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Nalates

Joined: 11 May 2006

Posts: 1672

Location: California

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Post Posted: Thu Oct 06, 2011 5:01 pm — Post subject: Cyanist to Fix SL

This is just an interesting bit of trivia. The trivia is the last line of this post. The rest in between is making it make sense.

To set the stage, you need to know what’s up in English not SL jargon. SL, Second Life, is a virtual world in which about 660 Uru fans have joined the in-world group D’ni Refugees. I’ve long pushed it as a place to start learning 3D modeling. I think a large portion of those fans in SL have learned some aspect of 3D modeling. Whatever the case, modeling in SL has been done with primitive shapes (usually called prims). The primitive shapes are changed by parametric deformations. There’s a geeky term, I’ll explain it.

In SL we can make a cube very much like one makes a cube in Blender. Click the menu and poof you have a cube. In both Blender and SL cubes are made of a number of polygons. At each corner of a polygon is a vertex, a point.

In Blender we can edit any individual vertex and place it anywhere we want. We can add more polygons and change the shape of the cube. We can blend a cube and a cylinder together. We can rotate the top 4 vertices of the cube to twist it.

In SL modifying the cube is done differently. The modifications are done with ‘settings’ or parameters. We cannot select individual vertices and move them. We cannot merge a cube and cylinder into a single object. We can set a ‘twist value’ to twist the cube. We can set a slice value to carve the cube in a limited way. We can set X, Y, Z values to scale the cube. This is what is meant by parametric deformation. Rather than editing vertices and having to learn Blender or 3DS we just enter values, parameters, in an object’s property panel until we have a shape and size we want. A parametric building process is a very simplified modeling environment, which is why I think it is a good beginners learning environment.

In SL the building process changed in August. We can now use custom objects in addition to the parametric objects. We can model in Blender or 3DS and bring free form non-parametric models into SL. The building system is not as advanced as Blue Mars or Unreal. There are some parts of the implementation that are incomplete and that is where former Cyanist Karl "qarl" Stiefvater comes in.

One of the new things we can do in SL is model clothes for our avatars to wear. In 3D modeling avatars have a skeleton made up of bones. The body and clothes worn are connected to the bones, a process called rigging. This allows the arm and sleeve to move together.

In SL the avatar shape is controlled, as you might guess, by parameters. We have parametric avatars, as do most 3D virtual worlds. We can set the size and shape of our nose, lips, breasts, waist, bottom, and etc.

One of the incomplete parts of SL is the avatar parameters do NOT affect clothes. Oops! So, your bottom may poke through a dress or pants. The current fix is to use an Alpha Layer to make parts of the avatar invisible. It works, but… we learned something about people using this approach.

People spend time making their avatar and working to get their shape just right. With women breast, waist, and hip sizes are import as they convey a level sexuality, which can be too much or too little. So, clothes that do not conform to the personalized shape and effectively redefine it are a problem.

So, a number of users are coming together to hire Qarl to build a deformation system that works with the new currently non-parametric clothes in SL.

Qarl formerly of Cyan may fix our SL clothes. (Reference)


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Abjab

Joined: 03 Jan 2007

Posts: 137

Location: Seattle, Washington, USA

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Post Posted: Mon Oct 17, 2011 5:00 am — Post subject:

Nalates said:

Quote:

Qarl formerly of Cyan may fix our SL clothes. (http://www.indiegogo.com/Mesh-Clothing-Parametric-Deformer-Project)


Woah ! we can make clothing that doesn't fit, and now we fix it ? Shocked Phew ! There's a marketting challenge ..Not sure if that would be more, or less, popular......(Ummm, on Second Thoughts, strike that.. Embarassed ). I knew there was a reason for my irrational SL avoidance prejudice somewhere...(Clothing confidence has been duly noted and added to list Smile ). But I'm feeling better about visiting already, now Very Happy

Nalates' post should be required Intro reading for wannabe 3D modellers, IMHO...it provides a set of all the relevant key process references for further reading in one great context, ....Lacking that modeling ability, here is a contribution Smile Good Luck, and let us all know how it goes !.......Thank You Nalates and quarl !


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Abjab

Hi All !!.....Myst'ya !.....

Nalates

Joined: 11 May 2006

Posts: 1672

Location: California

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Post Posted: Mon Oct 17, 2011 5:01 pm — Post subject:

It is easy to make fun of things we don't understand. It is certainly easy to make fun of SL, understood or not. The same is true of Uru Open Source.

However, it appears a professional programmer with a background that includes time with Cyan is going to be working with SL. That I find interesting.

Several Myst-Uru fans are now in SL and make a difference in that world. Several have changed roles from user only to also become novice, intermediate, and advanced 3D modelers. Kerryth and Dmom both had models in this year’s SL tribute to the Burning Man event.


This is typical of the lacy castles Kerryth makes for the Burn events. She builds a number of things for SL and has, last I looked, an SL store selling gorgeous dresses, art, and furnishings. She makes some gorgeous wings.

Dmom makes vehicles I can drive around. Try that in Plasma/Uru.

It would be interesting to have good statistics on the number of Myst-Uru fans that have taken up 3D modeling because they wanted to build Myst-style ages. I would like to see the stats on how many fans felt Plasma/Blender modeling was overwhelming and avoided age building. Of those that went to SL and other games what percentage in each alternate game have become modelers?

As to clothes fitting in SL... they do and they don't. Most clothes are a decal on the 7,000+ poly avatar. One makes an image file according to a template to make a shirt, pants, or skirt. That is considered standard clothes. They fit perfectly and because the avatar polys are shaped by parameters the 'decal' clothes are shaped by them too. It makes for a relatively easy way to make custom clothes. All one needs is a copy of the templates, free, and an image editor like GIMP, free too. Plus there are literally thousands of tutorials about how to make SL std clothes, both in and out of world. It is an easy introduction to using UV Maps.



The new custom model clothes made in Blender are not currently affected by the parametric controls that affect the avatar shape. So, in a tech sense they do not fit. But, if one were to see an image of an avatar wearing the new style of clothes they would be wondering what I meant by not fitting. All visual indicators are: they fit. The 'not fitting' issue is about not fitting the way a number of people in SL want them to.

As it is now, getting fit correct is overly complex... well complex by SL standards. Karl is going to simplify the process, if that project moves ahead. We will get more information today on how that project is going.

I thought it was too much to explain the complexity and subtleties of what and why Karl is getting involved. I wanted a simpler fame for what was happening. It is very possible to make the new style of model clothes fit. The subtle issue is that one must export their 'parametric shaped' avatar and use it for a model, which is pretty much what one would do with most virtual worlds in which they choose to create clothes. The not fit issue comes in when one wants to share the clothes among differently shaped avatars. It gets unnecessarily complex, especially by SL standards, for modelers and users of the clothes. Karl's work will make it easier for clothes makers' clothes to easily fit all avatar shapes in SL.

It is easy to learn modeling in SL and see immediate results. The modeling process there is becoming similar to the process for Unreal, CryEng, and other modern game platforms. One makes and textures models in Blender, Maya, or other modeling programs and imports them to an SDK for their chosen game engine. SL skips the next step of using the engine to compile the game and make a playable version. SL is the SDK and final environment combined. Once a model is imported to SL it is in the final multi-user environment.

The simplified building environment of SL has allowed many people to learn 3D modeling at their pace and in the bite sized chunks they are comfortable with. Whether one goes to a college and learns modeling or learns it in their free time as a hobby, it leads to the same result, having a skill in 3D modeling. While SL has its limits, it is a good learning environment for beginners. That it has a highly simplified parametric modeling environment in-world is exceptional in the game world.


3D model imported to SL.


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Lord Chaos

Joined: 08 Sep 2006

Posts: 1110

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Post Posted: Tue Oct 18, 2011 1:44 am — Post subject:

What's remarkable to me about Second LIfe is how active people are in building things. These people just aren't content to watch others make things; they get into it and make their own mistakes. I've seen some truly beautiful things there.

My own practice there is very simple: I know how to modify an existing object, and I know how to place them in the world. I don't have much interest in 3-D modelling; the time I'd spend doing that, I'd rather spend doing something outdoors. The events we've staged in SL, though, wouild never have happened in "real life," so it's a new form of expression.


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Nalates

Joined: 11 May 2006

Posts: 1672

Location: California

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Post Posted: Tue Oct 18, 2011 3:08 pm — Post subject:

One of the interesting things that is happening in SL is the user funding of projects. Indeigogo.com and CrowdFunder.co.uk are being used to raise money. Karl's project is being funded on Indeigogo.com. The target goal is US$5,400. Over 50% was raised in 5 days.

Another project is the Kirsten Viewer, like the CWE Uru client. A talented programmer created a 'viewer' (the client side) for SL with a better render pipeline and additional enhancements for screen captures (photography) and machinima. Due to health issues in his family he was going to take another job. The community is attempting to raise UK$25,000. For this developer it is an all or nothing deal. If the money can be raised in a specified time, the project goes forward. If not, the money contributed will be returned.

In most fund raisers the cost of accepting the money or holding checks and then the cost of returning the money is so costly it cannot be done. The Kirsten Viewer project can quickly find out how many people are serious and make a decision on whether to proceed or not.

This may be a funding path for future MOULa development.


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Dudemom_2000

Joined: 27 Sep 2006

Posts: 1503

Location: Columbus, Ohio

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Post Posted: Tue Oct 18, 2011 8:44 pm — Post subject:

Quote:

It would be interesting to have good statistics on the number of Myst-Uru fans that have taken up 3D modeling because they wanted to build Myst-style ages. I would like to see the stats on how many fans felt Plasma/Blender modeling was overwhelming and avoided age building. Of those that went to SL and other games what percentage in each alternate game have become modelers?



I didn't take up 3D modeling to build Myst-style ages. Actually I spent my first year not really building in SL and then took the first classes DeAnn was teaching to support her efforts and thanks to her teaching skills found that I could build. From there, yes, I make vehicles (not your run-of-the-mill motorcycles, cars etc.) but make some wild and crazy things that have come out of my imagination. I have put it to good use with Burn 2 Department of Mutant Vehicles which is the only virtual Regional of Burning Man. Most of what I do modeling there is within SL parameters though I have been expanding into sculpties and hopefully mesh.

Additionally I got an interest in animating as I was in a percussion troupe that performs live on the virtual instruments we build, texture and script. I do this in Blender. D R U M at Fortress of Beat The first part of the video shows some of the great artists of SL and links to see their work at project Z and our troupe starts playing at about 1:42 in the video. One of our performers helped build this venue. Trust me, it is not easy coordinating the work of 6 people to come up with the instruments, sounds, scripting and animation. That doesn't include the time we spent practicing because we really are playing these instruments live. We have made some pretty decent money in SL performing, too.

As for mesh, it is in the early days but there are some incredible things coming out of it - I am the cat in the tutu (it was Tutu Tuesday at Burn 2, what can I say?)


DMom2K Mesh Cat & Bo Tiger at Main Gate by DMom2K Darwin, on Flickr


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Nalates

Joined: 11 May 2006

Posts: 1672

Location: California

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Post Posted: Wed Oct 19, 2011 6:58 pm — Post subject:

Wow! I did not know you were in Blender making animations. Congrats!

You may be an exception in your motivation to learn modeling. But, I suspect you are not alone. I suppose others have other motivations too. The number of Myst replications and Myst-style builds gives me the idea more were influenced by Myst to build. But, I have no numbers, so it is just speculation.

The feline avatar in a tutu is so cute.


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Dudemom_2000

Joined: 27 Sep 2006

Posts: 1503

Location: Columbus, Ohio

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Post Posted: Wed Oct 19, 2011 8:09 pm — Post subject:

Yes, all the animations you see in the video with ~D R U M~ are the ones I did. When we were starting out, we could not find many instrument playing animations and those we did find were quite frankly crappy. The one or two we did find that were even remotely close to what we were looking for the makers would not sell us the animation full perm which we needed. So I was highly motivated to figure this out, lol. I tried Qavimator but found it clunky to use and the end product wasn't that smooth so I took a flying leap at Blender. It was not easy and I still learn new things every day but every single animation our troupe uses, I produced. Too bad the newest version of Blender still does not really work to create and upload into SL, though I am hoping someday they take pity and fix that. I use the old 2.49 for that but have the newer one to learn sculpting with.

In a way I guess you can say Myst influenced me. I do have to say I see a lot of influence in the builds of the various Refugees in SL. I think we have put our own flavor into it as well.


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Moula:
DMom2K KI 74181
GameBoomer KI 83122

SL:
DMom2K Darwin

Citizen of the Metaverse and oh, yeah, The Dude abides....

Nalates

Joined: 11 May 2006

Posts: 1672

Location: California

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Post Posted: Fri Oct 21, 2011 4:28 pm — Post subject:

Blender 2.6 is out and is supposed to have a better animation system. Whether that means it will work better or worse with SL I don't know yet. I got my copy today, but haven't gotten to work with it yet.

Getting rigged models via Collada into SL hit another bump with this upgrade. Part of the bone rotation and joint displacement changed causing Collada uploads to SL to fail. But, I haven't heard anything about the animation side of things.

If you want to try it without messing up your current Blender install, I have an alternate Blender install tutorial that allows one to have separate versions of Blender installed. Something that is definitely needed for working with Uru ages. Scroll down to the heading Problem Saver Install.

I've been redoing the terrain in my OpenSim regions using height maps made in Blender 2.59. Trying to work with a large number of vertices for a 768x768m region is a problem as 2.59 crashes after about 5 minutes of work. I'm hoping 2.6 has that fixed.


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Dudemom_2000

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Post Posted: Fri Oct 21, 2011 5:21 pm — Post subject:

I am running 2.59 and 2.49 separately without any issues. I use the 2.49 strictly for the animating using Jack Antonelli's script to get it into SL. Recently I found a revision by OptimoMaximo called "OptimoMaximo's Resident's IK constraints revision" He is teaching Blender Animation classes at Builders Brewery in SL. He is evidently not in the US and when I saw his class advertised it was in the morning and I was not able to make it. I plan on watching for his next class and hope to grab it as I think you always learn new things and I am sure he has some tricks that would help me out.

Here is another set I did the animations for which was one of the more difficult ones I have attempted (again we are playing these virtual instruments live)
D R U M plays East Indian

I laugh every time we play this set because when Brig and I were getting the animations set for each instrument we started playing and jamming with the kanjira (hand drum) and sitar and lost track of time we were so into it...


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Citizen of the Metaverse and oh, yeah, The Dude abides....

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