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PostPosted: Thu Jan 07, 2010 7:30 am 
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Not really a "on-topic" question but Paradox are you guys finally going to do away with ACLscripting and support Python based Game Logic? I know things looked to be headed that way eight or nine months ago when I last trolled that forum.

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PostPosted: Thu Jan 07, 2010 5:15 pm 
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I think the goal is to support both when we get Blender 2.5/2.6 stuff organised. :)


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PostPosted: Thu Jan 07, 2010 10:23 pm 
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Good to hear.

OH and to anyone that hasn't taken a look see at the new blender version let me just say...........

[spoiler]It's not a tushie ugly nightmare anymore! :D :lol: [/spoiler]

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PostPosted: Thu Jan 07, 2010 10:30 pm 
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Really? Does that mean it's a little more user-friendly and intuitive?
I'd really like to learn it, but found it hard to remember steps because it was, well.. anti-intuitive.

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PostPosted: Thu Jan 07, 2010 10:42 pm 
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Tai'lahr wrote:
Really? Does that mean it's a little more user-friendly and intuitive?
I'd really like to learn it, but found it hard to remember steps because it was, well.. anti-intuitive.


Indeed it will be. We'll be able to create custom GUI menus and interfaces designed specifically for age creation, plus many other things.

If any of you haven't seen the discussion about Blender 2.5 Alpha0 on the GoW, here's a link:

Blender 2.5 Alpha0 Discussion

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PostPosted: Thu Jan 07, 2010 10:44 pm 
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:lol: It's still Blender with all of the complex bits and bobs, but it looks sooo much better. all of the buttons are easier to read and the layout isn't 1980's vintage.

Pictures

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PostPosted: Thu Jan 07, 2010 10:55 pm 
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MustardJeep wrote:
:lol: It's still Blender with all of the complex bits and bobs, but it looks sooo much better. all of the buttons are easier to read and the layout isn't 1980's vintage.

Pictures


Yeah, they finally rewrote the window manager, which was basically interface over interface over interface in the previous versions. It was quite shocking to read about.

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PostPosted: Sun Feb 21, 2010 11:27 am 
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Whilyam wrote:
Actually, it seems Drizzle is the way. Short of building an in-game Age-downloading/finding service, an external Age manager is the most effective way of allowing people control over what Ages they see in the game.


I look at it this way: Drizzle is a way, and - for the moment - the only way available. (If there are other Drizzle-like programs out there I don't know about, please enlighten me!)

But, let's take a long, cold, hard look at what Drizzle is (even if it's only from my point of view):

First and foremost, Drizzle is a hack. There: it's been said. Does it hurt Cyan? Well, now that MOULagain is out, the answer is: yes. Why? Because it distracts from MOUL - and uses Cyan's own software to do it.
And then, we have this little gem from Myst Community:
http://www.mystcommunity.com/board/inde ... opic=35060 (scroll down)

"Moulagain has no fan Ages, no Myst5, no Crowthistle, etc. And Moulagain is transient: once Cyan pulls the plug again, everyone is screwed. So Drizzle continues pretty much unaffected by it." Sigh. ddb, you really shouldn't say things like that - especially on a site that calls itself Myst Community!

However, Drizzle does have a couple of things going for it: obviously, the access to Fan Ages. Also, the Minkata sparklie works! Now, how was Drizzle able to pull that off, when Cyan couldn't?
The drawbacks? Well, unless you're using a shard, you're all alone. Also, the Pod Ages bahro cave is all connected, so you can - but shouldn't - get all the wedges in one shot. And that still isn't fixed. The same goes for Delin/Tsogal and The Path of the Shell Ages. (Also, the 14 marker missions in the Great Zero are missing.)

Next: does Drizzle help Cyan? Yes: because it draws attention to several Cyan products: Uru:CC (obviously), Myst V, Crowthistle and Hex Isle (and with any luck, someday RealMyst). However, it's still competing with MOULagain. You see the problem?

In conclusion - Drizzle is useful, and there's much Cyan can learn from it. But it tends to divide the Myst Community (and not just the website!) - and that's the one thing you Don't Want To Do. In other words, you should be looking for a way for Drizzle to help Cyan - not hinder it.

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PostPosted: Sun Feb 21, 2010 12:02 pm 
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TOOO: The community has been divided for /years/ long before Drizzle even came out.

On that note, guess what else is a hack? PyPRP. What else is a hack? OfflineKI, what else is a hack? libPlasma. What else is a hack? PlasmaShop. What else is a hack? Every single fan age that exists. What else is a hack Uru Library Manager...


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PostPosted: Sun Feb 21, 2010 12:24 pm 
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kaelisebonrai wrote:
What else is a hack? Every single fan age that exists.

If somebody builds an age from scratch in Blender, then obviously it is not a hack. Are you saying that all fan ages have been built by hacking/modding Cyan files?
There is a tool for converting Blender files to a format that Uru:CC understands. Why is that a 'hack'? It's likely to be based on knowledge gained from hacking Cyan's files, but why is it a hack in itself?

Or do you mean 'hack' as in a quick hack, 'some code that I wrote on my lunch break', poor quality?

At least where I come from it is perfectly legal to have a look inside your own stuff in order to find out how they work. A lot of progress would be brought to a screeching halt if such analyses were to be forbidden in a free country.

You cannot modify the stuff and then try to redistribute it, any more than you can rewrite a few chapters of you favorite novel and redistribute it.

You can learn from what you have analyzed and build (or write) something new that is informed by that knowledge.

So, I think you are wrong. It is not true that every single fan age that exists is a hack. You're probably wrong about the tools as well. Their authors would know.


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PostPosted: Sun Feb 21, 2010 12:39 pm 
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@Festro: by your definitions of "hack" then Drizzle itself is "not a hack" and seeing that everyone else considers drizzle a hack... well.. funny that.

I don't really care enough to post detailed reasons why all of the above are "hacks" but, suffice to say, they are indeed "hacks". Drizzle itself, is also perfectly legal. =) I'm on very good terms with someone with rather good legal training, although they are not a "lawyer" they very well /could/ be, if they decided to continue. Suffice to say they were awarded with a special award for graduating the top of their class, in their studies. They too agree that Drizzle is perfectly legal. =P

Do so research on the matters at hand, by the by.

Building an age from scratch in blender --- no, not a hack. Making that age work in Uru, very much a hack. Trust me, I've done it, myself. ;)


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PostPosted: Sun Feb 21, 2010 12:54 pm 
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kaelisebonrai wrote:
@Festro: by your definitions of "hack" then Drizzle itself is "not a hack" and seeing that everyone else considers drizzle a hack... well.. funny that.

I don't really care enough to post detailed reasons why all of the above are "hacks" but, suffice to say, they are indeed "hacks". Drizzle itself, is also perfectly legal. =) I'm on very good terms with someone with rather good legal training, although they are not a "lawyer" they very well /could/ be, if they decided to continue. Suffice to say they were awarded with a special award for graduating the top of their class, in their studies. They too agree that Drizzle is perfectly legal. =P

Do so research on the matters at hand, by the by.

Building an age from scratch in blender --- no, not a hack. Making that age work in Uru, very much a hack. Trust me, I've done it, myself. ;)

Making it work in Uru:CC -- no, that's a workaround.

I don't consider Drizzle a hack. You just mentioned your lawyer friend who does not think it is a hack. So, again you are wrong: it is not true that everyone else considers drizzle a hack.

You do not even see that I am attacking your sweeping generalizations. In that light your arrogance ("I don't really care enough ...") looks simply stupid. You are your own worst enemy, friend.


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PostPosted: Sun Feb 21, 2010 1:22 pm 
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Just WOW!

IMO: In this thread many have some strong points.
I really wonder a few things, Moula came more or less without warning.
(did someone fork over a huge amout of bucks to Cyan or something? running URU live takes an
encredible amout of juice to keep up and running. I don't think the Myst Iphone amounted to very much
enuff to wake up URU for very long (caushous optimisem)

Someone said; What happens when MOULa suddenly goes poof! over night? We are all scrued.
I feel the tools or hacks are a NESSISITY (spelling) to the URU community as a whole! WE ARE
MAKING OUR HOME! like what watson said at the end of MOUL, We were left hanging more or less
without any set rules or guildlines to follow for each guild etc. We the New Human D'ni were then let go.

and NOW this 'slap in the face' AGAIN and more waiting , endless waiting with Cyan dangling that darn
carrot infront of our faces every so often. People can only take so much! and so we each did our best
for making/finding that NEW HOME and getting the guilds better orginised etc. (all this for the second time, the
first time was UURU) and everyone knows what happened then, Why do I see history repeating itself yet again?

Cyan promised us TOOLS before GT opened MOUL , Cyan also said (and I thought officaly) they were going to
give URU to its fans as OS. Cyan in the past has encuraged hacking their games like Riven was a big one with lots of hidden
things easter eggs to find in the code etc. and this is only the tip of the iceburg!

I can understand that Cyan wants to be in laymans terms 'The Maker' of this URU human D'ni, as so nothing gets too far right or left field. I think Cyan needs to really take a look at these WONDERFUL TOOLS the New Guilds have come up with.
and prased because WE have made a HOME! just as ordered. and now the cavern is back! WOOT!
BUT WAIT again we are in another famous Cyan waiting game (Cyan you gotta love'em) cause they have
not realesed the code yet, and now are being told we are all been BAD URU fans ie; what chogan said. :(

I would think Cyan would be very happy about all our progresses we have made and in the works etc.
and try to ADD IT IN and a plugin or update or a mixture of code from 'The Maker' and the Guilds, for all to enjoy
The UURU was working! and was snuffed out right as it was beginning really start growing! NOT AGAIN! PLEASE!
for MOULa's sake!

Cyan you planted some very special seeds, those seeds ARE the Guilds!
Town Meeting(s) YES, many and SOON!!!

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PostPosted: Sun Feb 21, 2010 2:15 pm 
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Let me see if I can address some of these issues:


kaelisebonrai wrote:
TOOO: The community has been divided for /years/ long before Drizzle even came out.


And we want to further encourage this division because...?

kaelisebonrai wrote:
On that note, guess what else is a hack? PyPRP. What else is a hack? OfflineKI, what else is a hack? libPlasma. What else is a hack? PlasmaShop. What else is a hack? Every single fan age that exists. What else is a hack Uru Library Manager...


You make it sound like a Free For All: Everybody Else Is Doing It type of logic. Please don't do that.

VoiZod wrote:
Just WOW!

IMO: In this thread many have some strong points.
I really wonder a few things, Moula came more or less without warning.
(did someone fork over a huge amout of bucks to Cyan or something? running URU live takes an
encredible amout of juice to keep up and running. I don't think the Myst Iphone amounted to very much
enuff to wake up URU for very long (caushous optimisem)

Someone said; What happens when MOULa suddenly goes poof! over night? We are all scrued.
I feel the tools or hacks are a NESSISITY (spelling) to the URU community as a whole! WE ARE
MAKING OUR HOME! like what watson said at the end of MOUL, We were left hanging more or less
without any set rules or guildlines to follow for each guild etc. We the New Human D'ni were then let go.

and NOW this 'slap in the face' AGAIN and more waiting , endless waiting with Cyan dangling that darn
carrot infront of our faces every so often. People can only take so much! and so we each did our best
for making/finding that NEW HOME and getting the guilds better orginised etc. (all this for the second time, the
first time was UURU) and everyone knows what happened then, Why do I see history repeating itself yet again?

Cyan promised us TOOLS before GT opened MOUL , Cyan also said (and I thought officaly) they were going to
give URU to its fans as OS. Cyan in the past has encuraged hacking their games like Riven was a big one with lots of hidden things easter eggs to find in the code etc. and this is only the tip of the iceburg!

I can understand that Cyan wants to be in laymans terms 'The Maker' of this URU human D'ni, as so nothing gets too far right or left field. I think Cyan needs to really take a look at these WONDERFUL TOOLS the New Guilds have come up with.
and prased because WE have made a HOME! just as ordered. and now the cavern is back! WOOT!
BUT WAIT again we are in another famous Cyan waiting game (Cyan you gotta love'em) cause they have
not realesed the code yet, and now are being told we are all been BAD URU fans ie; what chogan said. :(

I would think Cyan would be very happy about all our progresses we have made and in the works etc.
and try to ADD IT IN and a plugin or update or a mixture of code from 'The Maker' and the Guilds, for all to enjoy
The UURU was working! and was snuffed out right as it was beginning really start growing! NOT AGAIN! PLEASE!
for MOULa's sake!

Cyan you planted some very special seeds, those seeds ARE the Guilds!
Town Meeting(s) YES, many and SOON!!!


Okay, this is the big one. First of all: Cyan is not the enemy! I hesitate to say "benefactor", when we're the ones sending them the money, but they are the reason we have this community. Yes, there are legitimate issues, and they should be raised. But, we need to work with them - and Cyan ought to let us work with them. So, I agree with you about the Guilds. All I'm saying is that we not be adversarial about it.

Also: finding an Easter Egg is not a hack. It was put there specifically to be found. Granted, I have no legal training, so this is merely a personal opinion, but it seems to me that a hack is a perversion of code: making changes the original code writers never intended. Does that sound about right?

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TOOO 24657
Magical Mystery TOOO 643784
Institution TOOO 816645
Karaoke TOOO 816776

~and featuring~

Murinna (the mermaid) 2484723
Mallina (the other mermaid) 3015052

Second Life: TOOO Fall


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PostPosted: Sun Feb 21, 2010 2:49 pm 
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IMHO Drizzle is a utility program.

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