its open source..


I know you think your being realistic, but your actually being pessimistic.

As a realist, I know this is Cyan's last ditch effort to keep Uru going, but I do not share your jaded view that not much is going to happen with Uru when it is open sourced. I believe that whatever happens, happens.

I know of at least a couple dozen people with a lot of skill who are going to work on Open Source Uru as soon as it is released. Perhaps that keeps me thinking more positively? Who knows.

So in the end, your not wrong, but your not exactly right either. Unless you can see the future, I would try to keep a positive outlook. If things take a turn for the worst at least Cyan made an effort to save what little of Uru was left for them to give.

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