JKla,

I take no offence from what Corona said. Corona and I knew each other when I was at the Guild of Greeters, and he is plain spoken in his opinions.

I feel his comment was made about my opinion of keeping Until Uru running in the wake of Uru Live 2 coming out; and not a comment about me. As you mentioned, he IS allowed an opinion; but you are also right, some explaination of what he meant might have caused less offense.

In a discussion such as this, very like the discussion of the Liasons, there are two sides and very little middle ground. I try to find the middle ground, where one can chose which way to go and everyone is right in their own choice and no one tells others what they can do or what they can feel. This is where "Bridge Builders" and "Greeters" are in their Forte.

Maybe we can all learn to voice our opinions, and at the same time choose our words carefully, to cause less offense. As the D'ni said "Twice read, and once written." It was meant for different purposes, but it fits well in any intellectual discussion.

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If you cant find me, just follow your imagination wherever it takes you, and Ill be waiting there for you.....

I haven't waded through all pages of this thread but wanted to stick in my 2 cents...

Quote:

But when UruLive returns UU should go.

I could not agree with this statement less, if I tried. What some, here, don't seem to realize, is that Uru Live, is being set up for broadband users, period; no dial-up support. Those of us that have no access to broadband service, aren't really looking forward to the bright shiny new version of Uru, since we are being left out of it. UU is all we will have. Having been through Prologue, I know what long waits are, trying to link to another Age. If this is the option for Live, it is not a very good one...

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Ian A. Pertwee in Cavern - KI# 374362
Ahnotahm - Il quartiere
Not talking as a mod unless I say so

this thread is about whether the uu shards should be accessable to ALL explorers - those who've been there all along, those who where in the original live and who are just returning as well as those who've just heard the call and are new to the cavern.

off topic: i can see where uu will still have it's place when urulive returns. ie, for those that don't have broadband (altho, it has been stated that dialup should work with urulive - it's just going to take a long time to get the updates), for those that want to continue using the userki and be subject to the wonders that can be done with the adminki, as well as testing grounds for bug fixes.

it's up to cyan whether it will be allowed to continue or not - any discussion about it is kind of pointless and can quickly turn into an argument. which is something we don't really need

on topic: i think it would be nice for those who don't currently have access to the fan-run shards to have it. there's nothing like being able to get a cool bird's eye view of the city and the different ages and you certainly can't beat some of the mods the adminki can add to the atmosphere!!

we really had a terrific time playing in the winterwonderland that was provided on new years eve!



again, this issue is up to cyan to decide. all we can do is tell them what we think.

Rex Havoc wrote:

What some, here, don't seem to realize, is that Uru Live, is being set up for broadband users, period; no dial-up support.

The fact is that online games, like Uru and others, just aren't designed for dialup. Dialup, while still the only thing available for some people, is not the industry standard anymore. It's a bit like kvetching that your favorite music is being released on CD, when all you have is a cassette deck. Yeah, it sucks, but it's not abnormal, or a deliberate slight. Even UU isn't designed for dialup, dialup people just learned to deal.

And, if you read what Moke has said, dialup uses will be able to to connect to Uru Live, they will have to deal with the slow load times, inhibited graphics, and lack of technical support, that comes with using an outdated technology.

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Officially bonked R.E.B.E.L.
Falling Man Group Secretary
Storyteller & Creatrix
MOULAgain Houligan KI#00001498

My original reasoning behind starting this poll/thread was to allow the called to voice opinions on availability of the Kagi Key.

Always with the understanding that the final decision rests with Cyan.

If we are to publicly air our feelings on this there will always be some who let their passion run wild and resort to inappropriate postings.

I have where possible interjected comments and things appear to have remained calm. I hope things stay this way.

I want to demonstrate that despite a passion for all things Myst/Uru we can hold a civil debate.

Please consider the poll as a show of hands letting Cyan see how many users want to see access restored to the private shards for the new invitees. If you don’t want access to happen don't vote.

The choices are only to reflect your status.
This just splits this group into three sub groups

1) Those that already have a Kagi Key and have used it regularly
2) Those that visited Live but did not get a Kagi Key
3) Those visiting who came to the party late and want a Kagi Key or see some other means of accessing the private shards

It is up to Cyan how they address this they could just simply choose to ignore the issue, they could re-issue Kagi-Keys as paid or free, they could open up the invite system to include the private shards,

They could tie private shard access to ownership of a Live2 login (I am personally against this last one as it could probably cause exclusion when it comes to dial-up users as they choose not to join on grounds of update delays that may also apply to the private shards).

I would suspect membership would have some sort of requirement broadband access (note this is speculation only).

I would notice that the only calls to keep the private shards from the invitee players seem to come from those that would see the private shards go away and never come back.

D'Lanor raised a technical point about compatibility that will need to be addressed at some point but until Live 2 is anything more than something in the future we will not be able to address these issues.

I have made it clear from the start that I personally would like to see everyone have access to the private shards (at the discretion of the shard owners) there are thriving communities on these shards and we are already seeing D’mala attendance fall.

It would be interesting to see the numbers but I appreciate this is business sensitive data. We were all however aware of the peak that occurred when the Teledhan Dock Bharo stone became available. You couldn't move (literally because of lag) for users crashing in excited abandon to desktop and coming back only to try again.

I hope this clarifies my position and reasons.

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JKla wrote:

Please consider the poll as a show of hands letting Cyan see how many users want to see access restored to the private shards for the new invitees. If you don’t want access to happen don't vote.
The choices are only to reflect your status.

The question asked was

Quote:

Do you support returnee and new member access to the UU private shards

The only answers possible are variations on YES. If you do not provide a NO answer, the poll is meaningless, as the status of those who would vote NO is not being reflected.

I am not advocating voting either way. I am just observing that the votes of those who might not agree and would say NO (for whatever reasons) are being ignored. This makes this a one-sided poll which is not really useful for much, as the data is incomplete.

I didn't vote cause I didn't understand the question but I have always hoped that The D'mala membership data could be exported to the UU authorization server so that all could experience the wonders of other shards.

No problem CJ a show of hands poll is a way of gauging interest without being contencious.

It's a little like going to a meeting standing at the front and shouting

"Can all those that want to come for a party put thier hands up"

If enough people put their hands up you say ok "lets have a party".

If only 5 put thier hands up you say "sorry guys not enough interest".

If 15 show an interest you say "ok guys back to my place".

If a hundered put thier hands up you start looking for a bigger venue.

In a show of hands if you don't want to go to the party fair enough I'm not bothered I will listen to your arguments for not holding the party but primarily the first thing I want to know is how big is my interest group.

It's a poll as a data gathering exercise generaly if you don't allow questions and comments people who may have been interested may walk away. Or may say they are comming wthout fully understanding.

I thought people would be familiar with this concept. If anybody wants a discussion on democracy then fair do's but I don't think this is the place. I am keen not to have this drift off subject.

Getting back to the Vote

"How many here support continued and increased access private shards"

From the poll Cyan (who can see this) can say Oh there's a bunch of guys there jumping up and down waving.

On the other hand it could have stayed as just me and they could have said "look at that one guy shouting on his own".

And that would have also been a fair comment.

Hey it's an open party you can come if you want and if your not interested or you want your own party somewhere else I am happy with that.

Hey come up with an alternative party I may say "ok my place is rubbish cj has come up with an alternative thats better".

I am not presuming to tell you anything so please don't take offence. I just want to know if I am on my own.

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JKla wrote:

I am not presuming to tell you anything so please don't take offence. I just want to know if I am on my own.

It seemed to me it would be advantageous to know that it is 85 out of a total number, so one could gauge the percentage of support. As you are not seeking that type of data, it appears that my comment on the lack of a NO option is irrelevant. Please accept my apologies.

Apology accepted.

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Ja'de wrote:

I didn't vote cause I didn't understand the question but I have always hoped that The D'mala membership data could be exported to the UU authorization server so that all could experience the wonders of other shards.

I think that is the basis of this thread. JKla is trying to see if others among us want to keep continued access to the Until Uru Shards, that is Private Shards run by many people, and not by Cyan.

Right now you need a Kagi Key, which has been unavailable for months to access these Shards. That being said, it also takes the volunteering of time, server and other resources of Chip, a Cyan Employee to run the Authentication Server.

If others are to obtain access to the UU Shards, it would take issuing more Kagi Keys AND Chip continuing to run the Auth Server OR Changing the system so the Kagi Keys and Authentication Server are not needed at all. This would take more up front work, but would require less overall resources, and would allow everyone access to all the Until Uru servers.

If we all write to Cyan, and ask for some manner of access to the UU Shards for those without Kagi Keys, it may eventually get an answer and start them working on a solution.

Recently, it was announced in C|NET NEWS that Uru Live was returning from the dead, and that it was the continuous support of all of us that made it possible. Maybe Cyan would be willing to allow total access to all Until Uru Shards to thank us all for our support and making Uru Live 2 a possibility.

The pertinent part of the article is:

"Many online games have crashed and burned, but the situation with Uru is unusual in that it was the "Uru Live" community that convinced GameTap the game was worth getting behind.

That's because the community has stayed alive and active in the two years since "Uru Live" died, mainly through an unsupported freeware program called "Until Uru" that Cyan made available to anyone who wanted to host versions of it on their own servers.

One of the reasons we were so attracted to 'Uru Live' for GameTap is that it had this persistent group that kept it alive during the dark days of it not being a product," said Ricardo Sanchez, GameTap's vice president of content. "There's a community that would love to see it brought back."

Indeed, some fans were so insistent on continuing their "Uru Live" experience, even in the game's absence, that in the weeks and months following the shutdown of "Uru Live," groups of several hundred rabid fans set up small-scale versions of the game in two virtual worlds, There.com and "Second Life." "

To read the entire article, use this link :

http://news.com.com/Online+game+rising+from+the+dead/2100-1043_3-6073611.html

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If you cant find me, just follow your imagination wherever it takes you, and Ill be waiting there for you.....

I had allways been given to believe that Chip (who runs the authentication server) was a former employee of Cyan.

As usuall I am open to correction on this.

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It was my understanding that there are 2 different authentication servers. I do not think Kagi keys are needed anymore. Just an update to the other authentication servers database or for all shards to go through the D'mala authentication server.