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PostPosted: Wed May 25, 2011 10:15 am 
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Nalates wrote:
ChloeRhodes says her pipeline of ages is changing over to MOSS/MOULa. So, we are not far from having MOSS ages. Plus there are others like Andy that are building in 3DS with the Cyan plug-in. I'm sure those are not the only two.


Andy may indeed use the Cyan plugin - but all his screenshots up until recently could've only been taken in the Uru Complete Chronicles engine - and thus, he had to have used Drizzle, which is very much against the rules.

These topics do exist, but they are definitely /against/ forum rules. Why the moderators have chose to turn a blind eye, I do not know. But I doubt they will always turn a blind eye.

Also, The Fun House / Hood of Illusions forum is about hacking MO:UL, which is expressly permitted.

Right now, it is against the rules of the forum as written (if not as enforced) to speak of the Fan Ages released until now.

The reason, as stated above, is that any Fan Ages released (or shown) as of right now, breaks the forum rules as quoted in Luna's post. Just because the rule isn't being enforced, does not mean it is not against the rules.


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PostPosted: Wed May 25, 2011 2:04 pm 
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Could someone point me to the posted forum rules?


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PostPosted: Wed May 25, 2011 2:31 pm 
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"Catch-22" anyone. :P


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PostPosted: Wed May 25, 2011 5:16 pm 
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kaelisebonrai wrote:
Andy may indeed use the Cyan plugin - but all his screenshots up until recently could've only been taken in the Uru Complete Chronicles engine - and thus, he had to have used Drizzle, which is very much against the rules.

He has been building for the CC engine and recently changed over to targeting MOULa/MOSS. What is your point about Andy using Drizzle?

As to which threads are and are not against the [i]rules[/I,] I’ll suggest they aren’t and that is why they continue on. Discussion of story, events in other ages - fan or otherwise, and building of ages are not prohibited. Discussion of how to hack CC and other Cyan games to exploit the games or add fan ages is. While that may seem weird I think it makes sense in the light of IP protection and probable licensing agreements.
[/@]

It is not uncommon on this forum to tell new players about fan ages and post pictures from the ages. We often send players to GoW and GoMa to learn how to access fan ages and dance around Drizzle in the process. Those visiting the ages often post their reactions to them on the site where they picked up the ages. It is not uncommon to see thanks, commendations, and wow’s expressed there.

It is common to see people post about Myst style ages in other game engines, Minecraft comes to mind. Those threads are not a problem when placed in the correct sections of the forum.

@lunanne, I think you are ignoring a distinction between discussing reverse engineering PyPRP and using PrPRP to build ages and the ages built using PyPRP. I think people are unclear on what is and is not permissible and the nuances.
[/@]

I see discussing how to build and change PyPRP on one side of the line. How to install and use PyPRP is over the line too. That it exists and can be downloaded falls in a grey area. But, limited and discrete discussion is sprinkled through the forum. The ages that have been built with it are on the 'discussable' side of the line. The moderators can correct this if I’m wrong.

Those that want to be thanked for their efforts in creating PyPRP are disadvantaged. They have known that for years. They have done amazing work. They deserve some thanks. But, PyPRP and Drizzle create legal problems for Cyan. That too has been known for years. So, there are limitations on this forum. Those issues confuse what thanks are being given or deserved.

With the Cyan Plug-in, CWE, and MOSS out I see no reason the new PyPRP version cannot be discussed. Once MOSS is working well enough to have an installer fan age creation looses many of the legal complications that have held things back. But, several people seem to have failed to realize the distinction and continue to think it violates the rules and thus limit their discussion.

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PostPosted: Wed May 25, 2011 6:01 pm 
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I would think that we could openly discuss things here, but I thought wrong.

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PostPosted: Wed May 25, 2011 6:29 pm 
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Location: um... how did i get here..?
apparently, Adam, they're working on it...

my guess is they realize it makes as little sense as you think it does not to be able to discuss such matters on these forums what with them being so vital to OS and all... in an ideal world we would be able to and i'm sure Cyan doesn't rly care that we do other than that it can cause trivial issues, i.e.: legal nonsense that Cyan is assuredly less than interested in being involved with.

it takes time, Cyan is a business with plenty on their plate. they're just as committed to OS as we are... they're making progress... "someday" (tm Cyan Worlds Inc all rights reserved) we'll be able to freely discuss such topics. "someday" always comes... eventually


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PostPosted: Wed May 25, 2011 6:40 pm 
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Yes, I know they're "working on it" ... I can read >.> (that's not an insult btw)

Until they get done working on it, certain things cannot be discussed here.

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PostPosted: Wed May 25, 2011 8:17 pm 
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Maybe if they spent less time "working on it" and more time consulting with people like Adam, they wouldn't have to waste so much time "working on it".

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PostPosted: Wed May 25, 2011 9:50 pm 
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I can't really write a definitive, all encompassing, response to some of the issues that have been raised here, a) because it'd end up being a tl:dr post (it might be anyway), b) because it'd just derail this thread even further than it already has been and c) because I don't know all the answers. So this is going to be fairly brief (I hope). The discussion has been going on here, so I'll post here for continuity, but if anyone wants to take these points up further then I strongly suggest that they start a new thread or threads for that, and let this thread get back to it's topic.

Firstly, it is not against forum policies to discuss fan created ages - there are two forums here specifically for that, so clearly it'd be silly to say that you can't discuss fan ages here at all. But there are nuances that mean that some aspects can't be discussed here. If you want to talk about how the age looks, any features it has, what the background story to it is etc., then you're on pretty safe ground. Equally, if you're talking about using the Cyan plugin to create ages for a MOUL-like server, then you're probably OK. Even Blender/PyPRP is OK, but further down that particular pipeline you get into the grey area of Drizzle. Please understand that it is not Drizzle's use in importing Fan Ages into URU:CC that is a problem, but rather other features it possesses that could contravene Forum Policy I by extracting content from other Cyan products.

Following on from that, injecting a Fan Age into Uru:CC for your own personal use is not in itself a problem, so using images garnered that way is fine. A discussion of how you got the fan age in there could be a sticky point (see above).

Shards are another wooly area. A MOUL-like server (e.g. Dirtsand, MOSS) using open source clients is an OK subject here, with the caveat that until a license is provided allowing the redistribution of MOULa content, then Cyan ages cannot be dowloaded from the shard server. Fan Ages on such a shard should be OK though. A UU based shard or one that requires you to use a modified Uru:CC client is not OK (Policy I again). The problem here is that not everyone will know which shards fall into the "approved" or "disapproved" categories, and one of the things we're trying to get in place is a list of shards that are within policy, but that needs people to tell us when OS shards appear so they can be added to the list.

There's nothing to say you can't start a thread to discuss forum policies. But be aware that the moderators will be naturally wary of the motives behind that since "discussing the rules" has on occasion been used as a subterfuge to try to open a discussion that is actually prohibited by the forum policies. A bit of a Catch-22, I know, but it's OK to discuss what the rules mean, or what's right or wrong with them in general terms, but if you start citing specific examples then you run the risk of going out of bounds.

I hope that clears up some points, but I expect it'll raise almost as many questions as it answers.

Now, can anyone remember what the original topic here was? :)

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PostPosted: Wed Jun 01, 2011 4:26 am 
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Mac_Fife wrote:
Now, can anyone remember what the original topic here was? :)


This has inspired me to send you a private message about forum policy. Congrats!

I believe the original topic dealt with thanking those who're doing, and not just talking.

Thanks, do-ers.

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PostPosted: Wed Jun 01, 2011 4:37 am 
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lunanne wrote:
Going offtopic is agains the rules though.


Really?

How 'bout them Reds?...

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