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 Post subject: Fan Created Ages
PostPosted: Sat Jun 05, 2010 10:27 pm 
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How does a fan create an age?

Mod note:
Made this thread sticky.
Thanks for the valuable content you all gave in this constructive discussion.


Last edited by PeteC on Sun Jun 05, 2011 3:48 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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PostPosted: Sat Jun 05, 2010 10:56 pm 
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This cannot be discussed here, however, please visit: http://forum.guildofwriters.com/ for all your Age Creation Goodness.

@The Mods: Can we please get this thread stickied?


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PostPosted: Sat Jun 05, 2010 11:27 pm 
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Thanks.


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PostPosted: Sun Jun 06, 2010 1:28 pm 
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Just above this thread are helpful stickied links. Such as

http://mystonline.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=15890

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PostPosted: Sun Jun 06, 2010 3:43 pm 
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And seeing as that link does not address the question at all, that is irrelevant. and seeing as this question is being asked over and over, it is high time it got stickied.

EDIT: I am aware there are all these lovely stickies, Romer, but none of them address the question at hand, /especially/ the one you linked to.


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PostPosted: Sun Jun 06, 2010 3:50 pm 
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Yeah, that link is useless. It tells Cyan's criteria for content, not where discussion of creating that content can be found. We need this topic stickied (perhaps also in the Fan Ages part of this forum).

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PostPosted: Sun Jun 06, 2010 3:51 pm 
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Oh, nonsense, "it can't be discussed here". *

PeteC, unless you want an Age composed only of primary geometric forms, you'll need to use some flavor of modeling and texturing software...there are many many options available, depending on how far you want to take your involvement and how much you can afford.

Currently, most age creators have been using Blender, partly because it's a free, open-source program and partly because there have been translation tools created over many years to enable shapes, textures, lighting and animation created in Blender to be exported to the format required by URU's Plasma engine. Most of the people using this method congregate at guildofwriters.com.

But many Agewriters have preferred other means of modeling, and have used every 3D computer graphics (CG) software available at one time or another. They've found various means of exporting their creations from their chosen software into Blender, and then to URU.

Now, with Cyan's release of their own 3D Studio Max 7 plug-in tools - the same they used in creating URU - another set of options is opening. Some agebuilders are learning these tools rapidly and creating tutorials of their own, to teach others these methods. (1) , (2)

Of course, finding a legally-purchased copy of Max 7 is difficult these days, I believe no one has found a means to purchase this version from 2004. Even second-hand sales of this package are not always cheap, though over time you're likely to find better prices than this Ebay offering. If you decide to use other means to create your content, there may be Max users in the community that can work with you to translate your data into Max and then out to URU via the plug-in.

Eventually, when Cyan releases the code for these plug-in tools, we'll likely see plug-ins written/adapted for more and more 3D graphics applications.
So, the options are expanding, and over time I hope we'll have more and more tools available. If you're serious about getting into 3D modeling, I think your first step should be to look at any of the available software options; all of them have trial versions you can download to get a feel for what is comfortable for your needs.

Then try creating something simple, and see what it takes to get that creation into URU via either the Blender / PyPRP plug-in route or the Max7 / Cyan plug-in route.

Good luck, Pete - please report back on your progress and findings!

*Mod note: Edited - 6/7/10 - see Forum Policy # III


Last edited by Emor D'ni Lap on Sun Jun 06, 2010 11:31 pm, edited 3 times in total.

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PostPosted: Sun Jun 06, 2010 3:55 pm 
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and the 3dsmax7 exported ages are useless to anyone without Drizzle. See? There I said it. You need to use DRIZZLE, to make Cyan's exporter work. And why is this? Because *no one* can test *anything* without it. And more than that? I can't discuss here, go to http://forum.guildofwriters.com/ for all your age discussion goodness. =)

EDIT: perhaps it should be noted: if you can't test anything - good luck making an Age.


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PostPosted: Sun Jun 06, 2010 4:18 pm 
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kaelisebonrai wrote:
and the 3dsmax7 exported ages are useless to anyone without Drizzle.

Deciding on an appropriate 3D creation app and learning to build what you want to see is far more important than running around in it. Doing these things carefully, with thought, takes some time.
Because the route you mention happens to be the only one available at this moment does not mean that's a permanent situation.
I would suggest that by the time PeteC has something he's ready to work with, there will be many options open to him.


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PostPosted: Sun Jun 06, 2010 4:57 pm 
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Emor D'ni Lap wrote:
kaelisebonrai wrote:
and the 3dsmax7 exported ages are useless to anyone without Drizzle.

Deciding on an appropriate 3D creation app and learning to build what you want to see is far more important than running around in it. Doing these things carefully, with thought, takes some time.
Because the route you mention happens to be the only one available at this moment does not mean that's a permanent situation.
I would suggest that by the time PeteC has something he's ready to work with, there will be many options open to him.

You missing the point so much that it backfires to You :P

The question was:
Quote:
How does a fan create an age?

Anyone asking this question wants to know the whole process of creating an playable Age, not just "modeling" part.
And by "whole" i mean: concept/planing, modeling, exporting, testing/playing in it.

P.S.
Quote:
Deciding on an appropriate 3D creation app and learning to build what you want to see is far more important than running around in it. Doing these things carefully, with thought, takes some time.

(In context of creation content for a game) I will laid it down for you this in the simplest way:
"learning to build " in "appropriate 3D" = using "appropriate 3D" = testing your creation

Quote:
I would suggest that by the time PeteC has something he's ready to work with, there will be many options open to him.

My first Age was a plain + linking point. I think PeteC will be able to do such thing in quite small amount of time :P

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PostPosted: Sun Jun 06, 2010 4:59 pm 
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Clearly, Emor D'ni Lap - you have never built an age, in your entire life. Because that statement proves it. Because you *need* to test it as you're building it. END OF STORY.

If you cannot test your Age, you CANNOT build it. =)


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PostPosted: Sun Jun 06, 2010 5:19 pm 
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Emor D'ni Lap wrote:
Deciding on an appropriate 3D creation app and learning to build what you want to see is far more important than running around in it.


Are you serious? Sounds a lot like composing a complex piece of music without the ability to hear an actual orchestra or band perform it.

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PostPosted: Sun Jun 06, 2010 6:07 pm 
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chucker wrote:
Sounds a lot like composing a complex piece of music without the ability to hear an actual orchestra or band perform it.


Beethoven did it :lol:

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PostPosted: Sun Jun 06, 2010 6:18 pm 
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Mucol wrote:
chucker wrote:
Sounds a lot like composing a complex piece of music without the ability to hear an actual orchestra or band perform it.


Beethoven did it :lol:


You're actually the second to point that out to me. ;)

But he started composing long before becoming deaf, and even once he was, he could still see pieces being performed, and see the reaction of the audience: the excitement, and the criticism. With Cyan's sort-of-but-not-quite-yet SDK, there is no audience; no reaction.

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PostPosted: Sun Jun 06, 2010 9:55 pm 
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Emor D'ni Lap wrote:
kaelisebonrai wrote:
and the 3dsmax7 exported ages are useless to anyone without Drizzle.

Deciding on an appropriate 3D creation app and learning to build what you want to see is far more important than running around in it. Doing these things carefully, with thought, takes some time.
Because the route you mention happens to be the only one available at this moment does not mean that's a permanent situation.
I would suggest that by the time PeteC has something he's ready to work with, there will be many options open to him.


Actually, I would have to disagree with this.

IF you want to simply learn how to 3D model, then sure, this will work.
IF you want to simply learn how to apply textures, make blended textures and apply them to those models, then yah, what you say will work.

IF what you want to do is create a 3D virtual world that can be used by Cyan's Plasma game engine.....then this is not a good idea.

There is no denying that, yes, when Cyan releases their plugin tools actual source code, then yes, there more than likely will be plugin's made for many different 3D modeling software.
However, if you'd like to learn NOW, then you have 2 options: Blender or 3DS Max 7.0.

If you do not want to use either of those....then you're going to have to wait......and more than likely you will be waiting for a very long time. There is no set time schedule for when Cyan will release their source code for the plugin. The very next thing in the pipeline to be released will be a Test Server.
That means those of us that have Max and Cyan's plugin will be ready. Those that are using Blender will also be ready for reasons I can't discuss here.

I can say that it is possible to build things with other 3D modeling software....and then you can import them into Blender or Max. The plugin that is used for either is what is used to "wire" what you have made so that the Plasma game engine will know what to do with it.

However, there are a couple of other things to keep in mind (and why I REALLY do not recommend you decided how to make Ages by deciding what 3D software you want to use).
The way Materials and Textures are used in both Blender and Max, are not always how you will be able to "paint" your world.
There are many, many, many features that are used by both Blender and Max that the Plasma game engine does not support, and when you export, will be ignored and not used.
Cyan's plugin for Max has it's own very specific Materials that are use with the Game Engine.

This is not going to change with the plugin source code being released. It will only change if the MOUL:a game engine source code is released.

So yes, you can wait, and shop around for your favorite 3D software.....but you will be waiting quite a while before you can even test something.

If you want to learn how to do things NOW, and test things NOW, I highly recommend that you download and learn how to use Blender. It's free, there are tons of tutorials on how to use it. Tons of tutorials on how to make Ages with it, and will more than likely be the way most people end up creating Ages for quite a long time to come.

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