Neutrinos can travel faster than light ('c')?
http://www.physorg.com/news/2011-09-cern-faster-than-light-particle.html

IF - stressing IF - reports are valid and true, has anyone thought of the simplest answer that c has been undervalued and that neutrinos would be a better metric for c than other forms of energy through a vacuum? Einstein's Special Theory of Relativity can still be correct, but we need to adjust c a little higher. I don't have the knowledge to argue that hypothesis, or possible consequences to the strong nuclear force, for example, that binds matter together. Perhaps waves and photons don't propagate through a vacuum at absolute c. The margin in excess of c is so slight that it makes one wonder why, if anything can exceed c, it's so slight and why it couldn't be far more arbitrary. Or maybe it is and we just haven't detected such things yet.

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Last edited by JWPlatt on Fri Sep 23, 2011 8:17 pm; edited 1 time in total

This is why I went to graduate school in economics - there are no universal constants to worry about when it comes to humans (except the number 42, of course). That does mean, however, that we social scientists don't get zillion dollar grants to build ginormous machines to measure such constants . . .

Okay, I'm going to turn on this switch and we will measure how long it takes you to buy that candy bar . . .

BBBZZZZZZTTTZZZTTTZZ

Ooops, too much power, I guess, sorry about that . . .

JWPlatt joined on 09 May 2006 and brought this to our attention....
Zardoz joined on 08 May 2006 and Zapped us....
/me was wondering if anyone that joined on 07 May 2006 can get the whole time-travel thing in order....lol


I saw that this AM JW very interesting....

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The energy required to accelerate a massive object to c is infinite. Neutrinos have mass. Therefore, neutrinos cannot be the basis for c. The only particle without mass that's known to exist is the photon, so that has to be our basis for c (since a massless particle cannot be accelerated or decelerated, except by quantum effects that can "trap" photons). Aside from experimental errors measuring the speed of light, it's the only possible value we have for c.

Now, it's possible some sort of weird quantum or brane effect comes in to play with neutrinos moving very close to the speed of light. If so, that's really cool physics, and I'd love to see it confirmed. Most likely, there's a source of error that the scientists failed to take in to account, and their findings will be shown to be flawed.

EDIT: I should say that first paragraph assumes that Relativity actually does hold when pushed to its limits

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Most people aren't aware of the full relativistic equation:

e=mc^2 / squareroot(1 - (v^2 / c^2))

This suggests only that it is impossible, because of an unresolved divide by zero that implies infinite energy, for anything to accelerate upward through c, or decelerate downward through c. If something can travel faster than c, it makes one wonder if entropy of the universe and its acceleration of expansion are directly related. The relativistic portion of the equation - the denominator - suggests that a braking thrust of anything traveling faster than c increases its velocity away from c, and an accelerating thrust actually decreases its velocity toward c. Pushing on the gas pedal to slow down isn't exactly intuitive, but this isn't your average car ride. It's what the equation bears out. Now introduce entropy, something that might conceptually be applied as a braking thrust for particles traveling faster than c, and we have something that accelerates the expansion of the universe - maybe with these neutrinos in the lead. It might also have something to say about inflation of the very early universe where entropy was dramatically high, then leveled out.

Or, yes, it could be the most probable explanation of experimental error. That would be much simpler.

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Miranda2 wrote:

Oh Noes!! Miranda suffered a blowout!!

Can anyone lend a GPS, mine's lost and recalculating

This all goes totally into the Quantum Physics, into multidimensionality and interdimensionality as well as multiple
(simultaneous) realities, gamma rays, time shiftings etc. and you can consider those detections just the beginning
of much much more exciting revelations to come, I suppose haha ... Thanks for bringing this up here right now, JW ...

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Quote:

Despite the large significance of the measurement reported here and the stability of the analysis, the potentially great impact of the result motivates the continuation of our studies in order to investigate possible still unknown systematic effects that could explain the observed anomaly. We deliberately do not attempt any theoretical or phenomenological interpretation of the results

After actually reading the paper, we can safely conclude the reporters are being sensationalist idiots. The researchers happily admit "this is weird--we want to do more testing before we even think about the implications. There's probably a simpler explanation here."

Regards,
A Science Major

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Hey! Just how fast do we travel when we fall into the cleft?

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Quote:

After actually reading the paper, we can safely conclude the reporters are being sensationalist idiots. The researchers happily admit "this is weird--we want to do more testing before we even think about the implications. There's probably a simpler explanation here."

Regards,
A Science Major

'Zactly what I thought when I read that part of the article. More testing along with more cowbell makes for happy researchers. Like the first time astronomers found a "planet" around a star. Happened a number of years ago. Turned out the device they used had a wobble on its base. No planet. That corrected, they are indeed finding planets around distant stars.[/quote]

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I guess that's one way to find another Earth-like planet

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AdamJohnso wrote:

I guess that's one way to find another Earth-like planet

Then if they ever get there they go, "I swear it was right here!"

The word neutrino comes out to a certain book between Great Zero Antechamber.
　↓
1. Once you have uploaded 15 GZM's, you will find a new link in your Nexus. That link will take you to the Great Zero courtyard, the central location of the Great Zero neutrino dispenser.

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One must wonder if it is on the boarder of breaking the theory (even after a hundred years it's still a theory because of experiments like this). If you read about the theory, you'll learn that it's science is unmatched yet incomplete. A full and complete theory is likely a massive conundrum we won't see solved for years to come (it's the difference between pi and 3.14 really). That said, one has to wonder IF it's possible. There's gravity that could be affecting it, light, and air. The details of thir experiment were scarce so we don't know if those things were having an effect. If it proves to be true, then the physics world will be turned upside down and maybe (hopefully) we'll see FTL space ship designs in 50 years.

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