It is currently Sat Sep 23, 2017 9:44 pm

All times are UTC




Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 150 posts ]  Go to page 1, 2, 3, 4, 5 ... 10  Next
Author Message
PostPosted: Fri Mar 12, 2010 8:33 pm 
Offline

Joined: Tue May 09, 2006 1:19 am
Posts: 1300
I've been reading lots of threads which are interesting. But a few have stuck with me. The "newbie" questions of 'why can't I see my buddy?" or "how do I do this?" The answers are well-intentioned and helpful but I think the audience is sadly lost. They've already given up on the game. A vast majority of people are used to the WoW experience. Which is you pick a server with a friend, log on and make a character and you're there, in the same place, and can communicate. The simple ease of saying to a friend, "I'll meet you online in Uru" isn't there. There's the hood choice, then the KI retrieval, and then the navigation of the Nexus to finally, the Ferry Terminal, where you can communicate with your buddy. All of these decisions may seem easy in retrospect but consider a newbie who doesn't know what a linking book is. They get to the Relto island and go "okay here by myself - what do I do?" It's not an easy thing to learn all the above steps. That's where the ease of learning the game fails. It's not simple. That's where the game of Myst shone. You sat there, with an arm and clicked. There was no pressure of trying to meet somebody, somewhere.

I've been involved with Wow the last few years, and have found it hard to come back to Uru. The controls are hard to relearn, once again. But it's coming back slowly. I need to find some friends to do some of the core Ages with. To me, that was the fun of Uru of past times. The sharing of completing the puzzles. Not to mention the failing memory I have to how to do things. For instance I forgot to get the KI first thing and couldn't understand why the Nexus didn't work. It was only when I took the time to read the classroom posters that it clicked. And finding the different linking books to Ages. It's fun to rediscover it all.

My KI is 684876 - please add me and say hi/Shorah.


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Mar 12, 2010 8:57 pm 
Offline

Joined: Thu Nov 09, 2006 1:14 pm
Posts: 2598
Location: Israel
I think that trying to make the game anymore easy IC would be wrong, because it's a Myst spinoff, and it should give the challenge of understanding stuff. That's why I think players should start alone at the cleft, because it's challenging and fits with the story.

There should be some sort of OOC (maybe with an IC cover) system to let the player quickly meet with each other. Share their singleplayer game with friends and make it a group adventure. That's how I see Uru- it better fits as a realtime evolving singleplayer with the option of sharing with other players (where the story is more closely tied to the gameplay, and the easiness of sharing is OOC), than a complete MMO (where it's mostly the other way around, as far as I've seen).

_________________
Previously known as "The stranger"


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Mar 12, 2010 8:57 pm 
Offline

Joined: Wed Dec 13, 2006 5:11 pm
Posts: 700
Location: Cincinnati, Ohio
i think that some people come to moul from wow expecting it to be wow, and don't stay around because it's not. not everybody is going to like moul because it IS so different. i guess i'm the opposite. i can't stand wow for too many reasons to list here, but i spent some time on guild wars, which is pretty similar. i found it fun at first, but after awhile the endless cycle of grind/level up/get gold/buy stuff/ repeat ad nauseum got really boring and tedious. personally i'd rather hang out in the cavern even in it's presently static state than grind in most mmos. again, i'm pretty much the opposite of most mmo fans. i actually like that uru has always started off with being a single player, and part of the fun was trying to figure out what to do to hook up with others. i guess some people dont want to think that much, but as we well know anygiven cyan game as been about puzzles and using your brain. anyway, as i said, moul is just not going to appeal to some people and i'm ok with that.


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Mar 12, 2010 9:06 pm 
Offline

Joined: Tue May 09, 2006 1:19 am
Posts: 1300
Yeah, the learning curve is steep. I see your point about the endless grinding of xp, gold, and quests are mind-numbingly boring too :roll: :wink: It's fun being back to a thinking game


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Mar 12, 2010 9:43 pm 
Offline

Joined: Fri Mar 12, 2010 2:12 pm
Posts: 1
When Uru first came out and was online, I tried it but found it to have too much lag! The lag was so bad I could not move my Avatar. I saw Avatars that were inactive - just standing there with no one online controlling them! I sure they did this to get back into the game when they wished. Of course it made it so others had issues.That is why I stopped playing online. No other online game has been so bad. I have been thinking of coming back, but I see from other posts that lag is still and issue. :!: So no thanks.

I am going to do as Atrus says and not Retore D'Ni. Also, I going to do Yeesha says and not try and make a living tree from a dead one. Uru Complete Chronicles is great and the story continues in End of Ages.


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Mar 12, 2010 9:51 pm 
Offline

Joined: Wed Dec 13, 2006 5:11 pm
Posts: 700
Location: Cincinnati, Ohio
if you're talking about the way the lag was in prologue, then you have nothing to fear from any amount of lag (which is usually very slight if at all these days). for the most part mo:ul runs pretty darn well. it's free, why would you not give it another chance? not to mention there are ages that are not in cc or m5.


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Mar 12, 2010 10:39 pm 
Offline

Joined: Thu May 11, 2006 5:22 pm
Posts: 1801
Location: California
ToriaURU, I agree with your thinking. (and welcome back) Over on OpenUru.org many of the problems of how to play in Uru and get started are being considered. There are some real barriers to getting new players into MOULagain. One does practically have to write them a manual so friends can meet up.

I wrote a big post on GoMa forum for Uru fans wanting to check out Second Life. I thought SL had/has this ‘Meet Up’ problem. It’s not hard to meet people; it is hard to find your friends and groups. So, the big post. (SL Visitors Help Document for Myst Uru explorers) I thought SL was bad in this regard. Your pointing this problem out in MOULagain somewhat surprised me. I agree it’s there.

Changing how we start the game does not have to change the nature of the game. That is much of the consideration in the discussion on OpenUru.org. Having a small town outside the Cleft with a road leading to the gate in the fence has been put forth. The idea is everyone would start there and have the choice to go to group play or solo play. Choosing group play would mean you would quickly find a box of KI's and possibly a Rel.to book, or not. It would be an excellent place to meet up with friends. It avoids some technical problems and considers the problem of what Cyan may or may not allow us to change in their IP.

Games like Wow, GW, and SL were starting at about the time of Myst ABM, Prologue. They have been learning what works for people over the years. Prologue/MOUL was written in the early days of MMOG history. Much of what we know now was not known then. I see no reason not to take advantage of what we have learned over the years and from other worlds.

I find so many limits in MOULagain that I don’t have in other worlds. Others are talking about fixing many of those, chat and the KI are big issues for many. How we start the game is important to others. Our challenge is how to add good features from WoW, GW, SL, or wherever and keep the feel of Uru. I have yet to hear of anyone that wants the free form chaos of SL brought to MOUL. But SL has great hair and shoes...

Many of us are experimenting in other virtual worlds with Myst Style builds to see what works. Once open source is out, I expect to see some of what we have learned appearing in fan shards. Then we will find out works best. I expect the meet up problem to get handled then.

_________________
Nalates - GoC - 418 - MOULa I: Nal KI#00 083 543, MOULa II: KI#00 583 875Nalates 111451 - Second Life: Nalates Urriah
Guild of Cartographers Image


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Mar 12, 2010 10:57 pm 
Offline

Joined: Sat Oct 13, 2007 12:32 am
Posts: 69
Location: Ohio
Why people leave is a hard question, which I presume many of us are of two minds about, at least I am.

On the one hand as Firesign put it "moul is just not going to appeal to some people and i'm ok with that." it's okay if people leave who are not a good fit for the type of game that MOUL is.

On the other hand though, many of the newbie threads have said things like "Me and my friend/cousin/daughter wanted to play this together and couldn't figure out how so we are giving up." Well that is sad. We don't want to weed those people out.

I am not offering any solutions, just a reminder that we need to hold these things in tension. Yes there are some who try out Uru and it is not a match for their personality and gaming style. It's okay that they leave. There are others though who hit the steep initial learning curve (including how to find and use the Guild of Greeters in or out of game) and give up. It is not okay that these people are leaving IMHO.[/quote]

_________________
Guild of Archivists

MOULa KI: 00214606


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Mar 12, 2010 11:01 pm 
Offline
Obduction Backer

Joined: Wed May 10, 2006 5:28 am
Posts: 2266
You really can't compare Uru to Myst. Myst was a solo player game and it came out in the days when games were very expensive. It made for a different playing experience. Given less choices, the fact that you already bought it, and it was so darn beautiful, and the interface was easy -- gave you some motivation to stick around.

Uru is a game you can play alone, but you can also play it with people. That's the idea. The goodness is that we are all (for now at least) on one server, which is great. You can meet up with anyone, theoretically. The not good part is that, if you don't know how it works, it's darn difficult to get to the point where you can meet the people you want to meet, in game. And that KI! Sigh. Figuring out the mystery of the world (who are the D'ni, how do you solve the Kadish puzzles?) -- that's a good sort of puzzling thing, that's where Uru shines. Having to go through all kinds of machinations to figure out how to meet up with your friends -- not good. And just getting into a neighborhood with your friends (that problem of them not being all listed, you know) -- not easy. FIghting with the interface is not supposed to be a puzzle. It's sink or swim too -- no support types (Resident Engineers they were calls, right - ResEngs) at Cyan to help you along. Unless you meet a friendly person, you are on your own, and not much in the way of in game help.

In this case I don't think we can fault current day Uru -- this is an artifact from the 2003 release. Cyan never got a chance to change it and make it better. It's an old game. I realize that this architecture is their baby, but it would be nice to think that during open source time we could get some changes made so that people could find each other, and also get into a neighborhood they want to be in.

_________________
mszv, amarez in Uru, other online games, never use mszv anymore, would like to change it
Blog - http://www.amarez.com, Twitter - http://www.twitter.com/amareze


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Mar 12, 2010 11:05 pm 
Offline

Joined: Thu Mar 11, 2010 5:25 pm
Posts: 158
Location: Aberystwyth, Wales
I've not given up yet!

Sure, it was somewhat odd for the first hour of gameplay. It seems quite disjointed. But I've got everything working and I'm slowly working my way through this game's content. :)


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Mar 12, 2010 11:24 pm 
Offline

Joined: Mon Aug 20, 2007 5:01 am
Posts: 213
Location: 4mile dwn1200milesENE 1mile up
One thing that might help the new people (dislike newbie) is to find a way they can immediatly talk to someone so as not to feel alone and be able to get some guidance. Such as "Go get your KI". Relto is the first place you go so if they could talk to say a Greeter would be very nice for them. What about when login occurrs go right to GOG, could that be a plus??

_________________
DaVinci
no I haven't completed the Code
Shorah and be well
KI 00142411


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Mar 13, 2010 12:42 am 
Offline
Obduction Backer

Joined: Thu Nov 09, 2006 1:19 am
Posts: 260
Location: Michigan, USA
You raise some very good points ToriaURU that are all too true.

It's easy for us old adventure game players to dismiss the complaints of these new players and to simply say "If you want a social website, then go to a social website!" or "If you like WoW so much, then why don't you go there!".

The truth is that it is these very same new players to MOUL that will keep it going into the future. Now we don't want to turn MOULa into a social website or WoW, but we also need to give them some aspects that they are familiar with and make it easier for them to get started with their adventures in this game that we all love.

Unfortunately, without Cyan's input, help and approval, there is not much we can do to correct this problem at the present.

My suggestion for a solution to this problem would be for one of the programming fans of MOUL to develop an intro which is placed and viewed before you materialize on your Relto for the first time after registering. The key information from this intro would also be found on your "Incoming" messages once you do get your KI, just as a reminder.

Maybe a cutscene with Zandi talking to you and going through the motions of what you need to do would be good. He might walk you through two options; 1) To get your KI and then how to get to the City and link up with your friends and 2) the other option showing you how to get started with your URU adventures ("See you on the surface!" would be his closing statement after presenting this last option.)

_________________
It only takes one!


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Mar 13, 2010 1:00 am 
Offline

Joined: Thu Mar 11, 2010 5:25 pm
Posts: 158
Location: Aberystwyth, Wales
Right, here's how I would have liked to have been introduced to Uru.

- Start off at the Cleft. None of this Relto nonsense.
- Do the Cleft.
- Go to Relto
- Explore, find letter on the bookshelf. Letter summarises your options.
1) Carry on on your Journey
2) Get your Ki (explains what it is)
Book linking directly to the place where you get your Ki is already in the bookshelf.
In the same room as the Ki vendor, there's a book detailing the interface of it. It also tells you how to share your Relto book.

Needs to be made clear where the best places to start socializing are - GoG Bevin (who are awesome, awesome people) is probably your first port of call.

This would have been a lot better for my first hour or so in game.


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Mar 13, 2010 1:24 am 
Offline
Obduction Backer

Joined: Mon May 15, 2006 10:02 pm
Posts: 2266
Location: Tigard, OR
The original implementation of Uru planned for the ability to generate buddy invitations. As an existing player, you'd create a buddy invite, and give it to your friend. Your buddy, a new player signing up, would enter the code while creating his avatar, and that avatar would be made a member of the same neighborhood as yourself.

So, part of the problem was already thought through... but the buddy invites idea went away during the GameTap era.

_________________
MOULa KI: 26838 | Prologue Videos | Visit rel.to to explore Myst, Uru, and D'ni communities!
Click here for social/game profiles


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Mar 13, 2010 1:45 am 
Offline

Joined: Tue May 09, 2006 1:19 am
Posts: 1300
Oh yes Marten I recall that, the buddy system. It made it easier as I recall now.

I am enjoying reading each reply as they come in. Thanks everyone for your input. It never hurts to point out the obvious I feel :lol:


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 150 posts ]  Go to page 1, 2, 3, 4, 5 ... 10  Next

All times are UTC


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: SEMrush [Bot] and 0 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum

Search for:
Jump to: