BAD wrote:

You guys amaze me.

You amaze me as well. You are getting angry over nothing, as no official statement has been issued regarding the UU shards.

BAD wrote:

Well I guess if you look at it as a purly technical issue than yes UruLive will be better than UU. Thanks.

You are welcome! I am looking at it from a technical and community aspect. There is nothing so far which one can do on a UU shard that could not be done in the new Uru Live. Once we actually see the new Uru Live, that might change. Until that time, it would not be reasonable to think the new product would be less capable than the old one.

BAD wrote:

Now the question is whether everyone is going to like the new better product

Exactly! So why are you feeling the need to continue arguing? Nothing has been announced and no one has tried the new Uru Live yet. Should we not all wait and see what happens?

BAD wrote:

Oh and thanks for the comment hinting that we only want the independants alive for our AdminKI's. Yes your right that is all we care about. Thanks for the vote of confidence.

I spoke of that which one could do on UU which one can theorize one would not be able to do on Uru Live. That is the only difference that I can think of at the moment. You can read anything you so wish into my statements, but know that it is you who are saying it, and not I. Please do not put your words into my mouth. I believe people have done that to you before, and from what I recall you did not like it much either.

After rereading your post I see I did make an error in reading into your post. I appologize. You didn't even mention the adminKI.

I think I will refrain from posting in this thread as well as I can not subjectively respond here.

I love UU and am excited about UruLive as well. I will never understand the sentiment to get rid of UU. You might as well say we should get rid of my childhood pet just because it is old.

It's not about what's better. It's not about what is best for the community. It is about losing something you have worked on so hard on being thrown to the side because it won't be as good as the next thing down the pike. I guess some people don't feel that way.

Have at it folks.

BAD wrote:

Well if you wish to ignore me and my opinions fine. I am angry. You are basically saying that Untìl Uru is useless and is someohow threatening to UruLive. What did you expect?

That you tried and proved my point wrong, while you just started arguing over a word. :)

I do not wish to ignore you, BAD, and I'm really sorry (and I mean, really) if what I and others said hurt you so much. I called me out of this discussion because I felt you were too angry and I wasn't making my point as clear as I wanted.

UU (or someting similar with the new engine) will not be useless once Live starts again. Be it for fan made ages or for those who want their "own little space to play uninterrpted by the storylines and large amounts of players" as you said (which doesn't seem something "for the good of the communty... oh well it doesn't matter), UU has a reason to exist.

And this is what scares me.

Because if UU has a reason to exist, people have reasons to go there, and this could harm Live. I know it's a fairly small risk... or maybe I'm just paranoid, but hey, it's as small a risk as seeing a game closed before it even opens.

I don't want to get rid of UU. If I argued about that word "Untìl" is just because I wanted to show you that UU is not to be taken for granted in the future, and that it wouldn't be a betrayal on Cyan's part, if it was put to bed.

I was angry because people would feel backstabbed if Cyan did not let them keep their "own little space" - while they should just be happy to have had UU in the first place.

I'm not saying this again just for the sake of kind words, I really mean it: I hope that UU will live and that I'll be proven wrong about my fears.

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Morningstar - KI#1053460
Please avoid drinking the lake water.

When I originally started this poll I had a notion that it would provide a method of measuring support for the private shards.

Cyan are not at this time and have not for a while issued new Kagi Keys and without them everybody is crowding into D'mala with increasing issues on crashing and lag.

I personally believe some of these issues are even driving people away.

There’s been a lot of (lets call it) lively debate on the semantics of the title Untìl Uru I would put down to the fact that we have no definitive position from Cyan.

As is the case in past issues "The called" have read huge amounts into Cyans lack of response when really they just have other things on their mind and don't see it as an issue at all.

There are deep and strong passions running here with one underlying current a love and a desire to see the deep city of Uru live again.

I am glad to see cjkelly and Bad at least agreeing to disagree I have seen contributions from both you guys support the community during its time in the wilderness.

I am as adamant as any that the new incantation of Live should thrive and survive but like bad I have a special place in my heart for the place that gave me a home during the dark times.

I can see how some will be ambivalent to the fate of the private shards and will look on this thread as nothing more than a side story, as it probably is.

It does however look as if some people see the private shards as threat to Uru Live and I would suggest that this is at best an error of judgement.

The private shards cannot threaten Uru Live any more than original copies of the cd stand alone (prime) version will.

In time the private shards will drift away from the new community that will become the core of live, and this is how it should be.

Again all I am seeking is a show of support for those places that themselves supported the community until the new can stand strong.

I am going to seek a definitive statement from Cyan (Who must be the final arbitrators as they own the IP rights) If they say that new access to the private shards is a non starter then we will have to become a shrinking community.

But I would like to think that they (Cyan) could see the private shards as a place to nurture new writing talent a place to grow the people they will need in the future if Live is to grow at the rate they are predicting.

To that end I am appealing to Cyan to resolve the issue arising out of a lack of a method for new and returning users to visit the private shards.

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I think any of us who've spent the last couple years on UU would miss it. I certainly would.

But continuing UU would not help UruLive, Cyan or GameTap. It's bad marketing to have two flavors of the same brand available through different channels at the same time. At best it would dilute UruLive's point-of-difference, at worst it would confuse the Uru brand for new users. Especially in a tight, competitive market where FPS is king, Uru needs to maximize its uniqueness in a single channel.

But all these arguments are moot. The excellent work of the shard admins notwithstanding, UU is Cyan's IP and Cyan's copyright.

Its future is Cyan's call.

I would answer tkwiggins in two ways.

1 How many flavors of FPS exist. (rhetorical)

2 I would suggest the first point of contact with private shards would be the community on Uru Live so how can the dilution occur.

For most of the life of Untìl Uru to date there have been three flavours of Uru available Prime (stand alone), The Private Shards running Plasma server (The Private Shards running Untìl Uru) and TPOTS (The private alcugs shards running The Path of the Shell).

Are you suggesting that Uru Live will not be able to stand a little competition from a few enthusiasts. Who will probably be amongst the strongest advocates for the game.

Are you sugesting that D'mala becomes a huge waiting room of players waiting for an invitation to the beta test party. The die hards (I count myself here) have been calling desperately for new content to prevent the demise of The Private Shards running Untìl Uru.

The faithful have seen users come and go for the want of somthing new. I am seeing a fall in D'mala attendance (This may just be my observerd impression).

I have faith in both and that's why I keep beating a drum here. I will atempt to produce a measured polite counter argument to anyone who can rationalise a reason for not having the private shards.

I hope to win people to my position by debate not insult them to submition.

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Personally, considering that Cyan is going to tr to intergrate any Fan-made ages into Live, then why still have UU around?

Until Uru, is just that. Until.

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-Hastin Zylstra

Sounds like Until is trying to compete with Live 2.

See, this is why they have lawyers & stuff.

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It is interesting to see the dichotomy of opinions here.

For those that want to move on to Uru Live, and leave Until Uru in the dust, you are free to do so. But you are not free to tell those that want to keep Until Uru alive that they are wrong for wanting to keep Until Uru. They are no more wrong in their desire to keep Until Uru than you are to want to move to Uru Live and abandon Until Uru.

For those that want to keep Until Uru alive, you have that right. But you have to understand that many saw Until Uru as a temporary thing, and hoped and prayed for the miracle that Uru Live would someday restart. That miracle came about because of the fan support of Until Uru, the code fixes the private Admins sent to Cyan, the help of an as yet unnamed benefactor that got the need for Kagi Keys removed and the D'Mala Shard set up, and Cyan finding new backers for a return to Uru Live.

But, all of you, you cannot make others feel tha way you do. This is a free world, not a dictatorship, unless Cyan is that dictator (no offense meant). It is up to Cyan if the Until Uru private shards stay, along with Until Uru, and nothing we say, any of us, will change that fact.

I personally hope that Cyan will allow those that love Until Uru the ability to do so, and to either remove the requirement for the Kagi Keys on the Until Uru product, or keep the Authentication server going and release more Kagi Keys. The fans that supported Until Uru are the PRIMARY reason that the possibility of a new Uru Live is even a possibility.

Many people believe in the concept of Community, and there is a Community in each private Until Uru Shard. That will never change, as it is the Community that made Uru Live and Until Uru so desired in a world where they are unique among all the shooter MMOG's. It is that community that makes UU and UL2 what they are, and attractive to so many people.

But I caution all of you to understand that in life, Communities are dynamic - they grow, change, split, and move on according to their own desires. None of this is wrong, it is just life, and people choosing their own paths. Both Uru Live 2 and Until Uru are viable products, if Cyan decides to allow Until Uru to continue. And while all of us may want to be on the Uru Live product, you cant blame those to whom the REAL COMMUNITIES on Until Uru will always bring them back to their home shards.

Lets all agree to thank Cyan for this phenominal gift of Uru, our Uru that we built with their framework, and allow those that want to be Uru Live only to do so, and those that want to live in Until Uru and visit Uru Live to do so also.

Only Cyan can make the final decision. But as many people supported Uru Live 1 and the communities built there, they waited and hoped and when Until Uru came along they moved their communities to it. There they added to the communities, and built them stronger, and have a lot invested. I pray Cyan does not force them to choose Live over their communities.

I for one, choose my community over any other product. Friends and family and community are more than a game. Friends and family and community are what I like in the Uru series products, and I will not abandon them for a newer, nicer game without them. I will support Uru Live, but I will NOT abandon my community in Until Uru.

That is my right, to feel that way and to support Private Shards, just as it is the right of those of you that want to move to the new Uru Live 2, to do so also. This is not an either / or proposition. At this point Cyan has not made it so. Let us wait for this discussion until and IF they do.

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If you cant find me, just follow your imagination wherever it takes you, and Ill be waiting there for you.....

Last edited by Mejan on Tue May 16, 2006 12:14 am; edited 1 time in total

(plays the world's smallest violin)

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I plan on financially supporting URU Live in any manner I need to do whether that be on a shard that charges or belonging to Gametap. I will spend most of my time on URU Live.

That said, I want to be able to go to our private shard too. D'mala never has felt like home like the first URU online did. Our UU shard does feel like home and we do have a close knit community in The Meeting Place and meet regularly once a week at a time that accomodates both USA and Europe members.

I know beta testers will see bugs and crashes as URU Live is developed and tweaked but I felt very bad about trying to give those I invited into D'mala to have any kind of experience.

Six of the first twelve I invited never could even get in and no customer service ever got back to them. Others that I invited came and crashed so many times they gave up in disgust. There was never a real attempt to try to stabalize the shard but by golly engineer time was spent so the userKIs were not usable on D'mala.

It would have been more helpful to retain new people had they been allowed on the more stable private shards to begin with. At least the shard admins could have helped when problems arose and no one was around to fix them. I bet they would have worked to get those six people in so they could have had a great first impression of URU.

I know that our TMP community will be spending a lot of time helping others as well as beta testing in URU Live when we are chosen. That is what we did in the first URU online and I expect many of us will enjoy continuing doing that.

There is room for both, the new and the old. No one is asking anyone who wants to push forward and does not want to look back to do so. It amazes me that those people wish to deny those of us who do want to keep the shards the ability to do that when they no longer care about UU. Its no skin off their nose and I can not think of anyone in our shards community that will not be supporting Cyan as they move forward.

Here's to the new URU Live and here's to the Until URU shards. May they both continue for a long, long time. A heart felt thank you goes to Cyan, the fans and the people who kept us alive all this time.

Last edited by june_uruTMP on Mon May 15, 2006 7:17 pm; edited 1 time in total

Hastin wrote:

Personally, considering that Cyan is going to tr to intergrate any Fan-made ages into Live, then why still have UU around?

Until Uru, is just that. Until.

There has to be a testing environment for fanmade ages. If UU shards can serve as test servers they would have a purpose. Due to future incompatibilities however this is unlikely. So I wonder how Cyan is going to solve that.

Age Builders need a place where they can instantly test new builds of their ages. And since there will be no single player version of Uru Live that has to be a shard.

Here we see the balance of the argument Megan makes an open and clear statement emphasizing a reasonable stand.

And Corona representing the opposition exercises a right to use satire. Very poor old and dated satire with clear intent to offend.

Please note I am offended. Deeply offended.

The addition of an emoticon might have gone some way to show that this was a vain atempt at humour as it is it just looks hurtful.

As for the earlier statement from Corona

Who or what is this Until thats going to compete with Live 2? I want them stopped. Now they clearly have so much power you feel that Cyan need lawyers and stuff to stop them.

I am possative that there's nobody that supports Untìl Uru that would want to see Live 2 fail.

If you can't keep your debate civil or refreshingly humerous please take it elsewhere.

[Edit ]
I spend too long thinking about my responses and while I was writing the above June and D'Lanor have both added to the debate.

I can only thank them for their support.

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Hey Corona! Nice to see ya! (/wave)
You've been here 3 days and already offending folks! That's my boy!

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MOULa KI 211837

I am of very mixed mind and heart about the future of Until Uru.

On one hand, Cyan said right from the future that it was 'until'. It was a bandaid over our broken hearts against the hope that Live might one day return. They've gone above and beyond their original promise to keep UU going, even in the wake of closing down.

On the other hand, there are close-knit communities that have grown in UU, and people who have poured time and effort into their shards and UU development. They've gone above and beyond in bringing us the nuts and bolts of UU, even in the wake of uncertainty.

The balance is between the two, acknowledging the work & 'family' in UU, while still supporting and emphasising Live.

Given that there are no new Kagi keys, shards are self administered, and the auth server isn't hosted by Cyan, I don't see a conflict in keeping UU shards running. It can't lure new people away from Live, it doesn't threaten Live as an entiry, it is self contained.

If people have both UU and Live available, and they choose not to participate in Live, I see that as an indication that they most likely wouldn't have participated in Live anyhow, in the absence of UU.

So, if Chip is willing to keep tabs on the auth server, and shard admins are willing to live with being low man on the priority totem pole, after Live, then I don't se any reason why shards can't keep going after Live's launch. It'd be a bit like having your own private instance of all the ages.

But, if Cyan decides thats not something they can get behind... then there's not much we can do about it. Sure, we can wail and gnash our teeth and agonize over the unfairness of it all. It wasn't fair when we lost Live originally, either, and look how that turned out

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Officially bonked R.E.B.E.L.
Falling Man Group Secretary
Storyteller & Creatrix
MOULAgain Houligan KI#00001498