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PostPosted: Mon Feb 22, 2010 10:14 pm 
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Things that make you say hmm....

anyway: I forget who posted this but I'm quite sure I won't get sued over it..lol


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I don't think Drizzle is eeeeeeeeeeeeeevile, I just don't think it should be used to compete with MOULagain


URU Winter Olympic Games ........Competition..YAY!!! (Chaurura gets out her dictionary to check that spelling of competition...lol looks weird

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PostPosted: Mon Feb 22, 2010 10:30 pm 
I am very glad of the existence of Drizzle. I think it has been vital in keeping Uru alive when Cyan could not, fostering the talents of those who will Write the Ages of OS Uru, and showing us all just what resources of skill and ingenuity we have among us. I'm a big fan.

But. Let me put an analogy to you, just off the top of my head. Someone steals your umbrella. He then uses it to save the life of a baby in a terrible flood incident. Obviously, you aren't going to raise any objections in the circumstances. But...does that mean he didn't steal it? Does that mean that stealing, in some circumstances, is right? Does that mean that when someone else steals your wallet you can't object, because you never know, he might be going to give all that money to the poor? And how would you feel if people around you kept on and on saying these things? A little insecure about your remaining possessions, maybe?

I would never say that what has been done should not have been done. That is for Cyan to say, and they have, in as unthreatening a way as they can. Arguing the point, here in these forums which Cyan reads, simply makes the problem (and it is a problem) harder for them to continue to step around.


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PostPosted: Mon Feb 22, 2010 11:08 pm 
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That argument is slightly flawed though, because you're not taking into account the value of the items. An umbrella is dime a dozen available, ones wallet is slightly different, it contains bank cards, Identities and so forth.

Umbrellas are a mass product commodity, Ages take a lot more effort, they are singular, as does the code that wraps Uru together.


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PostPosted: Mon Feb 22, 2010 11:29 pm 
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So it's ok to steal an umbrella because it is cheaper than a wallet? Thats the weirdest reasoning I ever heard and the police would disagree with you :roll:


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PostPosted: Mon Feb 22, 2010 11:31 pm 
Well, maybe it's an antique hand-made umbrella presented to my grandfather when he was enthroned as Hereditary Panjandrum of the Chateaubriand Islands. :)

The point is that what has been done with Drizzle etc so far has not materially harmed Cyan much, possibly equating to the theft of an umbrella...but it is still something done with their property and against their wishes, and next time it might be their wallet.


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PostPosted: Mon Feb 22, 2010 11:41 pm 
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Let's try a story time here. I feel like writing a story. :D



A person one day makes a wonderful treetop fortress thing for fun and profit. It has all sorts of wonderful things, is a great meeting place for everyone, full of beautiful pictures and artwork and food and drink and such. Everyone wants to visit, but there's only one ladder, and that ladder broke. The person who made the treehouse says "Ah drat. Ok, look, I'm broke, I can't fix the ladder, but I'll do it on my spare time. I REALLY want to show you my treehouse. So just wait."

And then they get caught up in everything else and it doesn't really get fixed. In the meantime someone cobbles together a stepladder, a fw supports, and a scissor jack, and then cuts a few boards of a wall away and builds a door in what used to be a part of the antechamber. Or something. They say "Look! Now we can all get in! We helped!"

The person who made the treetop fortress gets angry.. someone just climbed up and cut a hole and went behind their back. It's THEIR place, and they could kick everyone out if they wanted to. But they want to have the people there... and even if they did make a nice fancy door and make it look like that entrance should be there they weren't told they could. "Hey you!" they shout. "Get rid of that makeshift ladder! I didn't say you could! Now stop going in and wait for me to finish repairing the ladder!"
The people who made the ladder get angry naturally "But you want us in here! Agh!" So then they paint it camouflage and disguise it with leaves and such so it looks like a tree. Everyone knows it's there, but they can pretend it's not anymore.

Finally the person who made the treehouse says "Ok, fine, here are some ladders I made... you can use them for free because I want you all to see my cool treehouse. Sorry I couldn't add more but I'm broke." The people thanked for the ladders, and used them to have all these access points to this treehouse, but since it was there and starting to get old with nothing changed to it, people started to forget about it.

A bit after this had happened, they finally managed to get a ladder installed, and put up a tollbooth. They said "stop using your ladders, use mine that charges a fee, because I promise to use the money to make expansions and repairs! So they did, and all was good. Until the tollbooth was shut down and that ladder broke. As well. At this point the people who had their ladders from before used them with modifications to latch onto the tree (since the special hooks for ladders at the top of the tree was removed when they put up the tollbooth).. but it couldn't let the people in to the special additions since they needed to use the special ladder that was with the tollbooth. However, the people who made the original kludge ladder had found a way to not only tie up rope bridges across to those from their new and improved ladder, but also add stuff from another small treehouse the designer had made to the side (originally intended to be expansions to the main one but unable to when the tollbooth closed, so they set up a guided tour of it). The people with the kludge ladder gave wirecutters and a stepstool to let people using these rope-bridges climb around ignoring the tour.
The designer was annoyed, they said "Don't do that!" They were annoyed because those ladders were sliced up and modified and they hadn't said anyone could do that, even though they'd been given them for free before, and worse the kludge ladder could get in too using another design, get at all that stuff thaty they had to put money and time into building, and could even get at the other tiny treeehouses they'd built (though at least they still had to pay the tour entrance fee even if they marched all over the place). They weren't allowed to do that, and the designer was working on their own replacement ladder, and moreso were working on giving the plans out to everyone so they could work on the treehouse themselves. But it was taking so long, so the people kept their ladders up and just painted them or put signs saying "NOT A LADDER IGNORE THIS" or refused to talk about the ladder. The designer knew the ladders were there and hadn't said they were ok, but in the meantime everyone was pretending they weren't there so they could let it be, since it was sort of underground.


Then finally the person who made the treehouse manages to fix the ladder and lets people in. However, in the interim, the people who made the makeshift ladder started adding expansion wings on other trees, and found a way to support it with giant balloons to make it better, patch up some holes, and the like. Just like with the ladder they weren't told they were allowed to, so the owner goes and rips up their bridge connections, boards over the holes, and says "Stop it! I want to let you build expansions, but you'll have to wait until I'm ready to let you, so I know you'll be using these plans I have made up. Ok?" The people then make their own tiny little treehouse fort using the design of the big massive one, and connect the expansions to it using the rope ladders found out before, but it's too small to fit more than one person at a time. (though there's rumors that they attached connections to that camouflage ladder that may or may not still be there) And they're angry because they were told that the expansions were wanted, and they were going to get permission to but it hasn't come, and they did all this work and they find out it's appreciated really but tear it all down because you'll have to wait for the owner. And it's been years.

And already some of them have wandered off to other forests to build their own treehouses like the giant one, and some have even left for the mountains or valleys or plains to build other structures in the same idea, because they got sick of waiting for years. It's not the builder's fault really, they don't have the time or money to devote attention to this wonderful treefort, and they WANT to give it to everyone, but it's their baby and they don't want these people acting like they own it. And it's not the fault of the others who came, they want to help, they see the builder can't spend time to do this, and they can already do it their own way so why can't they just get permission to do what they've already done? It's not the fault of the people who visit the treehouse, they aren't involved in all of this, and stay to the side, watching what goes on with a bit of bemusement and have passionate fights over which side is right. All they want to do is see the treehouse, though some will say the original designer did it best and the others can't compare, others say we should have the choic, and even others think that new house they built in the forest over there allows all sorts of expansions and everyone should go there (even if some are painted garish colours and follow non-euclidean geometry that hurts the eyes or offends tastes but you can pretend those parts don't exist if you don't like them).


And then here we are, waiting for the hammers, nails, saws, etc to build our own treehouse expansions for the original place and some day the plans so we can fix it up ourselves (it's been slowly falling apart from neglect over the years and the plans are needed to fix the big problems it has), not the new little rope bridges we cobbled together since we apparently can't have those. And we're still told wait years more.. and worse because sure they ARE right in saying they have control over the treehouse and can kick us all out if we don't play, but they also want us up there, so why not just let us do it? And that's where it stands.. a story with no ending yet, but the writers on all sides peering at it and trying to figure out how to let everyone at the treehouse and working at multiple trees and bridges and ladders strewn across, most illegal but wanted and needed, because the original designer still lacks the time/money to spend building the treehouse like everyone (including them) wants.



Or something. what were we talking about again? :shock:
(Edit: To unify posts, and update story. Nice, huh? :P)

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Last edited by Gondar on Tue Feb 23, 2010 1:07 am, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Mon Feb 22, 2010 11:59 pm 
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Paradise wrote:
So it's ok to steal an umbrella because it is cheaper than a wallet? Thats the weirdest reasoning I ever heard and the police would disagree with you :roll:

The legal system (in the US) does scale the consequences for violations to the contents and value of things.

Zero-tolerance, especially in overblown examples like fingernail files considered as weapons and kindergartners treated as criminals in schools, is widely derided.

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PostPosted: Tue Feb 23, 2010 12:11 am 
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Great post Gondar !

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PostPosted: Tue Feb 23, 2010 12:29 am 
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Gondar just summarised the past 6 years with near dead accuracy. Almost as fun to read as A Child Called Uru (note that the last scene hasn't fully played out yet).

*thumbsup* :D


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PostPosted: Tue Feb 23, 2010 12:35 am 
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(Don't mind me, blended it back into the original story.. but this post is still an applicable reply I guess. Still, EDIT AHOY!)

Thanks!
It might not be the greatest or most accurate tale, but it's just a story after all.. right? :wink:


I just hope people who love the treehouses here learn that they'll need to do something soon, all of them makers and users alike, because people can't wait forever. :?

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PostPosted: Tue Feb 23, 2010 3:11 am 
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Paradise wrote:
So it's ok to steal an umbrella because it is cheaper than a wallet? Thats the weirdest reasoning I ever heard and the police would disagree with you :roll:


Yes, because that is exactly what I said.


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PostPosted: Tue Feb 23, 2010 3:16 am 
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Jamey wrote:
mszv wrote:
Jamey, Tomala and Tweek are joking. One way to tell is by the extreme language in the posts, also the humor thing.

It is hard to tell sometimes, as some members here have said similar things, in all seriousness, and they weren't joking.


Sorry mszv, I failed to see humor in any of this. What I saw was a thought-out post given by Nalates, and then I saw what I believe was mockery using images to portray extreme behavior, which did not accurately represent Nalates' perspective.

I'm still unsure whether it was done to simply create drama, sarcasm, or perhaps both. I may be wrong about this, but every fiber of me is telling me I'm right. I do still believe it was unnecessary.


Wow, this deeply touches me. I apologize for exceeding your low expectations of me. I'll try harder next time. :lol:

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PostPosted: Tue Feb 23, 2010 3:41 am 
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Jamey wrote:

Sorry mszv, I failed to see humor in any of this. What I saw was a thought-out post given by Nalates, and then I saw what I believe was mockery using images to portray extreme behavior, which did not accurately represent Nalates' perspective.

I'm still unsure whether it was done to simply create drama, sarcasm, or perhaps both. I may be wrong about this, but every fiber of me is telling me I'm right. I do still believe it was unnecessary.


Jamey,

Just because you don't have a personality (probably due to being a sock puppet), doesn't mean you have to read into others jokes what is obviously not there. Kinda like your believability, it's simply not there.

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PostPosted: Tue Feb 23, 2010 4:03 am 
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