The thing about having an event in the city -- most of the time, you can get to it, and you can participate if you just happen to wander by. If it's in a neighborhood, sometimes those things fall off the Nexus -- also you can't just run into it. I'm so sorry Hitana's event didn't go off as planned - another time, maybe, please I hope?

The disadvantage in having an event in the city -- you can tie up the city for other events, and you can overload the city so that no one else can get in.

If you want city quiet, there's always the city instances off the neighborhoods, so I don't see that as much of an issue.

I think that as we (some flavor of collective we) get better at having events, event creators and planners will figure out the best place for them. It's a learning experience.

Getting back to OHB's event -- let's see how I can say this. OHB's event was an event that was more lively, by design, more dramatic, also (in a very interesting way) more puzzley. So there's going to be more talking, arguing, even action, though there's little of that you can do in Uru! It's a different sort of event from a dance party, or the lovely contemplative radio journeys Lord Chaos has been doing, his Silk Road series. Just different sorts of events. The challenge is to see how they don't conflict with each other, particularly if they are held in the city.

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I've been thinking a lot about the general mood of the explorers at OHB's event, especially after reading some forum posts.

I was only there for the last hour and a half or so (puzzles don't last long after I show up... or something), but while I was there I honestly didn't see anyone being incredibly rude or argumentative. Some people clearly just wanted to cause problems, to mess with the Bomb or what-have-you, but I gotta tell ya, that kind of behavior can't be blamed on OHB's event—that's just how some people act when granted the anonymity of the Internet.

To me the general mood or tone of the event was... chaotic. At some points it seemed like the entire crowd had completely lost sight of the puzzle. At some times people were just shouting about what would happen if the bomb went off, whether or not we should just let it go off, etc. And at some points everyone was contributing puzzle-solving suggestions, which frankly was still loud and unorganized.

But you know what? There was a bomb! And that's exactly how a crowd of people would react to a bomb on a countdown.

In that situation we can't be sensible all the time. Every now and then we just need to freak out! If that chaotic mood led to a few arguments and rude quips, I'm frankly unsurprised. But hey—IC, we defused a freakin' bomb, and I'd think the celebration of preventing a new hole (or cave-in!) in the Cavern should be enough to put a few small arguments behind us.

Right? Right?

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Personally, I was really into solving the puzzle and wasn't caring much about people making trouble. For that contribution list, yes, I wanted to do it in an order, and you are right, Christian, I was not there yet though at that moment. And mmh, well, I think more events like this should be held, and that they should be held in a well-known hood, with either announcements or good publicity on the spot (I think the bomb had quite a lot, for example).

And, like I said on the other topic, count me in for further events. I can help making some twisted puzzles

mszv wrote:

The disadvantage in having an event in the city -- you can tie up the city for other events, and you can overload the city so that no one else can get in.

This has always been an issue even when the city pop cap was set to 100... a visit by any member of the DRC also generated the complaints we have been seeing over this. Granted, a visit by the DRC is unlikely to last 6 hours.

This was an announced event scheduled to happen in the city. I do not recall seeing anyone else planning to use the city at that time for other than casual play. You can't pin the blame on the event when the problem is the limitations of the game.

mszv wrote:

If you want city quiet, there's always the city instances off the neighborhoods, so I don't see that as much of an issue.

I believe you trying to say if the city is too noisy or unavailable, you can always go to your city instance (and most likely be alone). This does not help the person trying to get in the public city to play with others. Everything else (marker missions, for example) can be done in an instance. For people, you need the public city.

The issue is, at this time, only members of the same hood can access a city instance. You cannot invite to or share those instances with anyone who is not a member. Until this is changed in some way, hood instances are not a solution for events.

The Guild Pubs require a stop by Kirel to pick up the appropriate support shirt to get in. I do not know if the pubs have a population cap or not.

Neighborhoods require someone to make sure they stay on the nexus. There should not be a pop cap (subject to possibly overloading the server).

The only other, always available (but with no back door access), public area with a 50 person cap is the Watcher's Pub.

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I missed the Bomb event

I'd argue that math IS all around you, and it's up to you to put the parts together. I'd never have figured it out... but then, I don't figure out most of the Myst puzzles on my own, either

I am sorry to hear that this event has caused upset with a small number of people and one or two have even said they have decided to leave the Cavern for a while because of it.

That said, what OHB did was fantastic. Probably one of the best things to come to the Cavern since its relaunch in February. It was far better than any old Gametap episode where Explorers would pile into a Bevin to meet a DRC character, who would refute and rebuff any and all questions put to them and then abruptly link out which was basically it for another month. (What was the point of that??)

I will admit OHB’s Bomb was a little of “enjoyable nonsense” (After all, what would really happen if he got to zero?), but it was nonsense people could take part in if they wished to. There was his fiendishly hard puzzle (which I would have never have solved) and there was the general atmosphere of the place and joining in the fun, and from where I was standing, that’s exactly what was happening (apart from one individual, but I won’t go into that here).

People have argued that they no longer like what the Cavern has become. Well, its still the same old Cavern as it always was, except that for the first time in five months, a group of talented guys put together a little bit of silliness that brought people into the Cavern for a few hours (perhaps the first time for a while), got people participating (maybe first time since the episodic days), gave people something to do (again, maybe not since the last Age release) and have a little interaction and fun as well. To be honest, that in itself was a remarkable achievement given we are all explorers and have no real control or ability to do anything within the game itself. Given all that, is the fact that this was all non-canon and out of the ‘Myst spirit’, really that important?

I dare say the whole thing could be viewed as a learning curve and I understand this event clashed with someone else’s and there was a problem with those who wanted to get in to the city with the population maxed out. I dare say if such another event was being planned, I would like to think maybe next time it could be planned it to avoid anything else that might be going on and maybe stage it somewhere where there are better population limits (Bevin?), perhaps come up with some puzzles even I could solve. I guess there is always going to be problems at some point in planning something like this and there will be a definite case of whatever you do, you are not being to please everyone.

I sincerely hope that those who have decided to leave, to at least please think again and regard the Bomb for what it really was. Its been five months since MOULa opened, which has had far fewer people actually in the Cavern since the MOUL days. The Bomb event was only a few hours of fun in what would have been an otherwise empty city, and for a short while OHB changed that and we all saw a glimpse of what the Cavern was like when it was at its peak.

B'ni Rabbit. wrote:

I am sorry to hear that this event has caused upset with a small number of people and one or two have even said they have decided to leave the Cavern for a while because of it.

I take people's complaints seriously...until they say "that's it, I'm leaving the cavern"...because they've just demonstrated their unwillingness to participate in the betterment of whatever it was they didn't like. Plus, I've yet to see someone say they were leaving the cavern and then actually leave it. In every previous case it's been nothing more than an attempt to illicit a response from everyone else.

B'ni Rabbit. wrote:

was his fiendishly hard puzzle

The next one won't be math-based - but it will be hard! That is...if there is a next one. At this time I have ZERO ideas for more events.

B'ni Rabbit. wrote:

Given all that, is the fact that this was all non-canon and out of the ‘Myst spirit’, really that important?

Technically, since it happened, it's canon. It's not story...but it is canon.

B'ni Rabbit. wrote:

I dare say the whole thing could be viewed as a learning curve

You're darn right about that!

B'ni Rabbit. wrote:

I sincerely hope that those who have decided to leave, to at least please think again and regard the Bomb for what it really was.

That is...those who ACTUALLY leave. And leaving for a week doesn't count. If you want to leave the cavern, uninstall MOUL. But I trust that no one will, nor do I expect anyone to based on prior experience. See above.

P.S. Thx for the post B'ni

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OHB

Last edited by OHB on Mon Jul 12, 2010 9:03 pm; edited 1 time in total

OHB,

It would be both important and interesting for everyone to discover approximately how many (wo)man hours went into the conceptualization, planning and execution of this demonstration. The answer could help concretize for many, just what sort of resources need to be brought to bear to entertain the cavern for the six hours it took to "consume" this content.

Thanks in advance....RK

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Regnad Kcin01 wrote:

OHB,

It would be both important and interesting for everyone to discover approximately how many (wo)man hours went into the conceptualization, planning and execution of this demonstration. The answer could help concretize for many, just what sort of resources need to be brought to bear to entertain the cavern for the six hours it took to "consume" this content.

Thanks in advance....RK

I just had the idea one day. It took me about an hour to get the audio and transcribe it. Half an hour to create the deactivation sequence puzzle. Maybe 6 hours to write the bomb's program. Half an hour to write the script for the pre-show. A total of three hours spend with those helping me in-cavern testing everything and going over the script. Oh, and another half-hour creating the necessary avatars. And the event lasted 6 hours.

So, total prep-time: 11.5 hours spread over a couple of weeks. Most time of course went to the bomb's program. I didn't keep exact track of time...but I think these are good estimates.

So...if we round that up to say 12 hours, we can say for every hour the event lasted, two hours preparation were needed...which I think is a pretty good number. Good events will always take longer to plan than they take to happen. Working out the story, preparing for different scenarios, preparing for things going wrong, etc.

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OHB

Well in my opinion I would call the entire event a success. I had lots of fun while I was there and though I had to keep my mouth shut for the most part it was great to see at least some explorers attempting to solve the puzzle. I think people who are complaining need to take a step back and look at the situation from a different perspective.

For instance I noticed that there were several people upset about the fact that the city was overloaded with people. I saw people back in the cavern that I hadn't seen in months all to watch this event unveil. I think that we were able to draw so many people back in the cavern shows that there is a good future for scheduled events like these.

I give credit to OHB because he always stands by his beliefs and values. He knew this was going to be controversial before we even got into it but we moved forward and a lot of people had fun. If everyone just decided to drop their ideas because they were afraid they would cause controversy then there would be no moving forward. If you don't like the direction URU is going then stop complaining and do something about it. There is plenty of room for everyone to get a chance to make a difference. There is nothing wrong with debate and it should be encouraged because you can learn many things from someone with a different view point. When debate turns into pointless arguing then no benefits are gained from it. Arguing only succeeds in moving us all backward. So if you wish to give URU a future you should think of ways to move forward and not backward.

There is something to be learned from this. The biggest problem I noticed is that no one was listening to each other. Several people (you know who you are) continued to stand inside the bomb and everyones attempts to get them away from it were ignored. It is always unfortunate to deal with people who show up at an event just to troll. Not only that but there was very little teamwork in the beginning. The puzzle could have been solved in half the time it took if people collaborated a little better. This is not directed at anyone these are just several ways to improve things next time we have an event that requires teamwork.

I will conclude by saying that I am happy with the way things turned out in the end. I am unhappy that I had a RL commitment and had to miss the ending but wasn't much I could do about that. So thank you again for this event OHB and I hope you continue to move forward and bring us more fun.

AgeExplorer wrote:

He knew this was going to be controversial before we even got into it but we moved forward and a lot of people had fun.

Well, actually, I only thought one thing /might/ cause controversy...and as it turned out, it didn't. At all. Not a single person mentioned it...so phew!

What was most annoying to me was Franzl and the other two who were standing next to the bomb using voice swearing and talking about sex and all sorts of things that didn't belong in the city. However, it was quite humorous in a way because the bomb had them on ignore, and everyone else was standing outside of voice range of the bomb so most people couldn't hear them anyway. All sorts of hilarity in that. I was inclined just to leave them there going on with their futile attempts to disrupt everyone.

That being said, they were highly inappropriate...and I wish I had a recording of it to send to Cyan...because we all know who Franzl really was.

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OHB

White Knight wrote:

My main point is this: solutions to anything must come from the inside-out, not the other way around. That's the only way they can have a lasting effect on anything.

That is true. It is also incomplete.

The world has prisons and death penalties for a reason. Society has solved many of its problems by isolating those that refuse to give up anti-social behavior. Anti-social behavior is strongly discouraged in real life. Failure to change or to conform to standards set by the majority of society is rewarded with removal from the social network.

Self improvement, consideration for others, and empathy for other viewpoints are learned behaviors. People that have learned them are generally happier. They also are more likely to have an influence on those around them. The challenge for them is in deciding where the balance point for tolerance of those that don’t is and deciding what to do with them once they exceed the limits.

The idea is to leave room for people to pursue their happiness and be free. It is when someone chooses to infringe on others that problems start. Somewhere in the infringing process people have to decide when to stop tolerating it.

One can learn to disagree in a civil way. One can learn to recognize faulty and illogical thinking, learn the limits of rudeness, to recognize abusive debate, and how to make intellectually honest decisions. The challenge comes when an anti-social clown enjoys pushing buttons, eliciting attention, and tries to control others. To complicate things there are times when rudeness and flaming are good things. Nice just does not always work. Violence is sometimes required and we delegate that task to enforcers (military, police, moderators).

At some point no matter how “enlightened” or skilled in dealing with problems one is they have to make decisions and set boundaries.

As a community grows and learn the group can make more cooperative decisions, be less biased, and arrive at consensus more often. That comes as individuals learn or increase their ‘Life Level’. But they still have to deal with anti-social griefers. Communities decide how and what limits they will set and what to do when they are exceeded. Failing to consider those decisions leaves a big hole in the Life Lessons.

Hitana, it sounds like you feel something changed. Whilyam is pointing out that rudeness and disagreement has always been part of life in Uru. I could be catty. But, suffice to say he is correct. Tai’lahr points out the DRC events. You may have had a new and not so pleasant experience, but to many of us finding rude behavior is not new.

Regardless of what OHB did, it is what others did with it that is at issue. I’m with Szark on this one. I missed the event but I think OHB did a great puzzle and created an opportunity for fun. White Knight with the Peasants is creating an opportunity for learning. That will threaten some and have its own problems. AgeExplorer’s taking this as a good indicator for attendance of future events is hopefully accurate. These things are all just life in Uru. Enjoy it.

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@AgeExplorer: I agree with you whole heartedly. I felt this was a diverse and interesting opportunity.

@OHB: I would like to thank you for the time and effort you put in, without compensation, to provide and unique and interesting experience in the cavern.



Not everyone is going to enjoy every aspect of events and game content--Cyan created or otherwise. In this case it was OHB's creation, and in this case, some people didn't enjoy it. No one was forcing them either way.

I don't particularly enjoy the Pod ages--they are neat for about .5 seconds to me. Many things could be the root of that: impatience, ignorance, etc. Whatever it is--I choose not to explore the ages much at all. Some may argue that it's no great loss, some may argue I'm doing Cyan artists a disservice by not fully appreciating the bit that someone developed.

Tough darts.

The same rule, I believe, goes for user-created content. Because it was created by a human, it is bound to have flaws, be them physical flaws or the flaws of appealing to one player and not another. As such, not all are going to enjoy said user-created content.

Now, user-created content doesn't replace Cyan-created content. Just for the sheer fact that user content won't appeal to the canonical nature of anything Cyan produces--I won't ignore the fact that this community is built around Cyan's MYST Mythology and therefore most items produced by Cyan will be, as a majority, appreciated, approved and enjoyed by many of the people logging into MOULa. Cyan created content fills gaps and needs that most user-content can ever really, fully replace.

That being said, at least someone was willing to step out and possibly over the edge to provide a bit more stir, bustle, and attention to the world of MOULa. I don't think we should go all witch-hunt and pitchforks over something that irritated a few people or that was a bit out of the ordinary.

We can never truly please the entire spectrum of users--if it were so, URU would have been a booming success from before day one.

I wholeheartedly support user-created content and events and hope that others will begin to see the light as well. Only we can truly bring light to the cavern, let's not snuff it out before it's even begun to get brighter.

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I would like to say that, even though I was given credit by OHB for the creation of this, that I didn't really contribute directly to the creation and execution of the event.

There were some indirect actions that I did to help out (of course at the time I had no clue what the "other project' that OHB was working on was. All I knew is that something existed).

So yeah...

PS: And let's just be honest, I have no clue how that puzzle was made. I'm not even sure on how you get from the numbers to the equation...

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