What Latharion said.

The meal (to employ a metaphor) will be ready when it's ready. There's only room for Cyan in the kitchen. People getting in the way, whether trying to help or just poking about, opening the oven door to see how it's doing, will only slow things down. It's going to be done right, and will take as long as it takes.

If you can't wait, go get a take away or something, your loss.

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Zander

MOULagain KI 1090046

"What you still don't understand I have either forgotten to tell you or don't know myself."

denDwaler wrote:

No,
if Cyan really has the intention to open source it, this is a non issue.
It will not be longer hosted by them and it will not be longer their problem.

I don't really think it has to be an either/or situation: even after fully open-sourcing URU, nothing prevents Cyan from continuing to host their present server.
In fact (though I'm unwilling to hunt it down), I'm pretty sure Cyan has made some comment to the effect that they intend to do just that after open-sourcing has occurred.

What Latharion said is his/her assumption. That's why Cyan should make a post about it. Otherwise we have a group of people making it sound like they know why Cyan is or isn't doing something. In reality, they're just guessing.

Emor: Cyan was talking about a file server, but with the MOULa shard, it seems they may also mean a game server.

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-Whilyam

If someone does manage to hack into the server and shorts out the door to the vault, then yes, it's going to take resources and time away from the open source project. Even worse, it's going to make me cranky because I won't be able to finish the marker missions.
Saves us all a lot of stress if nobody hacks. End of story.

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KayT- 00261852 (previously KT, gametap edition)
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E.G.O.- 02129796
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I VISITED AHNONAY AND ALL I GOT WAS THIS LOUSY TREE SHIRT

Whilyam wrote:

What Latharion said is his/her assumption. That's why Cyan should make a post about it. Otherwise we have a group of people making it sound like they know why Cyan is or isn't doing something. In reality, they're just guessing.

Emor: Cyan was talking about a file server, but with the MOULa shard, it seems they may also mean a game server.

Whilyam, I get it that you want to have full control of the Plasma engine. I also get that you are impatient with Cyan's "seeming lack of forward momentum" with regard to the "open source project". Your enthusiasm, no matter how great it is, still does not change the fact that Cyan Owns the Property In Question and May Do With It Whatever They Wish Until Such Time As It Transfers Ownership to Another Entity. Basically, legally speaking, we have no leg to stand on. We can cry, mope, crack, hack, wail, moan, or whatever we want to do to express our displeasure concerning this fact, but it will NOT change a thing. I will state once more and in bold even...

We are extremely fortunate that Cyan has not yet seen fit to seek legal action against anyone involved with the cracking of their servers! It is absolutely within their legal right to do so, and they may still if they desire to.

This is not an opinion. This is a fact.

My conjecture regarding the reason why Cyan did not seek the help of users was just that, an educated guess. Until Cyan posts an official response, it will always be conjecture. But it doesn't discount it as a very real possibility (probably the simplist answer).

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Latharion

KI: 03390194

I don't want control of the Plasma engine (I have no idea how to use it, etc.). I do want to either see some of the talented people (like Paradox and Hoikas, but also others who do just as much if not more work behind the scenes) in this community allowed to help Cyan, or at least get a truthful explanation as to why it's impossible now/ever. It seems elementary to me in terms of business. People want to help. You either let them help or you tell them why they can't.

Also I'm not, in truth, impatient with the open source thing. I just know it could be handled better so that Cyan would have to do far less work AND (as a fringe benefit) the source would be released faster.

Finally, I don't think it's helping to have you continue to yell at people to essentially "shut up and be happy with what you have" and trying to intimidate people with the threat of legal action from Cyan. I also don't think it helps for Cyan to threaten to take down Uru. I think a lot of people would just like the chance to help or at least know why they can't.

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-Whilyam

cyan is not obligated to either let people help or explain why they won't. this is still their property to do or not do as they please with. i don't see why people have this sense of entitlement to stuff that isn't theirs.

Honestly, can we stop the character assassination? It is insulting to claim these people (who have provided many useful features to Uru) have some sense of entitlement. Furthermore this nonsense about property only serves to enflame arguments. Furthermore, it's insulting to me for you to claim I'm saying Cyan is "obligated" to do anything. Cyan can and will do whatever it wants. But I think the smart thing is not to get on your high horse and only do what you're strictly obligated to do, but to provide information to the people who will be building the game as a way of building customer relations. If Cyan did only what it was "obligated" to do, Uru would have failed once and never revived. They went beyond their obligations before, I don't see why they wouldn't want to now just because doing so would support something (open source) you're against.

It is this sort of marginalizing of people, and the language used, that's dangerous to the future of Uru. Claiming that people with another opinion have a "sense of entitlement" over "stuff that isn't theirs." That they are "demanding" thing and to associate the coding experiments with traditionally socially weak things like crying as a way of saying how futile these people's amazing efforts are. We should be better than this. We should not treat people who have done work Cyan keep this game running and adding new features better than this. It is this sort of treatment that makes long-time fans like Tweek want to stop working because of how people in this community treat one another.

Instead of speaking for Cyan, we should be speaking for ourselves. Let us dream of what could be and not waste our time tearing people down over what we think must not be.

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-Whilyam

Firesign wrote:

cyan is not obligated to either let people help or explain why they won't. this is still their property to do or not do as they please with. i don't see why people have this sense of entitlement to stuff that isn't theirs.

+1


I believe, if we are to play on Cyan's server, we follow their rules. If this means not exploiting security holes, so be it. Just as we would have to follow an admin's rules on a shard.

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KI#46415

Jamey wrote:

I believe, if we are to play on Cyan's server, we follow their rules. If this means not exploiting security holes, so be it. Just as we would have to follow an admin's rules on a shard.

I should point out: yes, obviously we should follow Cyan's rules. However, just leaving it at that ignores the other facts of the situation (which I've gone over).

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-Whilyam

Whilyam wrote:

Jamey wrote:

I believe, if we are to play on Cyan's server, we follow their rules. If this means not exploiting security holes, so be it. Just as we would have to follow an admin's rules on a shard.

I should point out: yes, obviously we should follow Cyan's rules. However, just leaving it at that ignores the other facts of the situation (which I've gone over).

Like... providing information when Cyan is not required to do so?

What other facts are you referring to? What am I ignoring here?

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KI#46415

Selective reading FTW

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That Cyan would benefit from letting people help patch the holes. That Cyan has worked with "hackers" before (and currently is in regards to the Pidgn plugin). That these holes need to be fixed sometime (by us or by Cyan). And generally that the situation isn't as black and white as you are incorrectly portraying it.

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-Whilyam

Oh Boy!!!! I can see that this thread is going to get real nasty, real fast! It is a shame that it's going to get locked just when it really gets exciting. I don't know about you guys, but I'm turning on the Email Notification for this one!

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It only takes one!

Whilyam wrote:

That Cyan would benefit from letting people help patch the holes. That Cyan has worked with "hackers" before (and currently is in regards to the Pidgn plugin). That these holes need to be fixed sometime (by us or by Cyan). And generally that the situation isn't as black and white as you are incorrectly portraying it.

Thank you for the clarification.

And I am not portraying anything as black and white thanks, I was only in need of clarification, which I again thank you for. Even if I was portraying it this way, it wouldn't matter. There is no one correct way to portray the situation, there are only different viewpoints.

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KI#46415