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AdamJohnso

Joined: 09 May 2006

Posts: 1274

Location: Milledgeville, GA

JWPlatt wrote:

rocketdog wrote:
If anyone has a better idea please post It, I’m all ears.

I did. You didn't mention it. May I assume those ears are still open?

At this point, it looks like the ears are firmly closed and that we're in full rant/rave mode. It's beginning to be difficult to have meaningful discussion when the topic is continually lost in the midst of three-post-long tirades.

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rocketdog

Joined: 22 May 2006

Posts: 130

Location: Wisconsin

Is there anyone who can confirm that the IP and MAC address can be easily spoofed. I know I needed to spoof a MAC address in TeamSpeak for one of the people on my teamSpeak and it only took seconds with a free software download. Would this be the same for URU?

I've never spoofed an IP but I have heard of it being done.

My guess is IP and MAC address recognition won't work. But If anyone has had more experience with this please let us know.

I've also been looking for some kind of security program that can stop a banned computer from reconnecting to a server but I haven't found anything yet.

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Nicoleleigh

Joined: 20 Feb 2011

Posts: 116

Location: Memphis, Tennessee

Please let the suggestions we now have go forth and see what happens.
I firmly believe that Cyan, employees, and the moderators can do a plan to remedy this problem.
Forcing me and others who may not have the $10 to spend to make a new "fun" avvie is and will never be the answer.
Let the powers to be do their job. If you want to send the game $1000.00, feel free to do so.
Charging $10 is like charging all customers entering a grocery store when a few customers are jerks.
Let's just mellow out.
As for me, if I encounter a griefer, I walk away and come back later.

And finally, let's URU and walk away from the griefers.

Peace

rocketdog

Joined: 22 May 2006

Posts: 130

Location: Wisconsin

AdamJohnso wrote:

Quote:

JWPlatt wrote:

rocketdog wrote:
If anyone has a better idea please post It, I’m all ears.

I did. You didn't mention it. May I assume those ears are still open?

At this point, it looks like the ears are firmly closed and that we're in full rant/rave mode. It's beginning to be difficult to have meaningful discussion when the topic is continually lost in the midst of three-post-long tirades.

You are correct

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Tomala

Joined: 13 May 2006

Posts: 973

Location: Anywhere

rocketdog wrote:

Tomala

Mac addresses can be spoofed. There is free software that will spoof the degenerates mac address in seconds.

Then if possible, perhaps a list of said programs should be put together into a blacklist for a future client that would throw an exception if the game notices a MAC address changing program running in the background. I've had programs and installations refuse to run because it would detect something in the background that the program/installer would deem incompatible. For example when installing antivirus software it would tell me to turn off my software firewall because the program is incompatible.

Or perhaps a hardware/software survey that inspects your computer to see if it's compatible with the game and checks for those types of programs in the background.

Food for thought.

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Mac_Fife

Uru Live Moderator

Joined: 10 Nov 2006

Posts: 3182

Location: Scotland

Yes, MAC addresses can be spoofed, but that can have unexpected effects on your local network depending on circumstances - If anyone changes a MAC on my local net here at home they'll be denied access to the entire network; the same applies in my office (BTW, I can't really understand why anyone would need to change a MAC address for TeamSpeak, but that's OT).

In the TCP protocol, a "valid" IP address is essential to keeping a connection running - you can't just modify the source IP address on your outgoing packets, since any responses would be sent to the machine that really holds that IP address. For most people, the IP address that presents on the internet is allocated by your ISP and you can't change that. However there are anonymizing services (like the Tor network) that can act as proxies so an individual's IP address is hidden. These are often used by spammers, so they're now well known and frequently the entire range of endpoint IPs presented by these services are blacklisted and blocked.

There are many features that could be used to build an identity of the client PC, but you'd have to make sure not to use anything that is Windows specific. A lot of PCs, particularly laptops, now contain an "asset tracking ID" to combat theft and to allow corporate owners to ensure that all their PCs are updated regularly, etc. I also think (but would need to check) that most reasonably modern processors contain serial numbers. It could be possible to construct an ID using a combination of these features.

I still think a hardware based ID is preferable to a mandatory fee. Cyan have never directly charged for any incarnation of Uru (e.g. during GameTap MOUL, subscriptions were paid to GameTap not Cyan) so they do not have the software that can correlate fees/donations to specific user accounts - that's why the donation page asks for an avatar name, as they've no other way of knowing who the donation is from. That would need to be put in place first, so there's an upfront investment before you could start to collect any fees. At the moment, I can live quite comfortably with MOUL and it's little security holes, because it's "just a game". As soon as you start linking credit card payments, etc., to it, then I'm going to become very uncomfortable.

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Leonardo

Joined: 09 May 2006

Posts: 1940

Location: Italy

Mac_Fife wrote:

I still think a hardware based ID is preferable to a mandatory fee. Cyan have never directly charged for any incarnation of Uru (e.g. during GameTap MOUL, subscriptions were paid to GameTap not Cyan) so they do not have the software that can correlate fees/donations to specific user accounts - that's why the donation page asks for an avatar name, as they've no other way of knowing who the donation is from. That would need to be put in place first, so there's an upfront investment before you could start to collect any fees. At the moment, I can live quite comfortably with MOUL and it's little security holes, because it's "just a game". As soon as you start linking credit card payments, etc., to it, then I'm going to become very uncomfortable.

Cyan *may* already have a way to correlate PayPal payments to MOULa accounts. Remember when they first announced MORE? They chose to use a payment system based on PayPal, directly to Cyan, and Chogon posted at a certain point that he was quite close to finishing the software to link PayPal payments to MOULa accounts. Maybe he didn't delete all that work.
But your concern on payments informations and MOULa's security holes is very valid.

I would still prefer a solution based on hardware, like MAC addresses, as Mac_Fife suggests.

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Lyrositor

Joined: 08 Aug 2010

Posts: 719

Location: Relto, Sea of Mist

The problem with hardware is that anyone can change and thus get back into MO:ULa with a computer change, for example.

What would be useful is requiring all users who play MO:ULa to install a sort of Uru spy which monitors any change of MAC/IP address occurring on one computer or account and then sends the information to Cyan. Since people change their MAC address frequently (when they switch computers, play at a friends' house, etc.), most of this information would be useless.

However, if Cyan bans an account, their MAC address is automatically recorded each time. If the spy program ever sends in a "MAC changed!" signal, the Cyan servers will automatically search in their database of banned users to see if one user has the same MAC address as the one that just got changed. If a match is found, that new MAC address is also banned, thus preventing multiple accounts on one computer and also requiring very little input from Cyan to monitor (besides banning, as is already being done).

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Tai'lahr

Joined: 15 Mar 2007

Posts: 3215

Location: Revelations' Hood, est. 26 Feb 2007

We all know that suggestions involving additional work on Cyan's part are futile. (See Setting Expectations.) We're lucky that they're even willing to address the situation at all and they've made it clear that they depend on us to assist them in doing so.

The only solution, IMO, is for more experienced players to spend more time in the city, watching for griefers to report and offering assistance to newcomers. And, the first thing we should tell them is that they should review the Information & Resource Center section here. It includes a wonderful MOULagain User Manual AND a post titled, "What to do when I run into troublesome explorers?"

Uru is ours, now. It's up to us to make it the way we want it.

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rocketdog

Joined: 22 May 2006

Posts: 130

Location: Wisconsin

Tomala wrote:

Quote:

Then if possible, perhaps a list of said programs should be put together into a blacklist for a future client that would throw an exception if the game notices a MAC address changing program running in the background. I've had programs and installations refuse to run because it would detect something in the background that the program/installer would deem incompatible. For example when installing antivirus software it would tell me to turn off my software firewall because the program is incompatible.

Or perhaps a hardware/software survey that inspects your computer to see if it's compatible with the game and checks for those types of programs in the background.

Food for thought.

I think the Idea of putting together a list of potential programs that could hold the answer to the MAC address is a good Idea. I've looked for software to do this and have not come up with anything that looks like it will work. Could anyone here that knows of a software that has even a potential of stopping the degenerates please post them and I'll make up a list. This will need to be a reasonably priced software.

Thanks Tomala

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Tai'lahr

Joined: 15 Mar 2007

Posts: 3215

Location: Revelations' Hood, est. 26 Feb 2007

Clearly, I just wasted my time writing my above post.
I should have taken your admission of being deaf to suggestions seriously.

rocketdog wrote:

AdamJohnso wrote:
JWPlatt wrote:
rocketdog wrote:
If anyone has a better idea please post It, I’m all ears.
I did. You didn't mention it. May I assume those ears are still open?
At this point, it looks like the ears are firmly closed and that we're in full rant/rave mode. It's beginning to be difficult to have meaningful discussion when the topic is continually lost in the midst of three-post-long tirades.
You are correct

Actually, I should have just quit reading this thread when all the misspellings made my eyes bleed.

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AdamJohnso

Joined: 09 May 2006

Posts: 1274

Location: Milledgeville, GA

Not sure if he realized I was talking about him...
* image of Fry here*
... or just trolling.

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Mac_Fife

Uru Live Moderator

Joined: 10 Nov 2006

Posts: 3182

Location: Scotland

Leonardo wrote:

Cyan *may* already have a way to correlate PayPal payments to MOULa accounts.

They haven't (they told me so).

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DaVinci

Joined: 20 Aug 2007

Posts: 182

Location: 4mile dwn1200milesENE 1mile up

ROTFLMAO

I hope this thread runs longer. This is getting better than Saturday Night Live (old comedy show).
Tai'lahr, I applaud you (/me clap) I luved ur post, excellent. (/me bow).
GREIFERS RULE Exclamation

nanananah na Exclamation

Tai' refer back to page 3 of this thread Smile

. YOU rock girl Exclamation

OMG

I think I just broke a rib ROTFLMAO Very Happy

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TOOO

Joined: 05 Jun 2007

Posts: 1069

Location: Still looking for the elusive Funky Bahro.

But, in the end, the only thing you can trust is experience. Until we find a reliable software and/or hardware solution, I think the best thing to do is make full use of the /ignore feature, and encourage others to do the same (preferably through PM, so as not to alert the offender - a word I prefer over "degenerate").

My only complaint about /ignore is that the offender's avatar remains visible. Is there any remedy for this?

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