I've been thinking...
If you could find a breathing device (like the Maintainer helmet), couldn't you have completely underwater Ages?
That would be awesome...

Mmmm - submarines, underwater habitats. Sounds good to me

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If at first you don't succeed, don't try parachute jumping !

I've had an idea for an age thats mostly underwater that I wanted to create for UU, but unfortunately my 3d skills aren't great. Plus I can't really afford some of the programs needed to create them.

I get to a point and get frustrated with the programs I do have. I stopped even trying to create it and am just messing around with the programs I have.

I got my idea from rivens underwater scenes. Plus the rides in riven. I've had it forever. Its hard for me to discribe, but I'll try.

Never really figured out the puzzles just some ideas

you would start out on the surface on a small island with ruins of non D'ni origin. Once you figured out the sun puzzle on the island you would then go down an elevator. You would end up in a large platform with water all around. Near you theres a console. Yup another puzzle. once you figured it out you come to a large door at the end of a hall. On the door are D'ni symbols(what kind of symbols never got that far) figure them out and the door opens.
The door opens into a large room thats a cross between nuclear reactor control room and a fantsy library with lots of books. some of the books are clickable with clues to the next puzzles. One thing that you will notice(thats if your paying attention) is a red light blinking on the console. If you press it large doors will open all around you and you will notice you are inside a large glass dome thats underwater with a door on one side(thats locked of course) The console is the next puzzle to figure out. Plus there would be some lights switches and other buttons for outside lights.

one hint turning the outside lights on will bring the locals(fish)and give you nice views of your suroundings. From here I was thinking of maybe 4 more puzzles that would bring you to the end in which you could link out or go back and have the age as a book.
I was think that this age was going to be for everyone. once it was solved(by whomever). Once it was solved anyone could take a ride and check out the scenery. it would have large fish like in riven. some more likeable then others. Of course there would be cute ones too

well thats it. not great and needs work, but its something I would love to make.

I also had an idea for a heek table tournament age that one of the guild leaders tried to create to help with the problems of the D'ni.

Sounds like a great idea! You should post it over at The Guild of Age Crafters.

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.reprad kenen nahr
.redoyhah pradteegahl kenen shin b'hahrten gah b'foles

KI# 45434

Absolutely! Underwater ages! I'll see you guys down there!

Seriously, tho, that begs the buoyancy question -- and I don't know much about the physics engine currently in use for URU Live -- is buoyancy a feature? What about water pressure? (not being a smart aleck, honestly asking)

Hmmm, puzzles with meniscuses (menisci?), surface tension, currents (already had one of those), undertow, jet streams...

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This is fun -- just thinking some more about this (and wishing I knew more about physics engines) --

While buoyancy is about the mass of the object, it's also about the object's size (and therefore the mass of the water displaced).

Because if something far more dense than the avatar is released by said avatar as they are swimming, that thing's going to plummet to the bottom, as opposed to the surface.

How about having two gravities as a workaround? And then determining which gravity wins (and by how much) by the ratio of mass to volume, maybe?

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But then we'd still have to have a third gravity for normal gravitational function.

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For cowards die a thousand deaths, while heros die but one.

Well, unless they're playing video games, in which case heros die a lot too.

I think it's getting a little too complicated. I know that on Kadish the leaves fall at a slower rate than I do. I don't think they have multiple gravities. I think the code for the leaf is just different. This could easiely be done for objects released by an avi in water.
Not knowing how the physics engine works myself I can't say for sure but I think the gravity is set for each object. When the other KI versions were used on the other shards an avi could stay floating in the air by typing /float (i think it was) while others were still subject to the usual gravity rules. The float command could have been done simply by locking the avi's position but then there was fly mode.
I know there are ppl trying their hand at writing an age maybe they could provide an answer?

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Maratanos wrote:

But then we'd still have to have a third gravity for normal gravitational function.

Hi, Maratanos.

No, I wasn't too clear in what I was saying. We're only looking at two forces, the force of gravity and the buoyant force (setting aside the normal force for now)

Those are the two -- gravity pulls you down and the buoyant force pushes you up.

Which creates a net (resulting) force, either up or down.

(continued in next post)

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Last edited by Otter on Sat Jul 08, 2006 8:12 pm; edited 1 time in total

Sudre wrote:

I think it's getting a little too complicated. I know that on Kadish the leaves fall at a slower rate than I do. I don't think they have multiple gravities. I think the code for the leaf is just different. This could easiely be done for objects released by an avi in water.
Not knowing how the physics engine works myself I can't say for sure but I think the gravity is set for each object. When the other KI versions were used on the other shards an avi could stay floating in the air by typing /float (i think it was) while others were still subject to the usual gravity rules. The float command could have been done simply by locking the avi's position but then there was fly mode.
I know there are ppl trying their hand at writing an age maybe they could provide an answer?

Hi, Sudre.

Just kinda talking through this, because I am really enjoying this conversation. You probably know all this, I'm just trying to explain my thinking a little better.

Other than leaves and pieces of paper, everything in our day-to-day falls at the same rate. (I'm going to wrap the air resistance issue into the buoyant force since I'm restricting what I'm talking about to strictly up-and-down forces. And I'm not even going to touch the normal forces here. )

Since air is a fluid (just as water is), there is a buoyant force everywhere. So we are living at the bottom of an ocean of air. Air is a lot less dense than water, so it provides far less of a buoyant force. Darn near almost nothing in the air goes up instead of down.

When you say

Quote:

I don't think they have multiple gravities. I think the code for the leaf is just different.

How would the code for the leaf be different? Which is not being argumentative, but to say if not one (net) force or two opposing forces (which would yield a net force, which you could effectively call a different gravity), how else could the code for the leaf be different? I might be getting confused by semantics.

So I would think, were I the coder, there would be two options. If I am anticipating that there will only be in-air gameplay, then I would write in one gravity for feathers, pieces of paper, and leaves and another for everything else.

If, however, I were anticipating that there would also be extensive underwater scenarios (and I had supportive employers who wanted to make this stuff as realistic as possible), then I might choose to use both the buoyant force and the gravitational force throughout (if it could be written elegantly enough so as to still be efficient).

You can always do shortcuts, I suppose. You could define a balloon filled with helium to (when held onto by avatar) stay at the height defined by the string, and when released to float upwards at a certain rate. But that definition would be game-specific, and perhaps ennabled by the physics engine, not necessarily defined there.

I wasn't here back when /float was an option (but wow would that be fun) but that would similarly (I think) be coding the avvie to stay at a certain height (or change where the ground effectively was for that avvie even tho it doesn't look that way, visually).

You mention that people are writing ages -- do you mean literally just the ages themselves or working on physics engines as well?

I'd really like to hear more about both the physics engines and incorporating them into the Ages. Please.

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Ha! I just remembered there was a sub on rails in one of the Myst games! I can't remember which one it was, maybe Riven?

A whole underwater age, not a bad idea!

Waldo (baddata6)

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Riven had three underwater pictures. The sub on rails, the minecart on rails, and the room full of whales. Stoneship had a really cool room too.

But all the other games didn't have any underwater. You're right! We need more underwater scenery!

I am drawing ages at the moment i did one with water floating above the ground! and some sort of buildings that keep the water above!

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The harder an end is to face, the more hope we can bring with us to the next beginning.

Hi, leander.

Do you have them on a website -- maybe we could go take a look?

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