TOOO wrote:

My only complaint about /ignore is that the offender's avatar remains visible. Is there any remedy for this?

A preliminary re-write of the /ignore function which makes /ignored avatars invisible is complete, but testing it and getting it to perform properly has turned out to be a much more complicated task than anticipated. There are some 160 different scenarios that need to be looked at (avatar is /ignored in Age, avatar is /ignored mutually in Age, avatar is ignored mutually in Age and then enters another, avatar is ignored mutually in Age, enters another, comes back, meanwhile the original /ignorer has left, but then comes back, etc.), and in each of them the concern is that the function is stable, does what it is meant to, and has no weird side effects. We haven't had a good environment to do that kind of testing until comparatively recently, and we weren't far enough along when Minkata did its first big run. So things are still happening with this, and I'm hopeful that we will have tangible results to present fairly soon (if not on MOULa, then at least on Gehn), but at the moment we're not there yet.

And yes: I prefer "offender" to "degenerate" too. One can have a problem with certain behaviour without losing all respect for the human being behind it. I'd be sorry to see our response to griefing in the Cavern taken hostage by this kind of language.

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Gahlen, the ‘mute to invisible’ idea is well discussed elsewhere. So, its pro’s and con’s are not something I want to discussion here. Once implemented, we’ll see how it works. I hope it helps. We will see if griefers find novel ways to use the feature against us or not.

TOOO’s “Until we find a reliable software and/or hardware solution…” is the hope of many. However, millions of other people are pushing privacy issues and concerns. I expect our choices are the surrender of privacy in an attempt to stop griefers or privacy and the continuation of griefing. Again the age old battle of safety verses freedom that usually ends with a loss of both come into play. History is wonderfully educational.

The problem with the loss of privacy is dictators and power hungry politicians will use the technology against people. So, this battle is being fought on intellectual high ground far above our concerns within the Cavern.

----

As much as everyone has ideas, one simple fact starts to stand out in this thread. A whole bunch of players have no idea what to do when running into griefers. I think those of us having been around Uru forever have become so accustomed to knowing how to find things in this forum and knowing how things are done we forget how hard it is for new people to figure things out. We simply cannot see the blatantly obvious fact there is no link for HELP in the forum.

Perhaps the easiest thing we can do is make a section of the forum labeled HELP. Perhaps even just change the name of Information and Resources to HELP, Information and Resources. Make a top level sticky with the title HELP. Make it a short, concise index of where to get which type of help.

If a new section is made, perhaps make it read for all and for moderator posting only. This would keep it strictly on topic.

Once we get to where changes are flowing into the Cyan server, add a help button linking people to that section of the forum. Once the licensing is handled and as shards are opened the link could be in the server configuration so each shard could direct to it is specific help page.

The tutorial JW recommends could be added to that HELP section.

That so many people still do not understand how to file an abuse report in this system should tell us something is wrong with what we, the supposedly sane, are doing. Trying to fix things so the intelligently insane cannot grief us has been a stupendous and ongoing failure and waste of forum space. The crazy repeat their behavior expecting a new result with each repetition.

What can we do differently?

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Nalates - GoC - 418 - MOULagain: Nal KI#00 083 543, Nalates 111451 - Second Life: Nalates Urriah
Guild of Cartographers

What we can do differently ? uhmmm , we can think differently . Your HELP section idea is an excellent example of that .

Nev'yn wrote:

Your idea does sound reasonable to me. Perhaps GoMe could also add a special ki-mail to the ones the Cavern Criers carry for our encounters with new explorers? A "hope you never have to use this, but....", so to speak.

The GoMe team will have to discuss this, of course. (And someone will have to forward the tutorial to me, so I can create said ki-mail.) This may be only a small step in educating people to their "cavern rights" and in solving the problem. But, that being said, every project must start somewhere.

*****
Actually, some progress has be made on this front*.

A *draft* kimail is currently under review by the Messengers after the above mentioned post. Right now it sits as copy of veralun's post in the "What To Do..." thread. I've also sent a message via PM to request veralun edit the post to be more appropriate to an explorer reading it as a kimail within the cavern. (Such as #4 being quite unclear, unless you already use the forums.) I'm hoping #1 will also be changed to go into a bit more detail, plus perhaps mentioning improvements to the Ignore function are currently under development. So, in my opinion, some progress *IS* being made to "reach out" to help educate new explorers.

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KI# 14883206 | "The truth speaks for itself, I am just the messenger." -Lyta Alexander

(Nevyn's Note: Any comments or opinions, taken whole or in part, are mine and do not reflect the stance of GoMe.)

Last edited by Nev'yn on Sun Feb 26, 2012 10:46 pm; edited 1 time in total

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Mac - MOULagain KI#00004826
In the interests of the environment, this post has been constructed entirely from recycled electrons.

Nalates,

Thank you for your post! You said what I've been trying to say but you said it much more eloquently. The system that is in place now is not working.

And I agree we and the new people in game need a better and faster way of letting Cyan know what's going on in game, if they will really remove the degenerates from game that is, and I'll take them at their word. The way it's set up now is not working. The proof of that is what's still going on in the city. And URU is now open source and its up to us to improve the game. I think invisibility will help once we have it but that could be a long way off according to an earlier post.

But along with that we still need a system that discourages them from coming back. My idea of a startup donation would place a small one time burden on each good player and a large burden on each degenerates if they continue to come back. I believe this idea was not and is not an unreasonable answer to the problem.

I will be talking to an internet security expert soon, hopefully today if he has time. I'm looking for any software that would work for this situation. And I'll post his answer as soon as possible. I do agree a software fix would be the best answer we could hope for, but that doesn't look promising from everything I've looked at so far.

Tomorrow if time permits I will be making up a list of all the positive suggestions that have been posted up to now. If I haven't responded to you it's because my time is limited. But I want you to know that I'm thankful to all who are trying to help me find an answer. I have spent so much time trying to stop the people who would take this post off topic that I haven't had time to take care of the things I should have and I apologize for that. Please keep up the suggestions and If anyone knows of a software that will work or could possibly work please post it.

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Nev'yn

That sounds great. Thank you!

Mac_Fife

If I understood your name suggestion, can that be "and Help with Greafers" though as you know I would rather see it as "and Help with degenerates"?

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I prefer greifer. It's more well known around the gaming world than degenerate.

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Gahlen wrote:

I prefer "offender" to "degenerate" too. One can have a problem with certain behaviour without losing all respect
for the human being behind it. I'd be sorry to see our response to griefing in the Cavern taken hostage by this
kind of language.

Yes ... Thank you Gahlen ...

... and if there'd be a need to label them then Tomala's reasoning could be
taken into consideration ...

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janaba MOULa KI #154268, Minkata KI #4525 , Gehn KI # 16392, TOC KI # 86963
MO:ULa is

@Mac - Just renaming would help, imo. I'll take whatever we can get.

@Others - Adding just the word help fits in with the title as it is now Information and Resources. Help is more general. I think a Help with _____ would be unending, so unsuitable for a title.

Also a business does not want to splash problems across the headlines of a site. Since griefing seems to be a minor problem in the Cavern such prominence in a headline seems out of place to me.

@Rocket, if there were a software or hardware solution, it would be in use in numerous places.

I think most of us agree a fee or other cost is a deterrent to griefers. When closing an account means some real loss, it will be a deterrent. It certainly is in SL. But, you seem to constantly miss the point that it is not going to happen. Until Cyan wants to be or can be more engaged in the game, it just isn't going to happen.

I'm not at all sure we can have a better or faster way to complain. For now all we can hope for is a bit of improved communication to make it easier for people to find the needed information.

[/end @]

It has been some time since I looked at the classroom. We might change information there to direct players to the Help, Info, & Resources section of the forum.

On our own we could post the information in the various Hood imagers and Guild Pubs. That will be an ongoing task for the users to handle.

_________________
Nalates - GoC - 418 - MOULagain: Nal KI#00 083 543, Nalates 111451 - Second Life: Nalates Urriah
Guild of Cartographers

_________________
Mac - MOULagain KI#00004826
In the interests of the environment, this post has been constructed entirely from recycled electrons.

Why are you all fighting - keep on smiling and get a hug from someone who loves you - give a hug to someone you love. please stop negative talking in here as well. Thank you.

Love from Shani